Mini-LED: What it Means for Apple and MacBooks and iPads

[redneckitengineer]

Too expensive to use OLED....how much are the Apple Pro wheels again? I have the 4k OLED touchscreen in my Lenovo X1 Extreme Gen 2 with i9, 64Gb of RAM, and 2TB of storage and I'm still nowhere near the pricing of some of Apple's less innovative laptops.

 

[chucker23n1]

I just wish Apple was going straight to OLED for the iPad, rather than mini-LED. Samsung tablets have had OLED for years and at lower price points, so I don't know why Apple can't do it. There shouldn't be any more risk for burn-in than it is for the iPhone.

The target audience for Samsung tablets is mainly consumption. That’s not how Apple is positioning iPads.

Once content creation comes into play, contrast matters less than accuracy, and while the colors on an LCD “pop” less, they are also more accurate. That, I presume, is why iPads and Macs don’t have OLED and some iPhones (where creation plays a smaller role) do.

 

[nylonsteel]

good article
wanted to know more abot these mini led thingies

 

[AppleTO]

I just wish they would offer the iPad Pro with an OLED display... Watching anything, especially in the dark, would look a lot better.

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

Are we really not going to say it? The title of this article spells it out based on Apple's history of late. Here's what to expect.... "Users report issues with new MLED screens. Causing flickering, dead pixels, odd lines, and whatever else." Apple will then deny any issue for two-years. Lawsuits will be threatened or filed. Finally Apple will "expand" Apple Care coverage for affected model years.
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Mini LED is not as good as OLED, far from it. Take a look at Rting's comparison of TCL Q825 (mini LED TV) vs. LG C9 (OLED TV).

	TCL Q825 (mini LED)	LG C9 (OLED
Mixed Usage	8.2	9.0
Movies	8.4	9.3
TV Shows	7.9	8.5
Sports	7.9	8.8
Video Games	8.6	9.4
HDR Movies	8.5	9.0
HDR Gaming	8.5	9.1
PC Monitor	8.5	8.9

Mini LED offers high peak brightness, but OLED is superior at almost everything else (permanent burn in risk notwithstanding of course).

Micro LED should be better overall than OLED though, and without permanent burn in risk.

Yes. Everyone needs to understand MLED is not the same image as OLED. It's GOOD, but not what OLED can offer. With MLED you will not be getting true black. You will also possibly see "haloing" around your mouse pointer. Yes, even with MLED. We have that already though, so whatever. Still, MLED does not have the ghosting and burn-in issues that really are an issue for OLED. No one keeps their computers long enough for the organic decay of modern OLEDs to be an issue. So that's moot. My 2016 LG OLED still looks amazing. I look forward to MLED and WIFI6. I might finally convince myself to buy a new MBP. Also, MICRO LED could ultimately be the tech to de-throne OLED. It's still a ways out for mainstream use though.

 

[decypher44]

Is this supposed to be some kind of burn towards people affected by PWM?

I don’t know. Is it? Was yours a burn toward those who suffer from gluten? Hard to tell.

#lightenupfrancis

 

[Brien]

Are we really not going to say it? The title of this article spells it out based on Apple's history of late. Here's what to expect.... "Users report issues with new MLED screens. Causing flickering, dead pixels, odd lines, and whatever else." Apple will then deny any issue for two-years. Lawsuits will be threatened or filed. Finally Apple will "expand" Apple Care coverage for affected model years.
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Yes. Everyone needs to understand MLED is not the same image as OLED. It's GOOD, but not what OLED can offer. With MLED you will not be getting true black. You will also possibly see "haloing" around your mouse pointer. Yes, even with MLED. We have that already though, so whatever. Still, MLED does not have the ghosting and burn-in issues that really are an issue for OLED. No one keeps their computers long enough for the organic decay of modern OLEDs to be an issue. So that's moot. My 2016 LG OLED still looks amazing. I look forward to MLED and WIFI6. I might finally convince myself to buy a new MBP. Also, MICRO LED could ultimately be the tech to de-throne OLED. It's still a ways out for mainstream use though.

Is mini LED a new name for FALD LCD?

 

[morjesta]

Just gimme that damn 11” iPad Pro with mini-LED.


Micro-LED more expensive? Well, I guess you could say that since it isn’t really cheap enough for mass production yet, whereas mass-produced OLED has been around for many years.

Put it this way: Some analysts expect that micro-LED will represent less than 0.5% of display panel sales in... wait for it... 2026!

So lets expect more expensive screen replacements... *sigh*

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

I always find it amusing that articles (such as this) always tout the mantra that OLED screens are superior to LCD screens and never mention the Godzilla in the room aka PWM.

OLED isn't better for everyone. For some it's a disaster

PWM is the one thing, the messed up dot matrix the other... OLED isn't using an RGB matrix because of the blue pixel issue. This, imho, greatly sucks for monitors unless they are super high DPI (=reason why iPhones with OLED have higher pixel density than LCD). Under the bottom line: at the same DPI OLED greatly lacks sharpness.
IMHO OLED was a flawed technology from the beginning. Would the same amount of money have been invested into µLED technology it would probably be market ready a year ago...

Only four stars for a display that has perfect blacks lol. The whole table screams "Paid By Samsung."

Agree, but I guess the reason they gave only 4 stars is due to lack of brightness in that comparison, which makes sense in that context.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

Price is one barrier, but OLED can be susceptible to "burn in" when displaying a static image at high light levels over a longer period of time. Since many macOS screen elements are rather stationary (Dock icons, menu bars and icons, etc.) there can be a risk that these elements will experience first short-term and then long-term retention ("burn in").

There are ways to help alleviate this - my LG OLED TV for example shifts all the pixels around slightly to prevent "channel bugs" (the icons in the lower corner that identify a channel) from burning in. But if microLED can be commercially ready within the next five years or so, it would arguably be better to wait since microLED does not have image retention or "burn in" issues as I understand it.

I'm curious if anyone has had experience with the Windows machines which came out with OLED last year, like the 15" Dell XPS. Reviews were kind of mixed at the time. It was aimed at the creative crowd, suggesting it was good for content creators with Adobe products. How did that technology fair in real-world use over time?

PC makers tend to get into these spec races, releasing newer tech as fast as they can, but I've come to realize they just don't keep up with integrating them (drivers-wise) as well as Apple does.

Apple is very, very careful about how they position products. They want every new iteration of the product to be "better" than the older model, but they also position their products so as to be usable for longer than equivalent Windows machines. I have found this to be mostly true. (The 2015" MBPro with Iris Graphics I'm using stays incredibly cool and silent with multiple windows open, which is impressing me. My 2018 Dell XPS 13" would start roaring like a jet engine when pushed.)

If you buy an iPadPro or MacBookPro now, Apple intends that you should be able to use it for professional work well into the future. Even if they'll always tease you with something "better" year after year.

There are a few bumps. The 2019 MacBookPros are extremely similar to the low-level 2020 MacBookPros, except for the hated keyboard, which will drop the value of the 2019 models considerably compared to 2020.

 

[DeepIn2U]

RIP BIG

I thought Mo Money Mo problems was from that movie with one of the Wayans bro’s. You know that 90’s flick when the girl was kicked out in the morning with a “fire”?! Lol.

 

[name99]

How come my giant (208) LG 55” TV is OLED and shows great contrast, and current macs and iPads do not?

Probably because neither current Macs nor current iPads ARE OLED???

 

[EdT]

Only the gluten-free models will have zero PWM.

I ran the numbers through my Retro-Encabulator and it says that the marzelplane variance is acceptable.

 

[Stuey3D]

Looks like I’m going to have to wait for an A17 equipped iPhone SE in an iPhone 11 body with an LCD screen, unless Apple get an OLED without PWM like some of the other manufacturers are trying to do.

When I had an iPhone X that thing gave me migraines, and even the first day when I was setting up my Apple Watch I had a migraine but since it’s has been ok as I don’t look at it as much as I do my phone.

Oddly looking at Rtings website the OLED TV’s don’t use PWM so I wonder why phones use it, I guess maybe because they have to go dimmer than a TV.

I’m not anti OLED as the iPhone X had a beautiful display when it wasn’t torturing me, but the iPhone XR and the 11 which I have had subsequently have been much better for me personally.

 

[UltimateSyn]

ARM, ProMotion and mini-LED -> I buy a new MBP

 

[simonmet]

I think it’s inexcusable that the quality of MacBook panels hasn’t even reached the 10.5” iPad Pro. That looks higher quality than the 16” iPad Pro to my eyes. ProMotion is also much nicer in terms of navigating and scrolling.

 

[Voyageur]

Improvements are nice. But does anyone find current MacBook/iMac screens not contrasty enough? Will mini-LED actually make a noticeable difference to anyone in terms of image quality?

Improvement is needed. Seriously, the retina display in MacBooks and iMac has not changed much since 2012 and 2014, respectively. This is a long time and they have long had to get an upgrade in the form of, at least, support for HDR content (which Apple sells by the way, but play it on the phone lol?). Meanwhile, other manufacturers are already producing such monitors and such laptops.

 

[toke lahti]

The article sounds like there's already Local Dimming in Apple's displays.
This isn't the case, is it?

 

[dannymo2020]

does anybody have a high res shot of this wallpaper?

 

[NetMage]

When I had an iPhone X that thing gave me migraines, and even the first day when I was setting up my Apple Watch I had a migraine but since it’s has been ok as I don’t look at it as much as I do my phone.

Apple minimizes PWM on their OLED displays, only using it below 50% brightness. You could just set the brightness to 50% or more, then if that was still too bright, dim the display with Reduce White Point. There are lots of articles about this.

 

[CWallace]

The article sounds like there's already Local Dimming in Apple's displays. This isn't the case, is it?

The Pro XDR Display should support local dimming, but that is the only LCD display that does, I believe.

 

[wouwout]

Confusing, Macrumors. Micro led is similar to OLED, each pixel is a light source. Mini led is just fancy local dimming (which has been around forever). Mini led has more individual backlight LEDs, aka more dimming zones.

Pity that Apple is skipping OLED for ipads etc. Burn in isn't much of an issue anymore. Suppose it's too expensive for Apple.

 

[aknabi]

Only the gluten-free models will have zero PWM.

Well usually gluten-free includes a vegan feature... and the addition of the vegan feature causes an increase in pulse width modulation (from the backside of the unit)... not to mention the increase in fan noise

 

[aknabi]

I hope the huge bezels on the Apple laptops will finally get smaller.

I have to have MacOS so that's the reality, but let's be real Apple's HW is a gen+ behind... the XPS being thinner, lighter... and oh you can swap the SSD (I thought the excuse for a non-removable SSD was so Apple could keep it thin? Wonder if the fanboys are still clinging to that argument)
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You people think the camera is bad now? Cause it’ll get quite a bit worse with such a tiny bezel.

he compared the cameras... both were pretty weak... oh and the XPS has a swappable SSD *and* is thinner/lighter/smaller volume... so the various arguments on why Apple can't have competitive HW are out the window... it's simply wanting to milk NRE costs and complacencies knowing their base will buy anything (even though they don't all wear red hats)

 

[Jury]

I have to have MacOS so that's the reality, but let's be real Apple's HW is a gen+ behind... the XPS being thinner, lighter... and oh you can swap the SSD (I thought the excuse for a non-removable SSD was so Apple could keep it thin? Wonder if the fanboys are still clinging to that argument)
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he compared the cameras... both were pretty weak... oh and the XPS has a swappable SSD *and* is thinner/lighter/smaller volume... so the various arguments on why Apple can't have competitive HW are out the window... it's simply wanting to milk NRE costs and complacencies knowing their base will buy anything (even though they don't all wear red hats)

There is a user-replaceable storage on 2016 model and Apple need to do the same for all model of MacBook Pro.