Indeed.
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
I'm curious though--would you dispute that it's less impressive when the Yanks win the Series than when teams with competitive payrolls do so?
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Indeed.
I'm curious though--would you dispute that it's less impressive when the Yanks win the Series than when teams with competitive payrolls do so?
When smaller market teams do it I think it is unexpected so it makes it special.
I don't think it is ever less impressive to win even for the Yankees, it is not an easy thing to do no matter how much money you have. You can buy every player in the world but that does not make them champions.
Don't get me wrong--I'm not saying that it's easy for any team...but wouldn't you agree that it's much easier for a team with the Yankees' payroll (and thus roster talent/depth) than for teams where they have to make the $$ count more?
Certainly there's more to it than JUST buying talent...but do you really think the Yanks would have anywhere the levels of success they've had if it weren't for their ability to outspend everybody else? (Don't forget, winning the AL East is a heck of an accomplishment in itself...)
For example, if they had been stuck working around Wang and hadn't been able to get CC AND Burnett (or even either one?), do you think they still could have won?
If the Yankees won every one since 2001 I would say yes. The fact that it took them 9 years proves that you just can't throw money at the problem. The Yankees wins are smart front office moves as much as money.
Don't forget a lot of the Yankees moves are to out do the Red Sox, and vise versa.
Again, I'm not arguing that a competent front office is critical--(look at what a mess the Mets still made with all their money...or how the Mariners blew $100M on 100 losses last year!).
But--throwing money at their problems has undeniably helped. When Wang went down, they were able to shake it off and buy a Cy Young candidate and a solid #2 pitcher without batting an eye. When Giambi got off the juice and started to decline a few years ago, they were able to ignore him (and the massive contract he had) and just effectively write him off. To me, this is one of the biggest advantages the Yanks have--problems with individual players are minimized because almost regardless of cost, they're expendable. A-Rod, the most expensive player in baseball is out for surgery? No problem, we've just gotten Tex, he'll fill in nicely. And at over $10M/season less, he was a comparative bargain!
What about looking at it this way--would you agree that their financial advantage has helped them win in the regular season? After all, they've won their division an unmatched 10 out of the last 12 times. That's very impressive--especially in the AL East.
Once they get to the playoffs, the advantage is lessened--roster depth matters a lot less (think about how much rest time there was during the playoffs), and you can ride a few star players. Since the advantage is lessened, it's not shocking that other teams have been able to compete in the playoffs.
Fair enough, I see what you're saying. Personally, I don't blame the Yankees--they're playing the current system by the rules, and extremely well to boot.
I don't like the current system, but until the rules change, I can't blame the Yankees for taking advantage of them,
My point before was simply that since the money does help them, it makes their accomplishments easier, and thus I'm less impressed.
They Yankees have been in 4 of the past 10 world series. More than any other team. Start backing that up more and it gets even larger than other teams. The Yankees are a bought team and buy there talent. There wins have very little to be impressed with. Now any one who beat the Yankees that is impressive. Yankees beating some one. It is a meh and not unexpected because they buy the best players money can buy.
You want more evidence thrown at you showing they are a bought team. There wins mean nothing. They get them buy buying the talent.
Now I know you are talking out of your butt. The Red Sox were there twice, the Phillies were there last year.
In the past 10 years the Yankees won 3 Red Sox 2.
The Yankees lost in 01 and 03. Haven't been back until this year.
I went back and check and have to deal chart I was using not being organized very well (Check edit which was completely about 30 sec before your post)
It is hard to argue with the fact that the Yankees pay role makes there wins unimpressive. Bought team what do you expect them to do. Oh win. Yankees losing to another team. I am impressed with that team. Yankee winning. Not impressive.
If you are going to come in here and argue baseball the last 10 years you should know these facts before hand. You don't need to look up a chart.
Lets go back to the late 90's teams, how many farm system players did the Yankees have, that were not bought from outside. I will let you look at the chart.
The part I find funny is when people point out the insane pay roll that is a massive unfair competitive advantage yankees fans come up with all sorts of excuses to justify it but can not admite that the team is a bought team and buy there wins.
They are impressed with the wins but who do you expect with a team spending 48% more than the closes team and well over a 100% than the leagues average.
They are impressed with the wins but who do you expect with a team spending 48% more than the closes team and well over a 100% than the leagues average.
What was the Yankee payroll in 96?
Give this article a read, http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index....ce-1977&catid=29:articles-a-opinion&Itemid=41
$61,511,870
Which is 11% more than the number 2 team of $55,127,855.
That number has only been growing. So much for that argument not saying they are a bought team. They still had a very large advantage over the other teams and still had a bought team.
Thank you but try again. It is only getting worse. They went from 11% over number 2 in 1996 to 48% in 2009.
Just looked it up because I was curious. Yanks were on top with $61,511,870. The only year they won the Series since '96 when they weren't the top payroll was 1998. That year, the Orioles were the top spender. The Yankees' spendaholic trend really started in 1999; they led by $11M with the top payroll of $91M (Bigger difference than it sounds now, given the overall lower payrolls, as well as inflation).
96, 98, and 2000 I'm willing to give more credit to the Yanks for building a team in a competitive manner...don't forget that this is when they brought up Jeter, Rivera, et all. By 2001, though, kiss it goodbye.
Good page for the statistics
The one aberration in your trend is '98, when the Orioles slightly outspent them (reaction to going to the ALCS, perhaps? That was the series where Jeffery Meier gave the Yanks a free home run).
To be far I ripped these numbers from another forum.
1994
1) Yankees - 45 million
2) Blue Jays - 42 million
3) Braves - 41 million
4) Royals - 41 million
5) Giants - 41 million
6) Tigers - 41 million
7) Reds - 40 million
8) White Sox - 39 million
9) Orioles - 38 million
10) Dodgers - 38 million
1995
1) Blue Jays - 50 million
2) Yankees - 47 million
3) Braves - 46 million
4) Orioles - 41 million
5) White Sox - 40 million
6) Reds - 38 million
7) Athletics - 36 million
8) Tigers - 36 million
9) Indians - 36 million
10) Giants - 35 million
1996
1) Yankees - 53 million
2) Orioles - 49 million
3) Braves - 48 million
4) Indians - 46 million
5) White Sox - 42 million
6) Reds - 41 million
7) Red Sox - 40 million
8) Mariners - 39 million
9) Cardinals - 39 million
10) Rangers - 36 million
1997
1) Yankeees - 60 million
2) Orioles - 55 million
3) White Sox - 55 million
4) Indians - 55 million
5) Braves - 51 million
6) Rangers - 51 million
7) Marlins - 48 million
8) Reds - 47 million
9) Blue Jays - 46 million
10) Cardinals - 45 million
1998
1) Orioles - 71 million
2) Yankees - 64 million
3) Braves - 60 million
4) Indians - 60 million
5) Rangers - 55 million
6) Cardinals - 53 million
7) Mariners - 53 million
8) Red Sox - 52 million
9) Mets - 50 million
10) Cubs - 50 million
1999
1) Yankees - 89 million
2) Rangers - 82 million
3) Braves - 76 million
4) Indians - 74 million
5) Red Sox - 72 million
6) Mets - 72 million
7) Dodgers - 71 million
8) Orioles - 71 million
9) Diamondbacks - 71 million
10) Cubs - 56 million
2000
1) Yankees - 93 million
2) Dodgers - 91 million
3) Orioles - 84 million
4) Braves - 83 Million
5) Red Sox - 82 million
6) Mets - 80 million
7) Diamondbacks - 80 million
8) Indians - 77 million
9) Rangers - 71 million
10) Devil Rays - 65 million
2001
1) Yankees - 113 million
2) Red Sox - 110 million
3) Dodgers - 110 million
4) Mets - 94 million
5) Indians - 93 million
6) Braves - 92 million
7) Rangers - 89 million
8) Diamondbacks - 86 million
9) Cardinals - 79 million
10) Blue Jays - 77 million
2002
1) Yankees - 126 million
2) Red Sox - 109 million
3) Rangers - 106 million
4) Diamondbacks - 103 million
5) Dodgers - 95 million
6) Mets - 95 million
7) Braves - 94 million
8) Mariners - 81 million
9) Indians - 79 million
10) Giants - 79 million
2003
1) Yankees - 153 million
2) Mets - 118 million
3) Braves - 107 million
4) Dodgers - 106 million
5) Rangers - 104 million
6) Red Sox - 100 million
7) Mariners - 87 million
8) Cardinals - 84 million
9) Giants - 83 million
10) Diamondbacks - 81 million
2004
1) Yankees - 185 million
2) Red Sox - 128 million
3) Angels - 101 million
4) Mets - 97 million
5) Phillies - 94 million
6) Dodgers - 93 million
7) Cubs - 91 million
8) Braves - 91 million
9) Cardinals - 84 million
10) Giants - 83 million
2005
1) Yankees - 209 million
2) Red Sox - 124 million
3) Mets - 102 million
4) Angels - 98 million
5) Phillies - 96 million
6) Cardinals - 93 million
7) Giants - 91 million
8) Mariners - 88 million
9) Cubs - 88 million
10) Braves - 87 million
2006
1) Yankees - 195 million
2) Red Sox - 121 million
3) Angels - 104 million
4) White Sox - 103 million
5) Mets - 102 million
6) Dodgers - 99 million
7) Cubs - 95 million
8) Astros - 93 million
9) Braves - 91 million
10) Giants - 91 million
The Yankees were close until 2002.
1994
1) Yankees - 45 million
2) Blue Jays - 42 million
3) Braves - 41 million
4) Royals - 41 million
5) Giants - 41 million
6) Tigers - 41 million
7) Reds - 40 million
8) White Sox - 39 million
9) Orioles - 38 million
10) Dodgers - 38 million
1995
1) Blue Jays - 50 million
2) Yankees - 47 million
3) Braves - 46 million
4) Orioles - 41 million
5) White Sox - 40 million
6) Reds - 38 million
7) Athletics - 36 million
8) Tigers - 36 million
9) Indians - 36 million
10) Giants - 35 million
1996
1) Yankees - 53 million
2) Orioles - 49 million
3) Braves - 48 million
4) Indians - 46 million
5) White Sox - 42 million
6) Reds - 41 million
7) Red Sox - 40 million
8) Mariners - 39 million
9) Cardinals - 39 million
10) Rangers - 36 million
1997
1) Yankeees - 60 million
2) Orioles - 55 million
3) White Sox - 55 million
4) Indians - 55 million
5) Braves - 51 million
6) Rangers - 51 million
7) Marlins - 48 million
8) Reds - 47 million
9) Blue Jays - 46 million
10) Cardinals - 45 million
1998
1) Orioles - 71 million
2) Yankees - 64 million
3) Braves - 60 million
4) Indians - 60 million
5) Rangers - 55 million
6) Cardinals - 53 million
7) Mariners - 53 million
8) Red Sox - 52 million
9) Mets - 50 million
10) Cubs - 50 million
1999
1) Yankees - 89 million
2) Rangers - 82 million
3) Braves - 76 million
4) Indians - 74 million
5) Red Sox - 72 million
6) Mets - 72 million
7) Dodgers - 71 million
8) Orioles - 71 million
9) Diamondbacks - 71 million
10) Cubs - 56 million
2000
1) Yankees - 93 million
2) Dodgers - 91 million
3) Orioles - 84 million
4) Braves - 83 Million
5) Red Sox - 82 million
6) Mets - 80 million
7) Diamondbacks - 80 million
8) Indians - 77 million
9) Rangers - 71 million
10) Devil Rays - 65 million
2001
1) Yankees - 113 million
2) Red Sox - 110 million
3) Dodgers - 110 million
4) Mets - 94 million
5) Indians - 93 million
6) Braves - 92 million
7) Rangers - 89 million
8) Diamondbacks - 86 million
9) Cardinals - 79 million
10) Blue Jays - 77 million
2002
1) Yankees - 126 million
2) Red Sox - 109 million
3) Rangers - 106 million
4) Diamondbacks - 103 million
5) Dodgers - 95 million
6) Mets - 95 million
7) Braves - 94 million
8) Mariners - 81 million
9) Indians - 79 million
10) Giants - 79 million
2003
1) Yankees - 153 million
2) Mets - 118 million
3) Braves - 107 million
4) Dodgers - 106 million
5) Rangers - 104 million
6) Red Sox - 100 million
7) Mariners - 87 million
8) Cardinals - 84 million
9) Giants - 83 million
10) Diamondbacks - 81 million
2004
1) Yankees - 185 million
2) Red Sox - 128 million
3) Angels - 101 million
4) Mets - 97 million
5) Phillies - 94 million
6) Dodgers - 93 million
7) Cubs - 91 million
8) Braves - 91 million
9) Cardinals - 84 million
10) Giants - 83 million
2005
1) Yankees - 209 million
2) Red Sox - 124 million
3) Mets - 102 million
4) Angels - 98 million
5) Phillies - 96 million
6) Cardinals - 93 million
7) Giants - 91 million
8) Mariners - 88 million
9) Cubs - 88 million
10) Braves - 87 million
2006
1) Yankees - 195 million
2) Red Sox - 121 million
3) Angels - 104 million
4) White Sox - 103 million
5) Mets - 102 million
6) Dodgers - 99 million
7) Cubs - 95 million
8) Astros - 93 million
9) Braves - 91 million
10) Giants - 91 million
The Yankees were close until 2002.
wow that makes the yankees look even worse.
Since year 2000 there payrolls have been sky rocketing compared to everyone else.
I pulled my numbers thoguh 2006 from http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Years/2006/Payroll.asp
Then 2009 numbers I got from CBS.
Since year 2000 there payrolls have been sky rocketing compared to everyone else.
I pulled my numbers thoguh 2006 from http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Years/2006/Payroll.asp
Then 2009 numbers I got from CBS.
How so?
2000
1) Yankees - 93 million
2) Dodgers - 91 million
3) Orioles - 84 million
2001
1) Yankees - 113 million
2) Red Sox - 110 million
3) Dodgers - 110 million
4) Mets - 94 million
2002
1) Yankees - 126 million
2) Red Sox - 109 million
3) Rangers - 106 million
4) Diamondbacks - 103 million
2002 is where it goes up, before that they are only 2 million higher.
If you want to throw out this years win as being money ball fine but you can't say that before that the wins were bought.
My cited page has different numbers...For example, in 99, it has the yanks at 91.9M while the next highest was Texas at 80.8.
Much bigger difference than your numbers.
2000:
(Avg per player followed by total)
1 New York Yankees $3,656,542 $113,365,877
2 Atlanta Braves $3,127,992 $95,010,734
3 Los Angeles Dodgers $3,141,883 $94,224,580
4 Boston Red Sox $2,861,753 $93,866,322
5 New York Mets $3,115,549 $89,745,275
6 Arizona Diamondbacks $2,828,909 $80,756,962
7 Cleveland Indians $2,707,783 $78,717,979
8 St. Louis Cardinals $2,390,042 $72,376,177
9 Seattle Mariners $2,075,165 $62,552,802
10 Texas Rangers $1,870,723 $61,359,492
What's your source, Macnut? Your numbers seem low...
Much bigger difference than your numbers.
2000:
(Avg per player followed by total)
1 New York Yankees $3,656,542 $113,365,877
2 Atlanta Braves $3,127,992 $95,010,734
3 Los Angeles Dodgers $3,141,883 $94,224,580
4 Boston Red Sox $2,861,753 $93,866,322
5 New York Mets $3,115,549 $89,745,275
6 Arizona Diamondbacks $2,828,909 $80,756,962
7 Cleveland Indians $2,707,783 $78,717,979
8 St. Louis Cardinals $2,390,042 $72,376,177
9 Seattle Mariners $2,075,165 $62,552,802
10 Texas Rangers $1,870,723 $61,359,492
What's your source, Macnut? Your numbers seem low...
As I said I ripped those from another forum. I want to see a break down by team the past 15 years.
Seems like a slightly unreliable source. If you look at my link above, you can click through and see those 15 years quite easily.
OK going by these numbers
2003
6 Boston Red Sox $3,578,951 $96,631,677
2004
2 Boston Red Sox $4,173,618 $125,208,542
The years the Red Sox won their payroll went up 30 mill. Granted the Yankees went up as well.
To counter act that the Yankees went over board the next year.
2005
1 New York Yankees $8,679,451 $208,306,817
Ok lets not talk payroll in here, if you want to make a thread go for it.
2003
6 Boston Red Sox $3,578,951 $96,631,677
2004
2 Boston Red Sox $4,173,618 $125,208,542
The years the Red Sox won their payroll went up 30 mill. Granted the Yankees went up as well.
To counter act that the Yankees went over board the next year.
2005
1 New York Yankees $8,679,451 $208,306,817
Ok lets not talk payroll in here, if you want to make a thread go for it.
Sounds on target. Yup, in 2004, the Yankees pretty much went out and bought the same amount as the Red Sox. Then bought the Oakland A's again (57M) for good measure. They didn't need to "counteract" the Red Sox in '05...they'd already done it in '04!
In 2005, they outspent by $85M. Yeah. 85. So they bought the Red Sox payroll, and threw in the Atlanta Braves for good measure.
It's laughable.
Back on topic:
Any guesses on if there will be any serious trade offers for Felix Hernandez? He's only got 2 years left of team control, and he's a 23-year-old Cy Young contender. Apparently the Sox were drooling over him at the trade deadline...