mmWave vs. Sub-6GHz 5G iPhones: What's the Difference?

[MobiusStrip]

What exactly are people downloading on their PHONES? Especially on iOS, where Apple blocks you from downloading arbitrary files from the Web anyway.

Putting mm-wave towers all over the place is a waste of money that should be spent running fiber, as the telcos were given grants to do a decade or more ago and just blew off.

 

[Wolfpup]

I don't mean to be a luddite, but I've never once thought that I needed something faster than LTE. I'd love to hear what use cases are out there.

I have no use case for needing faster than HSPA. If we had unlimited data and tethering, then sure, those speeds would be useful, but we don’t soooo...

also, amusingly, “5g” is still not actually 4g.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Why do people keep saying this?

There are over 100 million 5G subscribers in China and Korea. Plans start as low as $10/month for 30GB.

I don’t live in China or South Korea.

 

[A MacBook lover]

it's hilarious that you think you can get 23 ms in most places with LTE.

I get 20-50ms every day. Not evening using a big carrier either - Xfinity Mobile. In a average sized city. Of course, I have always lived downtown.

Do you live on a farm?

 

[MacCheetah3]

For those saying LTE is fast enough, I suspect one of the real benefits to 5G may be increased bandwidth. I believe it natively allows more data to pass in the same frequency spectrum, and of course faster speeds means less people tying up the network with data transfer at any particular time. So hopefully that translates to the phone not getting tied down in congestion as frequently.

I was wondering something similar. Will the speed, data handling improve the amount of clients that can reliably connect to a single access point? If so, then I feel it's a good investment.

My current phone drops to 1 bar at the office and is terribly slow. It just becomes unusable.

Speed means Nothing when your coverage doesn’t even work at all where the user is.

Exactly.

So will 5G provide more coverage than 4G does? I'm not so sure.

mmWave 5G is completely ridiculous by basically requiring line-of-sight in a fixed area. It may give better coverage for a stadium (the oft used example) but it won't do much for regular mobile users on the go. And it won't solve your office problem.

Even sub-6ghz 5G still has a vastly higher frequency signal than 4G. And higher frequencies travel less distance and have worse penetration. So that doesn't sound like an improvement for you either.

If you're in an area with poor 4G coverage now... I'm not seeing how it will be improved with 5G.

Some places still don't have good 4G yet in 2020. What makes you think they will bother installing good 5G?

Indeed. And for that reason, I've been occasionally following the progress of T-Mobile's acquisition and implementation of the 600MHz band/spectrum. If this is credible...

T-Mobile’s 600MHz 5G peaks at roughly 225Mbps, but there are caveats

The Un-carrier's slowest, longest distance version of 5G will blanket the U.S. with data speeds superior to 4G, but there are issues for early adopters.

venturebeat.com

...I'd be happy if it provided ~100Mbps of consistent connectivity.

With that said, I'm ultimately waiting for modems that would support enough bands and work efficiently enough to seamlessly use (i.e. switch/jump from/to) both T-Mobile's GSM network and their recently acquired (Sprint) CDMA network. To me, that'd be the true winner.

T-Mobile does say it is coming eventually.

Will I get access to the Sprint’s network now that you’re combined?

For now, customers will use two distinct networks, Sprint and T-Mobile.
Both Sprint and T-Mobile customers will continue to get great coverage, and over time the two networks will combine to create one supercharged network. Meanwhile, we’re working on ways to make it easy to migrate Sprint customers who wish to do so, stay tuned!

 

[MacCheetah3]

If that is the case there are a lot of wap that ar in sore need of replacing. unless ofc the wifi is not te limiting factor, did you mean home internet connections (where the connection between the home and the isp is the limiting factor and not the wifi as your comment could indicate if taken literally) ? In any case wow americans are being screwed on internet speeds, here in Norway the offical statistics (by the norwegian bureau of statistics) (dec 2019 which is the most recent) says anb average of 150.3Mbps down (no upstream is provides) and a mean of 82.5Mbps. I know the us is big, and for the most part sparsely populated, but come on you guys invented the internet, and packet switching, and iirc where early which comercial isps. what happened? I'm not writing this to make fun of the us, sucky internet is not a joke in late 2020, I'm genuinely perplexed

In metro areas (or those with tech company headquarters), typical ISP plan speeds are anywhere from 100Mbps to gigabit -- gigabit isn't nearly as prevalantly available as ISP ads imply. In rural areas, typically, the options are 10 to 50Mbps DSL, satellite, or WiMax.

 

[whatgift]

I’m telling you right now Apple is going to experience some level of slower sales volume without a 120 hz display, plain and simple. Look, iMessage and the Apple eco system is nice, but from a technology standpoint the Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra 5G is running circles around the current iPhones. Like many have said here 5G is meh, but for every day usage 120 promotion would have an immediate impact in daily use. Apple would be wise not to test customer loyalty.

Most of the "innovations" in the Android space are gimmicks and spec bumps, trying to differentiate themselves in a crowded Android market. I'm glad that Apple doesn't play that game, adding features gradually and to a high standard.
Having a high refresh rate has zero impact on using your phone every day, other than your battery life. I'd be surprised if most users even care.

 

[whatgift]

5G will be good for improving bandwidth, and hopefully improve reception in some areas, increased speeds are mostly irrelevant if you solve those two issues.

 

[farewelwilliams]

I get 20-50ms every day. Not evening using a big carrier either - Xfinity Mobile. In a average sized city. Of course, I have always lived downtown.

Do you live on a farm?

Are you saying one single data point is somehow representative of everyone's experience? That's like saying "well my computer works" to anyone that has an issue with their computer.

Opensignal measures over 2 million devices and their findings are here: https://www.opensignal.com/reports/2020/07/usa/mobile-network-experience
It shows all four major carriers getting Poor to Fair scores in the gaming experience section (which takes latency/jitter/packet loss into account). If gaming is so great on LTE, why aren't they getting good to excellent scores?

I live in LA and in most buildings, I get 170ms. Outside I get 11ms. Crowded stadiums, I get 3000ms. On the freeway, it ranges from 30-250ms. Playing a mobile online game while in the car going from LA to Vegas is such an awful experience.

5G fixes this by providing extra capacity and ease congestion.

 

[A MacBook lover]

Are you saying one single data point is somehow representative of everyone's experience? That's like saying "well my computer works" to anyone that has an issue with their computer.

Opensignal measures over 2 million devices and their findings are here: https://www.opensignal.com/reports/2020/07/usa/mobile-network-experience
It shows all four major carriers getting Poor to Fair scores in the gaming experience section (which takes latency/jitter/packet loss into account). If gaming is so great on LTE, why aren't they getting good to excellent scores?

I live in LA and in most buildings, I get 170ms. Outside I get 11ms. Crowded stadiums, I get 3000ms. On the freeway, it ranges from 30-250ms. Playing a mobile online game while in the car going from LA to Vegas is such an awful experience.

5G fixes this by providing extra capacity and ease congestion.

I mean, I travel to about 12 cities a year, usually.

Doesn't stop me from topping charts in CODM. I see virtually no difference between LTE gameplay and wifi.

Even with two bars in a bricked building I have good latency. From a data center 200 miles away.

I can see the issue with gaming on a roadtrip and losing signal....especially to Las Vegas...lol....you expect 5G to fix that road trip issue?

 

[LeadingHeat]

Apple employees that have been testing the 5G iPhones recently (and confidentially) told Bloomberg that...

Was I the only one who laughed at this? I always imagine if there’s at least one person who gets fired from leaking things this far up the chain.

 

[simonmet]

I’m not buying another iPhone until they switch to USB-C.

 

[simonmet]

Isn't the verdict still out on the safety of 5G? I keep hearing conflicting, yet reliable reports, like the one below in Scientific American.

LTE is fast enough, and nothing justifies the increased risk of cancer.

Scientific American: We Have No Reason to Believe 5G Is Safe

Terrible article, which you can tell from the title. They said the same for 2G, 3G and 4G, yet life expectancy has continued to increase in the past 3 decades.

The things we willingly eat and drink and the lifestyle choices we do or don’t make are orders of magnitude more likely to contribute to adverse health outcomes than a low-level non-ionising EMF risk.

The stress you’re experiencing as a result of this fear-mongering is a bigger risk. The other big factor is wealth.

Eat, drink and be merry I say. We’re not going to live forever!

 

[Denzo]

nice article and informative. Thanks.
As for not “needing” 5G. Sure you can say that. But then on the same hand don’t tell me Apple needs my $2000aud for the latest iphone which doesn’t have the 5G tech you can get in a $200 phone.
Either charge me an arm and leg and give me the latest and greatest, or don’t.

 

[twinlight]

I’m using an iPhone 7+ at the moment and I want to upgrade. But I don’t think I need 5G really. Also I wonder if Apple will comeout next year with a much improved version based on experience from this years version. With their own modem maybe?

Don’t really know what I really need in a new phone more than better battery life.

 

[farewelwilliams]

I mean, I travel to about 12 cities a year, usually.

Doesn't stop me from topping charts in CODM. I see virtually no difference between LTE gameplay and wifi.

Even with two bars in a bricked building I have good latency. From a data center 200 miles away.

I can see the issue with gaming on a roadtrip and losing signal....especially to Las Vegas...lol....you expect 5G to fix that road trip issue?

Again, you're just pointing out your single experience. Am I supposed to disregard this report of 2 million data points PLUS my bad experience with LTE and take your word for it? That's stupid.

And yes, 5G fixes a lot of these situations.. Did you not read the Macrumors article?

mmWave's limitations make it best suited for dense, urban areas, or specific targeted spots like airports or concerts.

It's worth noting that mmWave 5G offers greater bandwidth, relieving network congestion. In crowded areas, LTE speeds can slow because of the number of devices connecting, while mmWave technology is able to handle a greater number of connections without significant speed drops. For that reason, you may see mmWave set up in crowded areas where network congestion is a problem, such as at sporting events, airports, concerts, and other locations where many people gather, as well as in urban areas.

Yes, mmWave can be blocked where there are a lot of walls. That's where sub-6ghz comes in. Sub-6ghz 5g's core design is literally to reduce latency. 5G systems uses a wider range of available spectrum (whether it's high band or mmwave). Alleviating congestion will improve latency.

 

[Tech198]

"It's worth noting that mmWave 5G offers greater bandwidth, relieving network congestion. In crowded areas, LTE speeds can slow because of the number of devices connecting, while mmWave technology is able to handle a greater number of connections without significant speed drops."

In other words, more with the same bandwidth cost.... ? Sounds more kind of a sneak-attack kind of move you'd put over on your opponent playing Mortal Kombat.

 

[notabadname]

Very good article. So much hype about 5G, yet most people will not experience it for a couple of years. Being the early-adopter doesn’t buy you much. It fine if a phone has the capability, but i wouldn’t buy a phone because of it for a couple of years.

 

[dlewis23]

It isn't so much the band, but the channel width. That's what these things seem to neglect to mention. When you're on lower bands, you're looking at a maximum of 20 mhz. Mid-band, like T-Mobile's n41 (from Sprint) allows for 100 mhz. Then up in mmWave, the frequency bands are gigantic 3-4000 mhz wide... and allow for a maximum bandwidth of 400 mhz.

But the biggest gains is the number of users it can support off one connection. It's something like a 10 fold increase. So a properly fed tower will perform far better than LTE with more people before it starts to slow down.

Yes this is true to a point. But if you had 100 MHz in the 600 MHz spectrum you still would not be able to go as fast as being connected in the 2400 MHz spectrum with a channel width of 100 MHz.

They all have their trade offs distance, penetration, speed etc etc.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Yes this is true to a point. But if you had 100 MHz in the 600 MHz spectrum you still would not be able to go as fast as being connected in the 2400 MHz spectrum with a channel width of 100 MHz.

They all have their trade offs distance, penetration, speed etc etc.

Mmmmm. No.

the bandwidth is the bandwidth is the bandwidth. The radio frequency used is nothing more than a radio frequency. Everything else being equal, they perform literally identically for speed per MHz.

more appropriately, since there are huge swaths of spectrum being opened for use. A 10 MHz block of 600 MHz frequency (what T-Mobile just bought a few years back, the lowest in use in the US) would be the same as 10 MHz of 39 ghz (the highest in use in the US).

 

[anthogag]

Apple should not limit mmWave 5G to the US, Japan, and Korea. Canadian cities will have it or should have it by the end of 2021. 12 Pro Max in Canada should have mmWave.

 

[Fatdogperry]

So clearly we can get 1GPS from sub-6? If that’s the case i see no current need for mmWave at all.

Totally agree

 

[tennisproha]

Saudi Arabia has the fastest and most widespread 5G while the US has the slowest and most limited. Shows just how far we’ve fell behind lately, pretty sad.

 

[hagar]

Weird, no mention of 5G spreading COVID-19
/sarcasm.

 

[Whathappened]

I don't mean to be a luddite, but I've never once thought that I needed something faster than LTE. I'd love to hear what use cases are out there.

I once read about new possibilities for medical treatment related to some ultra low input lag connection provided by 5G.