iPad Mini outselling iPad 2 to 1

[0dev]

Meh, popular doesn't necessarily equal good. Just look at how many copies of 50 Shades of Grey have sold.

The iPad Mini is a nice tablet when compared to the iPad, considering the price difference, but compare it to the rest of the market and it gets blown out of the water. The Nexus 7 has double the power for half the price, it even has a better screen, and the OS is just as smooth and has just as much developer support. The iPad Mini has the internals of Apple's old tablet from two years ago. The fact that Apple can sell so many of these is a testament to the power of their brand, not the quality of the product.

 

[palpatine]

Do you have any sales figures for all these other tablets that are "forcing Apple's hand"? Especially the 10" models that aren't $199 (or less).

Hi. I'm not agreeing with the poster about Apple's hand being forced, but I will say that Android sales are actually quite significant. Asus is supposedly selling more than a million a month of the Nexus 7, and that is without any significant retail store presence. The Kindle Fire is likely in the millions, but we know how coy Amazon is about numbers, and I think a lot of us see it as weakening (the higher end ones don't seem to be selling as well on Amazon's site), though without numbers, it is tough to say anything definitive. The Nexus 10 only just came out, so it is an unknown, but it has better specs than the iPad and is far superior to any other Android device I have seen, so I'd say we can expect a few million units soled in 2013.

No single Android tablet will fare well against the Mini or iPad, but in aggregate they are certainly eating into Apple's market share. Unless the Surface Pro surprises us, I'd say 2013 will still see Apple on top, though. It's more difficult to compete as a tablet without an ecosystem, and Android is still not quite as deep in each category as it needs to be.

 

[WilliamLondon]

I am underwhelmed by the Mini. It is a medium sized iPod with a circa 2007 screen and a circa 2011 processor. Let the angry rebuttals begin! But, that is what I see when I look at the fuzzy screen

As for the refresh of the iPad 4, it is not terribly impressive to me, but it also doesn't seem like an expensive thing to do either. They changed the connector (teardowns show that they just left the freed up space empty) and swapped out the chip. Big deal. I have no idea what "huge" means, but I doubt Apple is sweating it. They swap out processors and other components all of the time mid-cycle. If you treat it like an MBP, it is just getting its fall spec bump. They catch Christmas folks this way, but don't expect current owners to upgrade. IF sales are slower than expected, it is probably not terribly meaningful yet, because they did what they could to fend off the Nexus and Surface.

The future? Well, this is the first year we can say without equivocation that Apple idevices are both inferior to their Android competitors and they cost more. Yes, we can quibble about nits, apps, yadayadayada, but that's just fanboy delusional talk. Let's stick to hardware. Last year at this time, the best tablet was obviously the iPad (Asus was embroiled in their wifi / gps fiasco with the Prime). You had to be a delusional Android fanboy not to see that. This year is clearly a whole new game. Next year we'll see competition heat up even more, so I expect Apple will try to bring the Mini up to par and push the iPad as far as they can to improve speed, weight, etc.

Again, we have no numbers, so assumptions about sales aren't terribly convincing to me, and they certainly don't "prove" anything. Personally, I'm glad to see the Mini, because I think Apple needed to compete with the 7 inchers, but I'll probably actually be excited by the Mini 2.

What in your mind should they have done with the mini? You keep declaring it old technology, implying it's not worthy of anything except derision (despite the fact the form factor with this technology has never been achieved before, but that's something claims like yours ignore), but I'd really like to know what you think the mini is lacking for it to have been launched today - meaning it has to be possible, technologically speaking. What should Apple have done?

 

[ljmjag]

What in your mind should they have done with the mini? You keep declaring it old technology, implying it's not worthy of anything except derision (despite the fact the form factor with this technology has never been achieved before, but that's something claims like yours ignore), but I'd really like to know what you think the mini is lacking for it to have been launched today - meaning it has to be possible, technologically speaking. What should Apple have done?

C'mon already. The Nexus 7 is an ounce heavier with a superior screen and more powerful processor. What more do you want someone to say? How many people - Apple fans, no less, like myself - do you need to hear from who say that the mini uses an old (by Apple and any other standard) chip and inferior screen before it starts to sink in that maybe all these people are actually on to something. When - not if - Apple releases the retina mini (perhaps as early as March) and you realize that the "min2" is the model that should have been released from the get go - rather then justify the poor excuse for screen in the initial release - is that when you will stop posting in every thread asking what Apple should have done?

 

[darngooddesign]

C'mon already. The Nexus 7 is an ounce heavier with a superior screen and more powerful processor. What more do you want someone to say? How many people - Apple fans, no less, like myself - do you need to hear from who say that the mini uses an old (by Apple and any other standard) chip and inferior screen before it starts to sink in that maybe all these people are actually on to something. When - not if - Apple releases the retina mini (perhaps as early as March) and you realize that the "min2" is the model that should have been released from the get go - rather then justify the poor excuse for screen in the initial release - is that when you will stop posting in every thread asking what Apple should have done?

FWIW, Android is more resource intensive than iOS so the N7 requires a faster chip and more RAM to run as smoothly as the Mini. It does have a higher res screen.

 

[WilliamLondon]

C'mon already. The Nexus 7 is an ounce heavier with a superior screen and more powerful processor. What more do you want someone to say? How many people - Apple fans, no less, like myself - do you need to hear from who say that the mini uses an old (by Apple and any other standard) chip and inferior screen before it starts to sink in that maybe all these people are actually on to something. When - not if - Apple releases the retina mini (perhaps as early as March) and you realize that the "min2" is the model that should have been released from the get go - rather then justify the poor excuse for screen in the initial release - is that when you will stop posting in every thread asking what Apple should have done?

Do you think that Apple should have implemented the same resolution as the Nexus 7? Or better? Would the mini be better if it had the same resolution? A superior screen, or a superior resolution? A more powerful processor to run what? What apps doesn't the mini run? And when will people who declare it a piece of crap stop telling us that we are ignorant of how wonderful our devices are today? You have a problem with my asking (twice, btw) what it should be, when you clearly think it's not right today, but I've yet to see anyone post anything but criticism of what it is today, declaring it's lack of this or that, but without being realistic about what it actually could have incorporated (taking into account the whole device and ecosystem).

Some *think* or *assume* a new release in March is a certainty, despite the articles that talk about Q4 being when we should expect a retina screen in the device. Regardless, though, they use this March release as proof positive that not only *could* the product be this way today, but it *should* have been implemented today with those same features that are coming tomorrow (ignoring entirely the duration it takes to get a product from inception to market - they didn't just start this product a month before it launched, right?). That's not realistic.

As for retina screens, Anandtech doesn't even believe gen 2 is likely for retina in the mini. If it's not a doubling of resolution so it could be done sooner, what resolution should they implement and what ramifications would that mean for things like, apps, the developer community and the App Store, or how about differentiating the product from its big brother? Pricing and product strategy, does that matter? I think they do to Apple, and the decisions they make I think the market has agreed are better than every other company on the planet.

If it had come out with another resolution that's better than what it is, would you still think it's a piece of crap, or would you think, hey, not many apps run on it, but it's better than the Nexus 7 screen, therefore you'd be more apt to buy it? At a higher price with those better components, what happens to iPad full sized pricing? Does that matter? These things matter to Apple, and they've produced a great device, and that's my opinion based on my experience using this device. Am I looking forward to the next gen with a better screen (but keeping with the form factor they've established with this thing in gen 1)? Absolutely, can't wait, but think it won't come till end of next year at the soonest.

 

[palpatine]

What in your mind should they have done with the mini? You keep declaring it old technology, implying it's not worthy of anything except derision (despite the fact the form factor with this technology has never been achieved before, but that's something claims like yours ignore), but I'd really like to know what you think the mini is lacking for it to have been launched today - meaning it has to be possible, technologically speaking. What should Apple have done?

The facts speak for themselves, don't they. The screen resolution [correction:dpi] is the same as it was for the iPod in 2007. The chip is the same one they released in 2011. I have not implied it is worthy of derision, have I? I have stated explicitly, though, that I don't think this is not a very good effort by Apple, especially for the price. I don't know what claims like mine ignore. My claim is, as I have written on these forums several times, that this is a medium sized iPad. It is only a new form factor if you think a "venti"is a new form factor for the medium sized coffee cup.

Here is another case of designed obsolescence -- the small iPod. I have owned several, and continue to think it is a great device. Why does it always get cameras and processors a generation behind the iPhone, its cellular enabled twin? Sure, we could come up with theories about weight, heat dissipation, etc., but I think the answer is more like "inferior by design."

Going back to the Mini, who would doubt it has a great body? Not me! I am talking about the insides, which will magically get updated when the 2 comes out. It's great that it seems to be selling well, but just like our lack of sales figures, we also lack information about why the specs ended up this way. Apple has done this before (the iPod), so I am not saying anything new here.

I am not trying to troll here, but simply to share my opinion about the product, and to suggest, as many others have done, that the product many of us want is one that is superior to the competition. And, I am also here to remind people that we have no numbers to go on with the sales, so speculation about the success of the Venti iPod and the demise of the Grande is premature.

 

[darngooddesign]

The facts speak for themselves, don't they. The screen resolution is the same as it was for the iPod in 2007...

No iPod has had a 1024 x 768 screen.

 

[palpatine]

No iPod has had a 1024 x 768 screen.

Oh goodness. My mistake. The same dpi as the first gen iPod. Thanks for correcting me on that!

 

[Rogifan]

Hi. I'm not agreeing with the poster about Apple's hand being forced, but I will say that Android sales are actually quite significant. Asus is supposedly selling more than a million a month of the Nexus 7, and that is without any significant retail store presence. The Kindle Fire is likely in the millions, but we know how coy Amazon is about numbers, and I think a lot of us see it as weakening (the higher end ones don't seem to be selling as well on Amazon's site), though without numbers, it is tough to say anything definitive. The Nexus 10 only just came out, so it is an unknown, but it has better specs than the iPad and is far superior to any other Android device I have seen, so I'd say we can expect a few million units soled in 2013.

No single Android tablet will fare well against the Mini or iPad, but in aggregate they are certainly eating into Apple's market share. Unless the Surface Pro surprises us, I'd say 2013 will still see Apple on top, though. It's more difficult to compete as a tablet without an ecosystem, and Android is still not quite as deep in each category as it needs to be.

Ok so basically we don't have sales figures just guesses and estimates. So how can anyone really claim they're eating into iPad market share when there really isn't any solid metric that proves it out?

 

[falconeight]

Meh, popular doesn't necessarily equal good. Just look at how many copies of 50 Shades of Grey have sold.

The iPad Mini is a nice tablet when compared to the iPad, considering the price difference, but compare it to the rest of the market and it gets blown out of the water. The Nexus 7 has double the power for half the price, it even has a better screen, and the OS is just as smooth and has just as much developer support. The iPad Mini has the internals of Apple's old tablet from two years ago. The fact that Apple can sell so many of these is a testament to the power of their brand, not the quality of the product.

Nexus 7 has not a single app made specifically for its screen size.

 

[Rogifan]

Meh, popular doesn't necessarily equal good. Just look at how many copies of 50 Shades of Grey have sold.

The iPad Mini is a nice tablet when compared to the iPad, considering the price difference, but compare it to the rest of the market and it gets blown out of the water. The Nexus 7 has double the power for half the price, it even has a better screen, and the OS is just as smooth and has just as much developer support. The iPad Mini has the internals of Apple's old tablet from two years ago. The fact that Apple can sell so many of these is a testament to the power of their brand, not the quality of the product.

Ah another spec whore. How exactly does the mini get blown out of the water? Are there apps that the Nexus 7, Kindle Fire etc. can run that the mini can't? Does the UI or web browsing or video watching lag on the mini compared to other tablets?

It always cracks me up when people say Apple products sell because of their brand and not the quality of the product. How do you build up a brand if not for having quality products? If the mini was that crap it would've received horrible reviews and people would be returning it in droves. Everyone I know who got a mini this holiday season loves it and doesn't give a crap if a competing tablet looks better on paper.

 

[kyussmondo]

Meh, popular doesn't necessarily equal good. Just look at how many copies of 50 Shades of Grey have sold.

The iPad Mini is a nice tablet when compared to the iPad, considering the price difference, but compare it to the rest of the market and it gets blown out of the water. The Nexus 7 has double the power for half the price, it even has a better screen, and the OS is just as smooth and has just as much developer support. The iPad Mini has the internals of Apple's old tablet from two years ago. The fact that Apple can sell so many of these is a testament to the power of their brand, not the quality of the product.

A typical Android user response about specs. It doesn't matter. The iPad Mini doesn't feel slow compared to the Nexus 7. If anything the Nexus 7 has laggy scrolling especially in the Chrome browser and screen has terrible anti-aliasing for a 21st century device. In the settings menu at higher brightnesses it is very noticeable. The major thing that is a big let down for the Nexus 7 is the poor selection of tablet specific apps. A lot of apps are just not available and others are just scaled up phone apps. I have some really nice apps on my iPad and my friend who has a Nexus 7 asks what it is and more often than not it is not available on the Google Play Store.

I think it is more testament to the power of Apple's ecosystem and the quality of iOS NOT needing specs to cover up shoddy software. It appeals to both customers because they have the content and ease of use which is largely helped by the amount of developers that are more likely to develop for iOS first.

A lot of people love the Nexus 7 saying that for the price it is great. That is a fair point, but for me I would prefer to spend the extra for quality rather than compromise just for a lower price.

And to answer the original poster. It is hardly surprising. Firstly the iPad Mini is cheaper than the iPad so it is more accessible to a lot more people. Secondly, the 7 inch screen is a better size for a lot of people. Personally I prefer the 10 inch screen but I can see why people prefer the 7 for portability, lightness etc.

 

[palpatine]

Ok so basically we don't have sales figures just guesses and estimates. So how can anyone really claim they're eating into iPad market share when there really isn't any solid metric that proves it out?

The number of people visiting websites with certain devices. The number of Android activations. Estimates by analysts. That kind of stuff gives us a rough picture. These are made up numbers as well, in some cases, but more useful (in my opinion) than completely imaginary ones appearing out of thin air on this forum.

Here is a well-known / oft-cited survey.
http://insights.chitika.com/2012/december-tablet-update/

Interestingly, some people interpret the numbers as evidence that Android is failing, and others interpret them to mean that Android is succeeding. I can't say for sure, but there are a lot more Android tablets around me these days (if you count Kindle Fires) than there were last year. It is a marked change from last winter, when it was tough to find anything that wasn't an iPad. Cook and co. shouldn't lose any sleep over this, but they should keep in mind that their devices are for the first time ever clearly inferior in terms of specs. Yes, I know specs don't tell the whole story, just like baseball stats, but they do matter, nonetheless.

Anecdotally, I know several people who have tried both recently (Android and Apple) and have come away convinced that Android is the best for them. I don't think anyone would have said this about Honeycomb, and certainly not about some of the rather weak devices (the previously mentioned Asus Prime) last year. Things are changing.

I was really impressed by the Surface RT. It is actually a cool device at first glance, and I was thrilled by the potential uses. After putting my hands on it, though, I quickly became discouraged. There are all sorts of little and big problems that add up to an unpleasant and very expensive experience. So, I don't expect to see that Windows percentage rise much in 2013. Android, though, is coming into its own, and I hope this encourages Apple to put their best foot forward in the next update.

As for me, it looks like 2013 will also be spent with an iPad. The Nexus 10 is perfect for me, I found a lot of apps on Android that fit my needs (some far superior to iOS apps), but there are a few tiny problems (rather technical and related to my field) that make it an ill fit for my use case. It is too bad. Apple wins through a gadget version of the forced error, but when Apple keeps doing that (I also switched from mainly Windows to mainly Mac a while back) then it says a lot about the team running things.

 

[maxosx]

Every product is a compromise. Apples strong brand following & image of superior products, allows them to get away with things others simply could not. Therefore they build what they want, how they want, to assure them the fat margins that keeps them happy. Then they hype, market, and spin it using buzz words like "Magical & Revolutionary".

You've got to give them credit, Apples the Master of Power & Control

 

[SeanR1]

Nexus 7 has not a single app made specifically for its screen size.

Best Nexus 7 Apps: Top 10 Apps Built For The Android Tablet


http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/12362/20121030/best-nexus-7-apps-top-10-android.htm

 

[maxosx]

Meh, popular doesn't necessarily equal good. Just look at how many copies of 50 Shades of Grey have sold..

True, yet overall if we ignore the outrageous price it's very good, if not exactly the best. Mine suits my needs well. It's a good compromise.

 

[palpatine]

Every product is a compromise. Apples strong brand following & image of superior products, allows them to get away with things others simply could not. Therefore they build what they want, how they want, to assure them the fat margins that keeps them happy. Then they hype, market, and spin it using buzz words like "Magical & Revolutionary".

You've got to give them credit, Apples the Master of Power & Control

I don't know about that. They have good marketing, but they also have good products. No one doubts the Mini is a solid device. It's just not as good as (I think) it could or should be. Other companies have marketing as well, but as I said about the Surface, for example, it fails in so many basic ways. Whatever my complaints are about Apple, and I have plenty, they pull everything together into a compelling package (device + OS + ecosystem).

 

[0dev]

Ah another spec whore. How exactly does the mini get blown out of the water? Are there apps that the Nexus 7, Kindle Fire etc. can run that the mini can't? Does the UI or web browsing or video watching lag on the mini compared to other tablets?

You cherry pick the bit about specs and ignore the fact I also pointed out that the OS runs just as smoothly. And the better specs mean it'll have a longer life too. When iOS 7 comes the iPad Mini will lag because it's already on two year old hardware. The Nexus 7 has a 2012 chip and will therefore be capable of running future software better.

The simple fact is it's better hardware. You buy an iPad Mini and you pay a premium for old hardware in a smaller case because it has a shiny fruit on a back. You buy a Nexus 7 and you pay half the price for cutting edge hardware with an equally solid OS and equally rich app platform.

It always cracks me up when people say Apple products sell because of their brand and not the quality of the product. How do you build up a brand if not for having quality products? If the mini was that crap it would've received horrible reviews and people would be returning it in droves. Everyone I know who got a mini this holiday season loves it and doesn't give a crap if a competing tablet looks better on paper.

Point out to me where I said the iPad Mini was "crap", please. Go on. I praised the iPad Mini in that it's good compared to the iPad 4. However, it still fails to beat the competition.

It's a decent tablet until the next version of iOS and it sells because of that. But the only reason people buy them at such a high premium despite the subpar hardware is because of Apple's brand.

A typical Android user response about specs. It doesn't matter. The iPad Mini doesn't feel slow compared to the Nexus 7.

Read what I said above in response to this.

If anything the Nexus 7 has laggy scrolling especially in the Chrome browser and screen has terrible anti-aliasing for a 21st century device. In the settings menu at higher brightnesses it is very noticeable.

I've not seen noticeable lag in Chrome at all. Sometimes you have to wait a second or two after a page loads before you can scroll but the same is true for Safari on the iPad Mini. Generally navigating webpages is very snappy.

And the great thing about Android is, if for whatever reason you don't like Chrome, you can go right ahead and install a totally different browser. Firefox is right there and it supports extensions too. If you want Flash, you can even get that as well. Apple on the other hand bans the use of other rendering engines in App Store apps. Anti-competitive much?

How does the N7 have terrible anti-aliasing?

The major thing that is a big let down for the Nexus 7 is the poor selection of tablet specific apps. A lot of apps are just not available and others are just scaled up phone apps. I have some really nice apps on my iPad and my friend who has a Nexus 7 asks what it is and more often than not it is not available on the Google Play Store.

This I agree with. For tablet specific apps, iOS is currently leading. However, this is a short term issue which many third party developers are already addressing. It's because Android tablets were previously underselling, so the market for tablet specific apps wasn't there, but with the success of the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire, that's now quickly changing.

I think it is more testament to the power of Apple's ecosystem and the quality of iOS NOT needing specs to cover up shoddy software. It appeals to both customers because they have the content and ease of use which is largely helped by the amount of developers that are more likely to develop for iOS first.

How is Android "shoddy software"? Every single review of the Nexus 7 speaks of how smooth it is and how Project Butter has eliminated the lagging problems Android once faced (although personally, even on Gingerbread and ICS devices I didn't notice any real lag). The ecosystem is thriving and it allows for near unlimited customisability. It's far closer to a real computer than iOS will ever be.

A lot of people love the Nexus 7 saying that for the price it is great. That is a fair point, but for me I would prefer to spend the extra for quality rather than compromise just for a lower price.

You're not getting better hardware. A nicer case maybe, but not better hardware. You're paying over $100 more for metal casing and a fruit logo.

 

[maxosx]

I don't know about that. They have good marketing, but they also have good products. No one doubts the Mini is a solid device. It's just not as good as (I think) it could or should be. Other companies have marketing as well, but as I said about the Surface, for example, it fails in so many basic ways. Whatever my complaints are about Apple, and I have plenty, they pull everything together into a compelling package (device + OS + ecosystem).

I have never said their products aren't good. I use Macs & iDevices by choice.

What I have noticed in the last five or six years, since the beginning of the iOS Era, is the tendency to exaggerate & over hype the products more than before.

No product is perfect, nor do I expect that. Apple's been terrific about achieving a pretty good balance.

One that works for me just fine

 

[palpatine]

I have never said their products aren't good. I use Macs & iDevices by choice.

What I have noticed in the last five or six years, since the beginning of the iOS Era, is the tendency to exaggerate & over hype the products more than before.

No product is perfect, nor do I expect that. Apple's been terrific about achieving a pretty good balance.

One that works for me just fine

Gotcha. That makes sense. I guess I've always thought of Apple as over-hyping their stuff. It's not just the last few years. I don't know if I buy the hype or not, but I do know that Mac and iOS have been great experiences. I like Windows and Android well enough, but they take a bit more finagling to get working for me.

 

[w00tini]

You're paying over $100 more for metal casing and a fruit logo.

Come on man... you can't really believe that in this day and age, can you? You're digging up the Mac vs PC fossil.

Time has proven that this is not the way to view iOS vs Android.

 

[Rogifan]

You're not getting better hardware. A nicer case maybe, but not better hardware. You're paying over $100 more for metal casing and a fruit logo.

Okay so you basically insulted everyone who purchased a mini as being vain and shallow. Nice work.

 

[Rogifan]

Every product is a compromise. Apples strong brand following & image of superior products, allows them to get away with things others simply could not. Therefore they build what they want, how they want, to assure them the fat margins that keeps them happy. Then they hype, market, and spin it using buzz words like "Magical & Revolutionary".

You've got to give them credit, Apples the Master of Power & Control

An, another one of these memes that Apple consumers are 'sheep' who blindly buy into Apple's hype and marketing. In the year 2012 that's a helluva lot of stupid people. I'm amazed Apple is still able to find so many idiots out there willing to be overcharged for inferior technology. Especially when Google and Microsoft evangelists are there day in and day out spreading the gospel of truth. How in the world does Tim Cook do it?

 

[maxosx]

An, another one of these memes that Apple consumers are 'sheep' who blindly buy into Apple's hype and marketing. In the year 2012 that's a helluva lot of stupid people. I'm amazed Apple is still able to find so many idiots out there willing to be overcharged for inferior technology. Especially when Google and Microsoft evangelists are there day in and day out spreading the gospel of truth. How in the world does Tim Cook do it?

Your assumption is wrong.

However if the post was read with a negative mind set, it would be perceived as you did.

My intended point was to recognize Apple for its highly successful marketing strategy, hence the smilie.

Conversely, as someone who is very happy with Apples products (pricing aside) it's my iPhone 5, iPad 4 retina, 15" MBP retina & iPad mini that I find ideal for my needs & preferences.

That said, being relatively new to this forum it's apparent that personal attacks come ones way if sharing honest & true experiences with Apple products ... without even being critical. Conversely sucking up is highly coveted & specifically noted.