Might Windows 7 be a threat to MacOS X?

[laclists]

Hi,

I've reviewed the new functionalities in Windows 7 and it seemed to me, who am not an OS X developer, that it's far ahead on hand writing and drawing recognition than MacOS. One thing that I enjoyed was the capability to write an equation on a tablet and have it converted to a MS Equation object.

It seems to me that Apple is overdue to introduce a tablet-like product. As MacOS is experiencing a large market share with College students, and as I'm yet to find a good OS X replacement for MS OneNote, I think the appeal of these MS technologies for college students, specially for engineering and sciences, is huge. I think that Apple is about to loose market should MacOS X be unable to offer a similar usability.

I'm a Mac fan, but should I still be in college, I'd rather have an Windows tablet running OneNote than a mac. With the new equation recognition and basic drawing recognition, it would have made my life a lot easier than it was back on those days...

What do you guys think? For the developers in the audience, how far is Apple from Windows 7 on these topics?

Thanks,
Lac.
(PS: Sorry if my english is poor, I'm not a native speaker)

 

[miles01110]

Comparing OS X and Windows 7 solely on the basis of handwriting recognition is like saying the United States is a horrible country just because New Jersey is a dump.

It might be a "threat" in the sense that Windows 7 could adapt to the tablet market more easily, but that's not really the big picture.

Also, equation recognition is going to have to get really good before it will approach the accuracy one gets from typesetting applications like Equation Editor or the LaTeX language.

 

[borcanm]

According to Google the number of searches for Snow Leopard is practically non existent compared to those for windows 7.

http://gizmodo.com/5272999/windows-7-kills-snow-leopard-and-eats-it

 

[NathanCH]

I don't think consumers care about that at all. They're not going to base a purchase off such a small thing that chances are they wont even understand. Windows 7 is a threat because the press has given it good reviews.

 

[nefan65]

The problem with all the hype, and reviews, is that it's comparing a new, BETA OS [Win 7]against an existing [OS X/10.5.x] OS. Until Snow Leopard comes out, no one will really know how much better either is over the other, IMHO.

Based on using Win 7 RC, and 10.5.7, I still give the nod to OS X. And no, I'm not being a fanboy or homer. I'm going specifically on functionality, and use. I just don't see the hype of Win 7, or how it's X times better than OS X.

Based on the RC, the cost to upgrade, and the aggravation, I think many businesses will continue on the XP path. Consumer's? Who knows...they can be lemmings at times.

 

[Matek]

How can Windows be a threat to Mac OS? It's saying a bear can be a threat to a mouse. Windows has a very large market share, it can either be threatened by other, much less popular OSes (Linux/OS X) or remain dominant.

 

[Corrosive vinyl]

In time windows 7 might take over where XP is, but it will be difficult, especially after the whole Vista fiasco. If it is as good as the beta or hopefully better, then it will definitely catch on faster and easier. Also, as nefan has said, why spend thousands of dollars on the new thing when businesses already have the de facto standard with no effort. It will take a few years at least for the new OS to spread to nearly all PCs. Think of how many mac users are not using 10.5.

 

[SchneiderMan]

I really didnt like win 7, yes its a little better then vista and with less crashes but it still is not better then os x. not at all.

 

[maflynn]

No more of a threat then XP or Vista.
The problem with windows is that its bloated still has security issues, tons of viruses and you need to constantly prove you didn't steal your copy of windows (MS's assurance program)

OSX, you have a great interface that's well thought out, pretty consistent, not too bloated (at least compared to windows) and applications that much more tightly integrated with each other.

 

[elgrecomac]

And....

I don't think consumers care about that at all. They're not going to base a purchase off such a small thing that chances are they wont even understand. Windows 7 is a threat because the press has given it good reviews.

So have many, many OSX users given it good reviews. Just check out the window sub-forum on Macrumors. It IS a good OS. It is stable, easy to use...finally, fast...very fast, is a great gaming platform, it is much improved on all fronts and is the OS MS should have released instead of Vista. I am running it under Fusion as well as on 3 year old Sony Vaio with 1gb of ram. The biggest issues I seen on this board are driver issues under Bootcamp but I feel confident in saying that this is not MS' target market.

Is it a thread? Well, with MS controlling 90% of the market, the more apt question is

"Will OSX , in any flavor, gain market share on Windows?"

The answer will be decided by the large corporate owners of Windows throughout the world who do the majority of purchases of desktop and server operating systems. Remember, they are the ones who told MS to shove it with regards to Vista and forced MS to keep XP around for so long. If they don't buy Win 7, then the OS world could change in a major way.

My prediction: Win 7 will be a huge hit and will pose a massive threat to Apple's 8% market share in the desktop world. I know this is tantamount to sacrilege on this board but it is my honest opinion after evaluating the product for several months.



-----------
MBP 17", 4gb RAM, 5TB storage, 30" ACD

 

[patrick0brien]

hand writing and drawing recognition than MacOS.

One thing that I enjoyed was the capability to write an equation on a tablet and have it converted to a MS Equation object.

I can't speak to equation translation, but OSX has handwriting recognition built in. Has been since, oh, 10.1 (I think). It only enables itself if you have a tablet attached (which I theory the ModBook allows too). The feature is called Inkwell.

It seems to me that Apple is overdue to introduce a tablet-like product.

The market for needing a tablet is very very small. But we'll see if Apple can find a way to build something that'll sell better, though I doubt it'll have a sylus. They tried that once, didn't work out very well, despite the device being pretty cool.

EDIT: As for Windows 7, I'm sure it'll be an improvement, but until they throw out what hey have and build a True OS, I'll treat it gently. Clarification: True OS defined here as something build to support multiple users, over distance, securely. Not something which is a hardware interface, which Windows still technically is, despite being extended as far as it has.

It's inflammatorily worded, but makes an excellent point: Rixstep "Can't Take a Punch"

 

[The General]

It might reduce the number of people switching from PC to Mac, but it's a lot tougher to get someone to switch from Mac to PC than from PC to Mac.

 

[Enigmafan420]

Based on the RC, the cost to upgrade, and the aggravation, I think many businesses will continue on the XP path. Consumer's? Who knows...they can be lemmings at times.

The problem with Windows is that Microsoft FORCES consumers to upgrade. They simply quit allowing OEMs (Like HP and Dell) to install anything but the latest OS version.

And people accuse Apple of being monopolistic towards iTunes. At least they are not forcing anyone to use iTunes.

 

[Mal]

The problem with Windows is that Microsoft FORCES consumers to upgrade. They simply quit allowing OEMs (Like HP and Dell) to install anything but the latest OS version.

And people accuse Apple of being monopolistic towards iTunes. At least they are not forcing anyone to use iTunes.

To be fair, Apple has no OEM's, and they also only sell computers with the latest OS. Microsoft isn't forcing people who already have a computer to upgrade the OS on that computer (neither does Apple), so they're not much different in that regard. Of course, Microsoft generally doesn't make the OS as backwards compatible, or at least they didn't with Vista, so they're actually somewhat less likely to get customer's to upgrade their current machine, but any time you buy a new computer, it's likely to have a newer OS than what you had, so long as you bought the computer ~3 years prior or earlier, which is common.

jW

 

[Enigmafan420]

To be fair, Apple has no OEM's, and they also only sell computers with the latest OS. Microsoft isn't forcing people who already have a computer to upgrade the OS on that computer (neither does Apple), so they're not much different in that regard. Of course, Microsoft generally doesn't make the OS as backwards compatible, or at least they didn't with Vista, so they're actually somewhat less likely to get customer's to upgrade their current machine, but any time you buy a new computer, it's likely to have a newer OS than what you had, so long as you bought the computer ~3 years prior or earlier, which is common.

jW

You are of course correct, but MS does not make hardware. They should NOT be allowed to dictate to hardware OEMs what they can and can't install on computers that they otherwise have NO INTEREST IN.

This is what got MS into trouble with Dept. of Justice and the European Union. Requiring OEMs to include IE when it was a piece of junk put Netscape out of business. OEMs were threatened with NOT BEING ABLE to purchase OS software from MS if they did not comply.

By requiring OEMs to install only the latest version, they are forcing its purchase. And then counting those purchases as "sales". They are hardly the same thing as a retail box sale. And, Apple has sold close to 80% of its existing OS 10.4 and earlier users a version of 10.5.X. This is a true sale.

Apple only sells computers with the latest version of OS because it is a HARDWARE vendor. MS is not, but exterts pressures on OEMs as if it were.

 

[Jethryn Freyman]

So have many, many OSX users given it good reviews. Just check out the window sub-forum on Macrumors. It IS a good OS. It is stable, easy to use...finally, fast...very fast, is a great gaming platform,

So is Windows XP, really. It's not that bad, apart from security.

Windows 7 isn't a threat to OS X, it's basically a polished, refined Vista. It might stop some Windows users coming over to OS X, but it won't make Mac users go back to Windows.

 

[NT1440]

People do not care that much about tablet computers.

 

[dbwie]

It might reduce the number of people switching from PC to Mac, but it's a lot tougher to get someone to switch from Mac to PC than from PC to Mac.

+1. It may reduce switchers to Mac, but probably not increase Mac to PC switchers.

 

[thunderweb]

People do not care that much about tablet computers.

Until Apple releases one and then it'll be all the hype.

 

[contoursvt]

I'm not sure if I agree.\

Look at windows 2000. Its 9 years old and it still receives some updates and tons of new software still run on it. Look at XP. Its like 7 years old and the same goes.

Now think about a version of OSX thats 7 or 9 years old. Does anything brand new even run on it anymore? I mean think of 10.1 or 10.2. The majority of software want at least 10.4.

IMO forced obsolescence causing people to upgrade happens more with Apple.

The problem with Windows is that Microsoft FORCES consumers to upgrade. They simply quit allowing OEMs (Like HP and Dell) to install anything but the latest OS version.

And people accuse Apple of being monopolistic towards iTunes. At least they are not forcing anyone to use iTunes.

No of course not. I'm sure all of our sales team have not requested their next notebook to be a tablet or anything.... Also the VP and Presidents got tablets 3 years ago and just upgraded to new ones but i'm sure it was by accident

Maybe people who use the computer to tinker with at home dont care much for it but many businesses buy tablets.

People do not care that much about tablet computers.

 

[thunderweb]

I'm not sure if I agree.\

Look at windows 2000. Its 9 years old and it still receives some updates and tons of new software still run on it. Look at XP. Its like 7 years old and the same goes.

Now think about a version of OSX thats 7 or 9 years old. Does anything brand new even run on it anymore? I mean think of 10.1 or 10.2. The majority of software want at least 10.4.

IMO forced obsolescence causing people to upgrade happens more with Apple.

Lol it's funny you say that, if you were to find a PC running 2000 it would most likely be crapped out. Windows' planned obsolescence plan is just to make software that will die before before you need to upgrade.

 

[contoursvt]

You can still get OEM machines with XP even though Vista has been out for 2 years. I dont see how MS forces OEMs to go for the latest.

If an OEM contacted Adobe today and said they want CS2 instead of CS4 to be included with the computer, do you think they would do it? No. They'd offer their latest product so hows it any different with MS offering their latest as their preference. I mean its even nice of them to offer the older still.... Also when XP was out, you could still buy 2K if you wanted or get OEM licenses.

You are of course correct, but MS does not make hardware. They should NOT be allowed to dictate to hardware OEMs what they can and can't install on computers that they otherwise have NO INTEREST IN.

This is what got MS into trouble with Dept. of Justice and the European Union. Requiring OEMs to include IE when it was a piece of junk put Netscape out of business. OEMs were threatened with NOT BEING ABLE to purchase OS software from MS if they did not comply.

By requiring OEMs to install only the latest version, they are forcing its purchase. And then counting those purchases as "sales". They are hardly the same thing as a retail box sale. And, Apple has sold close to 80% of its existing OS 10.4 and earlier users a version of 10.5.X. This is a true sale.

Apple only sells computers with the latest version of OS because it is a HARDWARE vendor. MS is not, but exterts pressures on OEMs as if it were.

I'll tell that to the many servers at work, my old PIII box which runs my server at home, our PC at work that handles the phone system voice mail and the many PCs in the shipping department. I'll remind them they should have been dead years ago.

Lol it's funny you say that, if you were to find a PC running 2000 it would most likely be crapped out. Windows' planned obsolescence plan is just to make software that will die before before you need to upgrade.

 

[Mal]

You are of course correct, but MS does not make hardware. They should NOT be allowed to dictate to hardware OEMs what they can and can't install on computers that they otherwise have NO INTEREST IN.

This is what got MS into trouble with Dept. of Justice and the European Union. Requiring OEMs to include IE when it was a piece of junk put Netscape out of business. OEMs were threatened with NOT BEING ABLE to purchase OS software from MS if they did not comply.

By requiring OEMs to install only the latest version, they are forcing its purchase. And then counting those purchases as "sales". They are hardly the same thing as a retail box sale. And, Apple has sold close to 80% of its existing OS 10.4 and earlier users a version of 10.5.X. This is a true sale.

Apple only sells computers with the latest version of OS because it is a HARDWARE vendor. MS is not, but exterts pressures on OEMs as if it were.

Valid point, but...

You can still get OEM machines with XP even though Vista has been out for 2 years. I dont see how MS forces OEMs to go for the latest.

If an OEM contacted Adobe today and said they want CS2 instead of CS4 to be included with the computer, do you think they would do it? No. They'd offer their latest product so hows it any different with MS offering their latest as their preference. I mean its even nice of them to offer the older still.... Also when XP was out, you could still buy 2K if you wanted or get OEM licenses.

I want to clarify, btw, I think Microsoft has a lot of bad practices and I can't stand them. This, however, is not a good point to use against them, because it's simply not true.

jW

 

[contoursvt]

Do you mean what I said was not true or the previous person's comment because we just purchases some brande new core2 duo laptops with XP right from HP

Valid point, but...



I want to clarify, btw, I think Microsoft has a lot of bad practices and I can't stand them. This, however, is not a good point to use against them, because it's simply not true.

jW

 

[MikhailT]

A threat to what exactly? Apple's Marketshare? Apple makes a majority of money (other than iPhone/iPod) from Mac hardware, not OSX. Any Windows is a threat to Apple's Mac hardware sales, not just W7.

Vista may have convinced some people to switch to the Macs because of its crappiness which gives Apple some ammunition against Vista. If Windows 7 is an excellent OS, compare W7 to Vista or XP but not Leopard, then people have no negatives for the Windows when comparing to Apple.

Unfortunately, Apple's remaining positives over Windows will continue to decline over time as Windows continue to get more secure and better and that's just now, it can easily change once Apple starts adding more features in OS X 10.7.

Remember that once PCs starts to copy Apple's quality of hardware, eventually Apple will lose on that front as well. Look at how Dell has been changing the design of their laptops, especially MSI. Their laptops are mirroring Apple's design now. If MSI sells their "Air" lookalike for half the price of Apple's and it has an excellent OS running on top of it, Windows 7 or XP, what can we say to average consumers why they should still buy Apple's stuff? The security issues is decreasing for Microsoft over time as well, it is more secure than ever. My family members who were running Vista and W7 RC (I installed it for them), hasn't had any viruses or security issues in months and yet a few members who had XP got viruses and I had to fix their crap.