Mini DisplayPort to Be Adopted as Part of Official Spec

[matticus008]

I suppose that is only one notebook line and not necessarily the port, as I said I'm pretty ignorant on the subject, but trying to learn.

Right. At the moment, no one makes a video subsystem for notebooks that can access the audio, and the supporting functionality for that to happen has to come from the system chipset vendors. Intel has, as I mentioned, committed to release a DisplayPort-with-audio-compatible chipset for notebooks in 2H 2009.

Isn't the key difference DisplayPort can be used for a Display of any resolution, format or bit depth with frame rate limited to bandwidth.

It's not quite that simple. There are absolute limits, other than signal clock and bandwidth, that affect the video modes that DisplayPort can carry. Generally speaking, however, you are correct that the packet-based model offers much more flexibility.

HDMI is limited to the configurations it supports sure it supports all the common media ones. It's to limiting to use for computer displays. It's like the difference between VGA and DVI-D.

It's not like that at all. The difference between VGA and DVI was a switch to digital signals and a bandwidth increase. Both were intended for computer displays. HDMI and DisplayPort, on the other hand, is the difference between cable television and IPTV (Fios, Uverse). Packet-based models have a lot of promise, and one day will become the norm, but it's not quite there yet. As of today, HDMI would impose no real limits on display use. Its limits lie in the future (and not all that immediate, DisplayPort propaganda aside).

 

[Stephen123]

DisplayPort can carry HDMI signals. So it can carry the audio.

MiniDisplayPort has all the same wires.

Apple just doesn't support the audio on this generation of notebooks.

 

[Scottsdale]

This really worked out for all of us, maybe... I sure hope the industry goes with it like dvi. Would be great to have non-Apple alternatives to cinema displays. For all of us MB unibody owners, it is potentially good news.

 

[FoxyKaye]

What I really want is a signed document from Apple swearing that they're no longer going to require three more different kinds of adapters in the next two years just to get a damn VGA output from their laptops. In the past four years I've needed to acquire MiniVGA-->VGA, MiniDVI-->VGA, DVI-->VGA, and now Mini DisplayPort-->VGA.

At $20+ per adapter, they've also got a heck of a nerve charging that much for two pieces of plastic and some wire. Third-party adapters aren't that much cheaper either, since Apple has set the price point so high.

 

[n8236]

About ***** time, I need both the dvi and vga cables from eBay for like 3 bux, not 30 bux.

 

[Peace]

Ok, after looking it up DisplayPort carries audio, but mini DisplayPort doesn't, so I sure hope they got for full DisplayPort on the new Mac Minis.

Edit: to get audio from mini DisplayPort to HDMI you'd have to have "a Mini DisplayPort to DVI adapter, a Mini-TOSLINK (jack) to TOSLINK adapter, a Toslink cable, a DVI+TOSLINK to HDMI converter, and another HDMI cable (to connect the converter and the AV receiver)" is what wikipedia says

All you need is a mini-display port to HDMI adapter ( one is coming out any time now ) and a toslink cable. Connect the displayport cable to the HDMI then connect that to the TV. You then have the HD video. Then connect the toslink out from the Mac to a home theatre system and you have the sound.

 

[Mackan]

DisplayPort can carry HDMI signals. So it can carry the audio.

MiniDisplayPort has all the same wires.

Apple just doesn't support the audio on this generation of notebooks.

Apple just wants you to buy a new notebook this summer, when they have updated them with audio, right? Yeah, seen this business and practice before... stinks.

 

[Minimoose 360]

That's great...when do I get my mDP -> HDMI cable??

 

[Krevnik]

Isn't the key difference DisplayPort can be used for a Display of any resolution, format or bit depth with frame rate limited to bandwidth.

HDMI is limited to the configurations it supports sure it supports all the common media ones. It's to limiting to use for computer displays. It's like the difference between VGA and DVI-D.

Finally someone points this out.

HDMI currently doesn't support dual-link DVI, and basically caps out at 1920x1200 or so. Larger, higher-density displays above 24" simply won't work over HDMI right now.

HDMI focuses on solving problems for home theater going into the HD realm. DisplayPort focuses on solving problems for the current pro-users of computer hardware.

Unless you get someone to create some uber-spec and sink a decade of time, effort and money into it, then the odds of the home theater industry and the computer industry getting their specs in sync are near zero.

 

[dbwie]

what about...

Not sure if this is technically feasible, but given that the connector is so small, could Apple incorporate a mini displayport into the iPhone? I envision connnecting an iPhone directly to a projector to display presentations in Keynote, or wanting to display photos or movies on a bigger screen, etc. I'm guessing that it would require horsepower and battery life that is not possible on an iPhone in the near future?

This would make the iPhone more and more like a mini-laptop.

 

[VoR]

Finally someone points this out.

HDMI currently doesn't support dual-link DVI, and basically caps out at 1920x1200 or so. Larger, higher-density displays above 24" simply won't work over HDMI right now.

HDMI focuses on solving problems for home theater going into the HD realm. DisplayPort focuses on solving problems for the current pro-users of computer hardware.

Unless you get someone to create some uber-spec and sink a decade of time, effort and money into it, then the odds of the home theater industry and the computer industry getting their specs in sync are near zero.

HDMI does support screens above 24", even their site says it supports 2560x1600. Afaik hdmi supports 12bit xvycc colour, dolby truehd and dts hd while display port doesn't.
They're all just pieces of copper wire with a rated spec for whatever crazy standard they've dreamt up at the time - I'm sure it would be 'easy' to create an 'uber-spec' like you said, but I'm not sure that's what they want

 

[AidenShaw]

You have *some* of the sound

All you need is a mini-display port to HDMI adapter ( one is coming out any time now ) and a toslink cable. Connect the displayport cable to the HDMI then connect that to the TV. You then have the HD video. Then connect the toslink out from the Mac to a home theatre system and you have the sound.

TOSLINK doesn't have the audio bandwidth of HDMI - you're limited to 5.1 compressed audio.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus about downmixing for TOSLINK and S/PDIF.

 

[nick9191]

If Mini DisplayPort can do everything DisplayPort can do then why not just drop DisplayPort?

Just asking.

 

[AidenShaw]

If Mini DisplayPort can do everything DisplayPort can do then why not just drop DisplayPort?

Just asking.

Standard DisplayPort connectors support a locking mechanism, so that they're much less likely to fall out accidentally.

This is useful behind a mini-tower, for example, so that the cable doesn't fall out if you move the box a bit.

See the button on top of the DisplayPort end:

 

[Umbongo]

If Mini DisplayPort can do everything DisplayPort can do then why not just drop DisplayPort?

Just asking.

Because while Apple's licensing is free it is still licensing. Apple still maintains some level of control and they can choose who they license it to. That might not mean much now, but it could in the future if Mini DP was widely accepted by manufacturers.

 

[AidenShaw]

not so

Because while Apple's licensing is free it is still licensing. Apple still maintains some level of control and they can choose who they license it to. That might not mean much now, but it could in the future if Mini DP was widely accepted by manufacturers.

Apple's license says that its license terminates if VESA publishes a conforming Mini DisplayPort standard.

Section 10, pages 4-5 http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/pdf/MiniDisplayPortEval.pdf

So, in the future, when VESA publishes the standard, VESA controls the standard and Apple's terms no longer apply.

 

[Umbongo]

Apple's license says that its license terminates if VESA publishes a conforming Mini DisplayPort standard.

Section 10, pages 4-5 http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/pdf/MiniDisplayPortEval.pdf

So, in the future, when VESA publishes the standard, VESA controls the standard and Apple's terms no longer apply.

So from a technical standpoint the only reason to go with DisplayPort is for the locking mechanism?

 

[stocke2]

Standard DisplayPort connectors support a locking mechanism, so that they're much less likely to fall out accidentally.

This is useful behind a mini-tower, for example, so that the cable doesn't fall out if you move the box a bit.

See the button on top of the DisplayPort end:

you should find a better picture, that one is confusing because it shows the DVI end of the adapter and may confuse some people the locking mechanism for the display port side is actually the button on top

 

[AidenShaw]

you should find a better picture, that one is confusing because it shows the DVI end of the adapter and may confuse some people the locking mechanism for the display port side is actually the button on top

That's why I said "See the button on top of the DisplayPort end" - it will only confuse those who can't read.

By the way, your message would be less confusing if you used capitalization and punctuation.

 

[Stephen123]

Not sure if this is technically feasible, but given that the connector is so small, could Apple incorporate a mini displayport into the iPhone? I envision connnecting an iPhone directly to a projector to display presentations in Keynote, or wanting to display photos or movies on a bigger screen, etc. I'm guessing that it would require horsepower and battery life that is not possible on an iPhone in the near future?

This would make the iPhone more and more like a mini-laptop.

Dock connector is 3mm. Audio jack is 3.5mm. USB and Mini DisplayPort are 4.5mm. DisplayPort seems more likely for a dock than on the iPhone itself.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I thought DisplayPort was capable of carrying audio also.

DisplayPort can, but Apple's implementation does not. Yet.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Not sure if this is technically feasible, but given that the connector is so small, could Apple incorporate a mini displayport into the iPhone? I envision connnecting an iPhone directly to a projector to display presentations in Keynote, or wanting to display photos or movies on a bigger screen, etc. I'm guessing that it would require horsepower and battery life that is not possible on an iPhone in the near future?

This would make the iPhone more and more like a mini-laptop.

If they did that it would probably be in the form of a cable with the iPhone's proprietary dock connector on one end and MDP on the other, sort of like the component/composite cables available now. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Ted13]

Because it would required to license the latest and great audio formats. To carry the new audio signals it would require a license from those companies. If Apple continued to offer it it for free it would have to pay those companies for each license they sold with the MDP. I don't think its a step backwards but an alternative to HDMI. Its taken 2.5 product cycles to get HDMI to be able to support 7 channel bitstream. I forsee many receivers in the very near future dumping so many connections to help keep costs and MSRP in check. Adding another digital port may be worth wihile.

I suspect that the proprietary (with fee) audio codecs will die an ignominious death. I suspect that Display Port (like TOSlink ) can carry uncompressed PCM audio? Don't want to open a can of worms but the difference of quality between PCM and "HD" audio is not worth anything.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Supporting DTS-HD and TrueHD to me = waste of money.

Most Blu-ray players simply convert to PCM before sending to the receiver which actually makes sense because you can mix other non HD audio signals into the path.

Sending bitstream DTS-HD and TrueHD means now your Receiver has to manage any non HD signals. I have yet to see any advantage to sending HD Audio native to your Receiver.

DisplayPort supports 8 channels of LPCM audio which is free as in free beer. With the bandwidth advantage of DP we really don't have to worry about licensing expensive compression solutions from Dolby and DTS. Good riddance!

 

[AidenShaw]

TOSLINK is lower bandwidth than HDMI

I suspect that the proprietary (with fee) audio codecs will die an ignominious death. I suspect that Display Port (like TOSlink ) can carry uncompressed PCM audio? Don't want to open a can of worms but the difference of quality between PCM and "HD" audio is not worth anything.

It was designed for 1X CD audio. It doesn't have the headroom to handle 6.1 or 7.1 uncompressed.