MKBHD on Vision Pro

[leifp]

I remain firmly convinced of its potential. I remain firmly convinced that it’s not there yet, for me. Happily I’m all paid up in the tech department for a few more years…

When I pick up a M4/5 Mac Studio (TB5 or bust) I’ll be shopping for a new monitor or two as well. The AVP (I cannot type that without thinking Aliens vs Predator) may well be one of those… and possibly replace my iPad as well (doubtful; I’m not someone who would use a VR headset out of doors or even out of office, really)

 

[Antoniosmalakia]

There’s a couple flaws in your argument… 1) prior to the AVP there hasn’t been a headset of similar optical quality for them to do market research with…2) and define niche, because Commercial aviation drove 5% of U.S. GDP—the equivalent of $1.25 trillion in 2022. Every day, U.S. airlines operate more than 25,000 flights carrying 2.5 million passengers. That’s a lot of people flying. I don’t know what circles you run in, but I fly at least once a month and I know plenty of people who fly more. You’re right, it won’t be as ubiquitous as the iPhone, but it will be a niche many will envy.

lol.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but most people couldn't care less about Vision Pro, let alone envy you for having one.

I'm in no doubt that you love it, but get real.

 

[HDFan]

but the tradeoffs are not worth it when the upcoming OLED iPads will provide a similar HDR experience.

the 77" OLED TV you could get for 50-80% the price of AVP

There is no comparison to a little 11 inch 4:3 display

My home theater center with an OLED TV and full Atmos can't compare with the AVP experience. Have never watched a movie on a iPad or Phone due to the poor sound and small screen. For me immersive video on the AVP is what I've always been working towards.

 

[Rychiar]

The people that want a highly portable movie watching experience with great HDR which is what AVP was supposed to be. Once the OLED MacBook comes along that will be my preferred way to watch a movie in bed.

HDR just never struck me as something someone would care about when watching a movie on a tiny little screen lol. I mean the Vision Pro blows everything else out of the water for watching movies

 

[Bodhitree]

The trajectory-of-usage that Marques describes is not unexpected. Initially the wow factor weighs heavily, later on the inconvenience starts kicking in and people will find themselves tending towards real world devices again. One of several reasons that I won’t be acquiring one.

 

[Avatar74]

...or the 77" OLED TV you could get for 50-80% the price of AVP

Or the 65" Sony Bravia FALD TV I bought for 1/5th the price of an AVP... Plus the $6000 I already have invested in an Atmos 7.2 full range loudspeaker system.

Movies are the last thing I want to watch in VR. The tech will not become useful to me within my lifetime.

 

[macfacts]

$4000 for "casual emails, casual browsing, movies and TV," 🤑

 

[vinegarshots]

My home theater center with an OLED TV and full Atmos can't compare with the AVP experience. Have never watched a movie on a iPad or Phone due to the poor sound and small screen. For me immersive video on the AVP is what I've always been working towards.

Except for the glare/bloom that's inherent to the pancake lenses, and the dimness of the display. The thing that a lot of people don't consider is that the AVP display is super bright, BEFORE it passed through the pancake lenses. It loses an insane amount of light through the optics by the time it reaches your eyes (estimates around 250-300 nits to your eyes), which actually sucks pretty bad for HDR content.

 

[surferfb]

Except for the glare/bloom that's inherent to the pancake lenses, and the dimness of the display. The thing that a lot of people don't consider is that the AVP display is super bright, BEFORE it passed through the pancake lenses. It loses an insane amount of light through the optics by the time it reaches your eyes (estimates around 250-300 nits to your eyes), which actually sucks pretty bad for HDR content.

Based on reading the forums here, I understand that maybe I am less sensitive to glare than others, but even with the glare it blows the socks off of my LG OLED TV (which, to be fair is a few years old at this point, but still). Like they are not in the same universe - AVP is significantly better.

 

[vinegarshots]

Based on reading the forums here, I understand that maybe I am less sensitive to glare than others, but even with the glare it blows the socks off of my LG OLED TV (which, to be fair is a few years old at this point, but still). Like they are not in the same universe - AVP is significantly better.

I'm one of the people who thinks that a TV/display needs at LEAST 1000 nits for HDR content-- the LG OLED TVs are also too dim, so I suppose if you're used to a dim OLED TV then the AVP will be fine for you. But it's still not the best display for viewing movies, not by a long shot.

 

[Night Spring]

I'm one of the people who thinks that a TV/display needs at LEAST 1000 nits for HDR content-- the LG OLED TVs are also too dim, so I suppose if you're used to a dim OLED TV then the AVP will be fine for you. But it's still not the best display for viewing movies, not by a long shot.

But the best display on a portable device is small. The biggest MacBook is 15 inches. Some people would prefer the best quality display on a small screen, while others would say a movie on that small a screen isn't the experience they want, even if the screen quality is superior.

 

[Rogifan]

How much time will be devoted to Vision OS at WWDC? Will it get more stage time than iPad OS?

 

[fs454]

How much time will be devoted to Vision OS at WWDC? Will it get more stage time than iPad OS?

Than iPadOS? Absolutely. What's going on in the iPad space besides slow iteration? Nothing left to do in that space that they're willing to do.

 

[Rogifan]

Than iPadOS? Absolutely. What's going on in the iPad space besides slow iteration? Nothing left to do in that space that they're willing to do.

Boo.

 

[borka105]

23W - what did you scan in as originally? Ditch the dual loop and use the Solo Knit band, loosen it and slide it up and down on the back of your head until you feel completely even contact with the light seal cushion to your face, and tighten it slightly in that position just enough so it doesn't slip. The "best" position for the Solo Knit as at the top corner of your head as that pulls slightly upward on the AVP and helps with weight distro, so you want to find the light seal that sits evenly on all areas of your face with the Solo Knit resting on the upper half of the back of your head. For most people. I also find that squeezing my eyes shut and scrunching my forehead as I'm setting it on my face helps so it's not stretching your skin and comes to a rest in a spot where you're not trying to lift your eyebrows or use any face muscles to subconsciously hold it in place.

I scanned 35W but tried 33W, 26W, and 25N.

 

[G5isAlive]

lol.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but most people couldn't care less about Vision Pro, let alone envy you for having one.

I'm in no doubt that you love it, but get real.

what an informative reply… that has little to do with what I posted. Someone disputed that enough people fly frequently to constitute a real market. I countered with aviation being over a trillion dollars a year and 5% of our gdp. Sounds real to me.

I understand you don’t care for the AVP, but that has nothing to do with anything.

 

[tornadowrangler]

There’s a couple flaws in your argument… 1) prior to the AVP there hasn’t been a headset of similar optical quality for them to do market research with…2) and define niche, because Commercial aviation drove 5% of U.S. GDP—the equivalent of $1.25 trillion in 2022. Every day, U.S. airlines operate more than 25,000 flights carrying 2.5 million passengers. That’s a lot of people flying. I don’t know what circles you run in, but I fly at least once a month and I know plenty of people who fly more. You’re right, it won’t be as ubiquitous as the iPhone, but it will be a niche many will envy.

If you fly a lot then yeah, you probably know people that fly a lot. I'm a teacher. I can't imagine where I would be flying to once a month or even once a year. The best stats I could find suggest that 44% of people in the US take a flight at least once a year. Those making multiple flights a year are probably are in the single digits. Again, something great for them I'm sure, but it's not a use-case that will be a consideration for most people.

 

[G5isAlive]

If you fly a lot then yeah, you probably know people that fly a lot. I'm a teacher. I can't imagine where I would be flying to once a month or even once a year. The best stats I could find suggest that 44% of people in the US take a flight at least once a year. Those making multiple flights a year are probably are in the single digits. Again, something great for them I'm sure, but it's not a use-case that will be a consideration for most people.

No one said use case for the masses. Point is what’s the size of the market? few percent of 330 million is still 10 million people. And by default they tend to have the income to buy it. A Porsche is not a product for the masses either but that doesn’t invalidate it as a product as you tried to do with the AVP. I personally don’t judge a product by how many people I know uses one.

 

[Schlotkins]

If you fly a lot then yeah, you probably know people that fly a lot. I'm a teacher. I can't imagine where I would be flying to once a month or even once a year. The best stats I could find suggest that 44% of people in the US take a flight at least once a year. Those making multiple flights a year are probably are in the single digits. Again, something great for them I'm sure, but it's not a use-case that will be a consideration for most people.

I travel weekly from LAX to JFK (Sunday) and back (late Thursday). It's a pretty rich crowd and also the standard consulting flights. Each time I'm in the lounge before the flight.

FYI - I have yet to see one person using a Vision Pro in the lounge or onboard the flight. In fact, I haven't see one person use the AVP in public. And trust me, I have been looking carefully.

I have a little interest, but a. I wouldn't wear one of these in public and look like a moron and b. After logging 12-14 hour days looking at a screen, I usually don't want to stare at screens so more.

 

[Uofmtiger]

I actually love the iPad. I pick it up first thing in the morning and don't put it down unless I'm eating, leave the house, or sit down at my computer to do the few computing tasks I can't do on the iPad. Most of my forum postings are typed from my iPad, including this one. But I do often wish for a larger screen, and the ability to have multiple full-size app windows open at once. The VP should solve that, but it does strike me as less easy to carry with me than an iPad. The iPad fits in any bag that's designed to carry business documents, whereas the VP needs its own special carrying case. That's one of the things preventing me from definitive declaring that VP will completely replace the iPad.

There are other conveniences like pen input, USB input/output/, HDMI out via USB-C to a display. Also, using it as a separate screen for a Mac. Also, others can share the experience on an iPad ( watching a movie/photo gallery on the bed or plugging it into the hdmi input on just about any modern TV). As you said, it easier to carry around outside the home, but also makes communication more normal when you are in the room with a person or zooming/Facetiming via video versus using a goofy avatar. Seeing people’s actual eyes is important in communication. This is simply more isolating than the iPad.

At its price point, for me, it needed to be a Mac replacement ( which is a use case that I do alone… versus watch movies which we do together) or at minimum allow input from other HDMI devices ( use the displays with a PC/Playstation). Needing to also carry around a Mac is a major downside for my use cases.

It I was single or traveled for work, it might be justifiable, but I don’t fit that situation.

 

[kc9hzn]

Todd Anglin (@toddanglin) on Threads

Resonates. MKBHD on Vision Pro: “My trajectory of usage. When I first picked it up, I used it every day, multiple times per day…then I would use it a little bit less everyday. Now I don’t use it everyday. There’s just not that many apps…right now, there’s not a lot [I can do].”

www.threads.net

What apps or functionality are people hoping/expecting to come to Vision Pro that will make them want to use it on a regular basis?

Well, just today, I was knitting and following a pattern on my phone. I’d have to put my knitting down momentarily to check the pattern. If I could have the pattern floating off to the side, I could glance at it without taking my hands off the knitting. Since I was using the Files app to store the pattern, and the Files app is on Vision Pro, I could already do that if I had one.

Personally, I never expected to live in a VR or AR headset (and frankly, I would be opposed to them if I had to). After having tried the demo, I think Vision Pro is a really useful tool for certain contexts, but that it doesn’t make sense to wear one all day (unless maybe you’re sitting at a Mac all day). Put it on to watch a movie, play a game, or do some task that benefits from AR, then take it off when you’re done. It’s the sort of relationship I wish we had with the Internet (but alas, nearly every online service is designed to be addictive these days).

 

[kc9hzn]

I can’t bring a 77” OLED when I travel.

Also the comfort thing is super subjective. I totally understand some people can’t take it - but for me personally it’s perfectly fine to wear for several hours, and after 30 seconds you forget about the change/reduction in FoV

I haven’t worn one myself outside of the demo, but I found that the solo loop was perfectly adequate for about a half hour use. If anything, it was actually slightly more comfortable than my glasses (because I was an idiot and bought glasses at LensCrafters instead of taking my vision prescription from the eye exam there and buying generic glasses online that would actually fit my big head). (Well, to be fair, my then-current pair did break, and I needed a new pair same day. But the LensCrafters salesperson talked me into buying a pair that honestly didn’t quite fit right, even after I expressed concern about the fit.) My glasses slide off my face and end up sitting at weird angles, and the resulting vision changes hurt my eyes. I honestly was expecting Vision Pro to feel heavier than it actually did.

Would Vision Pro be a little too heavy for extended use? Probably, the AirPods Max have a similar issue, they can be just a little too heavy and have just a little too high clamping force. Using them for an hour or two is usually fine, using them for longer than that can be painful, and I end up needing to take a break. But for the types of uses I plan to use for them, even the solo loop will be fine.

 

[kc9hzn]

Who in their right mind would want to watch a movie on an iPad? There’s not even a comparison there. And why is the mount hood environment any dif than the others?

I feel like the virtual environment is to video what noise cancelling on the AirPods Pro 2nd gen is to audio. I used to work in a building that overlooked Times Square. So much visual noise (moving video billboards, bright lights, etc.). Having the ability to block that out the same way I could block out office noise with noise canceling headphones would have been great.

I specified the 2nd gen AirPods Pro because of the conversation detection feature. You can have noise cancelling on, but, as soon as you start talking to someone, it switches to transparency mode (then switches back when you’re done). I found that the Vision Pro was pretty sensitive about detecting conversation. I turned around behind me during the demo while the immersive backdrop was turned up all the way, and I happened to look at an Apple Store employee helping someone else out. The Vision Pro decided that that was sufficient to reduce the immersion and show him to me.

 

[Night Spring]

But the LensCrafters salesperson talked me into buying a pair that honestly didn’t quite fit right, even after I expressed concern about the fit.

I believe LensCrafters has a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. I'd have taken those glasses back and asked for an exchange.

 

[kc9hzn]

I believe LensCrafters has a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. I'd have taken those glasses back and asked for an exchange.

Had I realized that, I probably would have. Of course, there was a huge compounding issue. Namely, it was June 2020 and I live in NYC. I was actually surprised the LensCrafters was open in the first place. Plus, the fit issues weren’t so bad at first but have gotten worse over time. It probably doesn’t help with the fit that I was 120 pounds heavier when I was fitted for them.

Still, Vision Pro was pretty comfortable for short usage. And it helped me keep my eyes in focus even after taking off the headset, which meant that I was finally not seeing everything in double vision. (My eyes can focus correctly, but it takes conscious effort on my part. Usually I need something like a mirror to keep them in focus, but I had to focus them to use Vision Pro. But I took off the headset and was still able to keep them in focus pretty easily. That’s really the reason I’m interested in buying one more than anything else.)