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mobile P4 now available

F

fragiledreams

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 26, 2001
53
0
Athens, Greece
The new Intel mobile P4 (1,6GHZ and 1,7GHZ) is now available from the Dell online store. Apple should do something quickly.
And please don't start talking about the pipeline and the staff. I don't think that a 667MHZ G4 feels comfortable near a 1700MHZ P4... and I don't think anyone will disagree with that.
 
I disagree!! No, not really. You're right. I've just about given up hope on Apple's competitiveness with the PC market. They can have digital hubs up the wazoo and it won't do a bit of good if the hub keeps falling off the wheel! We need MUCH more power if we expect to compete.
 
You're right. Run Linux on either machine, and the Dell will smoke the Apple. However, the Dell that most people will buy will have one nasty problem. Windows.

A Ferrari with a trailer is not faster than a BMW without one.

Sure, we'd all like more MHz so we can feel 'up to speed', but try taking your Dell, your DV camera, and your actors, and making a movie. Just won't be as speedy with the Dell.

Most apps respond faster than you can think/type, and most apps which do time intensive processing (rendering, compiling, discrete mathematics, etc.) are too power hungry to be useful on any laptop, and best left on a tower.

I wish I could direct an Apple commercial, where a bunch of computer neophytes get sat down in front of a bunch of machines, and they were given 'real world' tasks. The first half of the commercial would show everyone working on Macs and PCs. The second half would show the PC neophytes resolving DLL conflicts and fighting virii, while the Mac neophytes drink pineapple drinks by the pool, having finshed their work ahead of schedule.

So, are you complaining because a Wintel Laptop now has faster games?
 
Ya know, we had a G4 in a notebook for a year before the P4 notebooks showed up, and I never heard people bitching at PC companies about how Apple was so far ahead in notebooks that they might as well just close up shop...
Why is it that people who claim they are huge Apple fans cannot pass up a single opportunity to speak the same gloom and doom crap that we've been hearing from the PC press for a decade?
Do you really, for one minute, believe that you have a better grasp on what Apple needs to do to stay in business than Apple does? If so, you are delusional. Apple makes some bone-headed decisions some times, just like every company (and person) does... but if you think they are so stupid that they need the constant guidance of people like the ones who post all these "better do something quick" notes, what are you doing buying their products?
 
I just want to say bravo to the last post:) I would love to see apple destroy the pc world but let's be honest-- they already have a better product than any windose machine -- if you don't believe that then do exactly what the last post said -- go buy a pc and shut up already-- I am a very recent convert to mac user and I love everything about it-- I understand that it is hard to be satisfied but maybe you should try a pc for awhile again and see what I am talking about-- I do so much more on my G4 now than I ever did with my old pc-- that being said -- I can't wait to see what apple thinks of next and how innovative that will be-- the G5 is coming it is just a matter of time-- the G4 is still better than anything else out there --period and that is not even mentioning how much better the OS is than XP-- constructive criticism is great but quite your bitching already!!!
 
I've said it before.

I 've said this in other threads before...

Apple may not need a chip with competitive speed in order to survive. In fact, I'd put money on the fact that they would stay in busineess even if they continued to lag in processor speeds for years to come.

But having competitive chips *can't hurt*!! There is only downside risk in a situation where Apple lags. This situation can only provide bad press, less people using the platform, etc. Even if Apple is superior in every other aspect, having less power in the processor can only hurt them.

Conversely, there is only upside to Apple becoming more competitive with their chips. Getting up to speed can only give them better press, more people using the platform, etc.

Why not produce higher speed chips? Can't hurt, right?

Matthew
 
....

Originally posted by IndyGopher
...but if you think they are so stupid that they need the constant guidance of people like the ones who post all these "better do something quick" notes, what are you doing buying their products?
Click to expand...


I don't guide anyone... I am just saying that Mac lag in CPU speed. Power Mac lags (G4, 133mhz bus, SDRAM, ATA 66...) and now Powerbook lags too.

If you thing that the answer to this statement is "PC suck anyway" instead of "Apple should move their fat arse and do some work in order to catch up" then you guys have some serious problems. :mad:
 
Right now, Apple is behind in CPU speed and memory bus speed. They have been in the past. Then they surged ahead. And fell behind. And surged ahead again.

It's not a race to the finish. If you use that mentality, then anytime a company falls behind for a short breather, you'll get upset.

My response? PC's don't suck (I love mine). And Apple doesn't have to "move their fat arse", either.

I hope Apple doesn't get the race mentality, either. The mentality they have is correct: it's about staying alive and being able to innovate for years to come. It's not about having the biggest market share, or always being the fastest. It's about innovating.

I sure hope Apple's around in 50 years or more. Even a glance down at the case I chose when I built my PC will demonstrate something Apple caused: my beige box has a pretty bondi blue swirl on the front, and instead of being a square boring box, it's a rounded, stylish case. Heck, the sides have gigantic "X"'s on them simply to make it look better.
 
who cares about a p4 laptop???

I don't...

I love my rev A TiBook.

Who else, but Apple, has a dvd drive, can have up to 1GB of RAM and 15.2" of screen in a 1" thin laptop?? EVERY other laptop that I have seen advertised that is either close to 1" thin, or under, has a small screen and no removable media drives. No cd, no dvd, and who cares about floppy disks anymore? Burn a cd that is ISO9660 and you can use it on ANY computer you want. Blank cd's are dirt cheap these days, I have even seen them for free (after a rebate or two)...

The only thing that I would like to have in my revA, that is in the revB, is the better video card.

I am seriously considering getting another PowerBook next year, depending on what Apple does for both their laptop and desktop lines.
 
Re: ....

Originally posted by fragiledreams



I don't guide anyone... I am just saying that Mac lag in CPU speed. Power Mac lags (G4, 133mhz bus, SDRAM, ATA 66...) and now Powerbook lags too.

If you thing that the answer to this statement is "PC suck anyway" instead of "Apple should move their fat arse and do some work in order to catch up" then you guys have some serious problems. :mad:
Click to expand...

Are you saying the G4 DP 1GHz is slow? Will a P4 kick the crap out of a DP 1GHz G4? What if Apple sticks a single 1GHz G4 in a Powerbook (which will happen by summer)...don't you think it would wax that so-called mobile P4.

Here is one other thing about Apple. Why do the PC's have to use a "mobile" processor and Apple puts the same G3 and G4's in the desktops and laptops? It seems the desktop processors would be better...

I don't think MHz matters a lot however, for example, a friend of mine just bought a Dell notebook with a 900MHz Celeron and my 600 MHz G3 iBook kicks the living crap out of it...literally kicks it all to hell. He is so miffed how my iBook with less MHz is so much more powerful and quick and I only had to pay a couple hundred more. No matter how good you think that Dell is...the Apple notebooks are still the best...Apple just needs to pack a little more punch in the Powerbook...which will come sooner then you think....be patient. I am guessing by summer the iBook will move up to 700Mhz and the top end Powerbook will move to 1GHz. They can do both right now......
 
Pentium 4? Oh yeah... It's slower than Pentium 3 on a number of tests.. some improvement! They aren't crowing because there isn't much to really crow about.. two steps forward, one step back. P4s lack a hardware rotate function. That's why P4s totally suck on the distributed.net client and the distributed statistics pages even state that P4s can't compete with G4s on this very basis.. Same applies to nearly every video and graphics editing app which heavily use that function.. Let's see.. graphics editing, video encoding, scientific (1 GHz dual G4 is up to 5x faster on Genentech's BLAST than the equivalent NBCI BLAST on a 2 GHz Pentium 4).. There are a myriad of things where G4 roasts P4.. Why? Pipeline.. no, that's only part of it.. It's called Alti-Vec 128-bit processing baby! If anyone is going to compare processors against G4.. try a fair fight like AMD vs. G4.. the high-end PC world laughs at Pentiums right now, AMD is so far ahead of Intel, it's just not funny. Intel doesn't even have a successor in 64bit land.. Oh ya, they do, but it's not backwards compatible with 32-bit apps!! (Anotherwords, Intel's 64-bit Titanicum will never sell and AMD's 64-bit which is 32-bit compatible will.. Intel is dust). What does this say about G5s? G5s will be up against AMD, not Inhell..
 
Jobs has created a monster. The new slogan has to be just: THINK! (plain)

Once againnnnn....

a) I am fully aware of the fact that in the same MHZ a P4 is slower than a P3, like a P3 is slower than a G4.... However we are talking about nearly a 3x Mhz difference (667 vs 1700) and 3x bus difference (133mhz vs 400mhz) as well as 2x 2nd level cache difference (512 vs 256).... As a result I don't just think... I am 10000% sure that the P4 is faster! You seem to forget something..... Here I am not talking about design, innovation, 1 inch thick, apple logo in the machine or whatever.... I am talking about PURE SPEED.....

b) Why do you mention Celeron? Celeron is the slowest CPU out there, so what is the point mentioning it.... Because it is slower than a G3? Big deal....

c) The new P4 2,2 competes prety well with the high end athlon and probably beats it in some tasks....0.13-micron technology, 512 cache, e.t.c. You guys have to stop thinking so stupid and write things like Inel sucks or AMD is the only or whatever... where the F@@k do you make these conclusions from....

d) Never said that G4 as a proccessor or the dual Ghz power mac suck in any way. It is the fact that they are not cutting edge any more and certainly not prformance leaders. Nothing more, nothing less....

Finaly... try to be less This "sucks", that "beats the hell out of..." e.t.c We try to communicate here, we are not enemies.

Finaly, NOW I finaly understand why all my postgraduate marketing books have at least 4-5 pages each about Apple & Brand loyalty.... It seems like Jobs': "Burns CD, burns DVDs, Burns Pentiums" approach pays back realy well !!! Shame...
 
Sorry

But I don't post much, I just have something to say.

fragiledreams - Why are you a mac user? You obviously don't get the whole digital hub and innovation. You'd rather carry around a 20 pound brick laptop with 2 minute battery life then a 1 inch thin laptop as long as the 20 pounder got higher frame rates in Quake. Apple is not about pure numbers anymore. They are about innovating and making computers fun again. And last time I checked, calculating and keeping up with all these stupid numbers isn't fun. Everyone I know is perfectly happy with their PowerBooks and G4s even if they're not the most cutting edge. Because they can have fun and get work done in a clean and organized Operating system environment that complies to standards, rather than mucking through the Windows Wasteland with DLLs and viruses and illegally embeded browsers.

Apple wants you to have fun with your computer and be productive. If you are scared the neighbors might laugh because their new XP 2000 machine is 2 GHz is faster than your 667 PowerBook then go buy what they have and live with Windows XP, then S T F U.
 
Re:

I never said that apple's lac of performance makes its products inferior. I just said it would be nice to have the performance lead.

I don't care about digital hub, having fun and the stuff! I go to the pub or the cinema for having fun. I just want to run my sequenser and as many plug-ins I can, and that you know needs POWER. Never said that the 2kg, 1inch of the Power book or the design of the Power mac is bad. It's great indeed! On the other hand ATA 66, G4 800MHZ or 933 (I am not a billionaire to buy the high end, you know), SDRAM, 133 bus JUST ISN'T GREAT!

Don't hurry out there to suggest me: GO buy a PC. I don't want one. I just want a fast Mac. If not faster, at least eqal with the competition.

Question: Is it so much that I want? :confused:
 
its not apple's fault that motorola and IBM don't have reasonably priced chips with high clock speeds.
 
to all those out there that still don't see the point of a laptop computer, lend me your ears.

laptop computers are made to run as fast as possible, AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, on BATTERY power. Now lets consider the following. 1.7 ghz p4 in a laptop with a 400mhz bus and a standard Li ion battery (yes i know there is no standard size. So think a little larger than the pismo g3 powerbook's battery) Now how the hell is that battery going to power that thing for more than 2 hours! If you have ever used a P4 there is one thing you definately know about them. THEY RUN HOT! No matter what version they are ,even the new 2.2 ghz chip runs hot and eats power like there is no tomorrow. Ever look at the power consumption for these chips? The "mobile" intel's are almost twice the power consumption as a g4's.

Now apple on the other hand has a good thing coming for them. This new series of Apollo chips runs faster, COOLER, and MORE power efficient then any other g4 yet. So while the intel world cranks up the voltage to squeeze a few more mhz out of their chips, moto (finally) is doing their homework and cranking out more mhz with less consumption than the previous rendition of g4's.

Then there is also the new Li Polymer battery that apple is using in the ipod. Now that is impressive. Run times that are twice as long as full deep cycle recharge times. Combine that with the new Apollos and ding ding ding, we have a winner.

So which to you prefer:

1) Compu-brick P4 1.7 ghz that will play your game of quake in record time but only do so for about 2 hours.
2) G4 ti @ whatever the mhz that runs cooler, faster, and longer than the previous tibook and will kick the crap out of that P4 where it counts.

If you are the insecure type and need to have the "biggest and the best" in terms of mhz to "keep up with the jones" go right ahead. But I'll be laughing at you when you have to run to an outlet every 2 hours to keep your brick alive.
 
Some people need tho clean the S**t from their ears.

Originally posted by Onyxx

If you are the insecure type and need to have the "biggest and the best" in terms of mhz to "keep up with the jones" go right ahead. But I'll be laughing at you when you have to run to an outlet every 2 hours to keep your brick alive.
Click to expand...

I just made a point that the current Mac line-up is not fast enough..... The rest (that I want to have the"biggest and the best" in terms of mhz to "keep up with the jones", that the mbile P4 is going to last 2 hours e.t.c) are all products of your imagination... :rolleyes:
 
Re: G4

Originally posted by Mac_User
Sorry buster, but a G4 667 Ti, one inch think, 48G HD, 1GB RAM, 133MHz Bus, and all the extras is like a never made P4.
Click to expand...

Dell's 1.7Ghz P4 .. 1GB 266Mhz DDR RAM, IN A LAPTOP!, 64MB DDR GeForce4 Graphics Card, IN A LAPTOP, ... that would be fast man.. ..oh yeah.. it's already on dell's website.. and for about the same as the Ti 667.. go figure..

we are all excited about apple's Geforece 4 in the desktops.. but we are still playing on 16MB graphics cards in our ti2's. what's up with that???

they've got 266DDR Ram and we're still using SDR in our desktops!!! much less our notebooks!.. a friend showed me this new dell he is gonna buy and I couldn't believe it was out.. unreal.. i felt so behind with my apple notebook, sure he's gotta run the windows that comes with it, but pc people have been doing it for so long, they don't care if osx looks better or has a neat little dock that jumps up and down when you put your mouse on it. i love apple and thier products are great, but their ability to stay on top is gone long ago. they can improve one area at a time it seems.. desktops, then consumer, then the notebooks have a whirl, but it's one company trying to keep up with the world, and it's just not working.

oh and the dell has an enhanced UXGA monitor (full 15") with does resolution much higher than 10x7.

not that i am all for dell, which i will surely be bashed about.. i certainly don't want one.. i just want to see apple stay on top of available technology better than they are presently.. (in each product line)

steve slimmed down the products, why can't they be kept up?
 
I am copying this post I made on another thread this morning because I think it relates...


I am an engineer, so at work I use a box that was built for running CAD software. It just happens to be a PIII with WinNT. I have had this machine about 8 months and I think it is a 1 GHz machine, with 512 mb ram, but I am not sure about the Proc. It really doesn't matter so much to me. The rate limiting factor on my work flow is still my typing skills and my brain. If i needed more horse power, we have a machine dedicated to Finite Element Analysis (FEA) that the engineers can use. When I come home, I want to relax, turn on my internet radion via itunes, surf the web, write reports/spreadsheets for school (in the Mac OS X- Office Suite) , and on weekends, I might toy with iMovie. I love synincg my iPod with a custom mix that I made for my next trip to the gym (oh and all day at work, my iPod sits next to me so I can stave off engineering boredom for another 3min and 20 sec). When I go somewhere with my wife, family or friends, I have the option of taking my digital camera along and snapping pictures, then getting home and plugging in the camera and letting iPhoto organize them. I really dont hate pc's, they are so utilitarian though (like a hammer)... it is hard to have any emotion about them. But, I really dont enjoy windows (and in fairness, I havent tried XP).

Why did I post this here? Because for me, processor speed is an issue, but b no means the most important issue. I care more about how much I like the OS and what value-added items the comp brings to me. I switched to Mac OS about a year ago, because I wanted to try something that after a friend showed me (his G3 laptop) that I thought was way cool. I love my G4, it does what I want. I am even seriously debating getting a laptop (after 3/24... i just gotta know what they have in mind). I want to take my fun OS on the road... I want to show others how fun and useful OS X with the iApps can be.

So... in summary, for all you legitimate pros out there, I feel for you. It must be very difficult to wait for upgrades, but for me and many other customers it isnt so much of an issue. What counts to me is the experience and value of the comp. Getting people to switch does mean fighting a MegaHertz Myth somewhat, but that is changing. Many people stopped upgrading their comps proc because they did not see a need. Microsoft artificially tries to generate a need by releasing cookie cutter clone updates like Windows ME or Win 98. Essentially, these contained more drivers and non-value added features, in my opinion. With Win 2000 and XP their may be some value and cause some to upgrade. I really think we as apple fans should not fight a PC vs MAc war with our famillies, coworkers and friends, but rather show people what is so useful and cool about the Mac OS.

<stop>
 
Contradictions with BrittleHallucinations

Yo BrittleHallucinations.... On the one hand you are all about " I need the power for my work", and when someone says get a pc, you say "I don't want to". Which one is it? Work is work, my brother, so get the job done. If you limit yourself to Brand X to do Task Y, you really have no business complaining about the best Brand X not being good enough, when it is YOU that limited yourself to that brand.
 
!!!!

I don't want a PC to to my job!

I have owned a 8088@15mhz, 486@33mhz, P2@300mhz, and a P3@600MHZ...... That's enough! I got sick of it! I work on MS dos/windows as long as I remember my existence.

I like the Mac OS and the whole stuff behind Mac and Apple so I want a Power Mac. But I need it to be fast. After all this burns/toasts/whatever Pentiums advertishments/marketing stuff I expect it to be fast!!! But it's all bull****... Got it... That's what bothers me...

I tried to explain with 1000 diferent ways, during my posts, what my broblem is so I now hope you know what I mean!

Have a nice day.
 
Re: Re: G4

Originally posted by DannyZR2


Dell's 1.7Ghz P4 .. 1GB 266Mhz DDR RAM, IN A LAPTOP!, 64MB DDR GeForce4 Graphics Card, IN A LAPTOP, ... that would be fast man.. ..oh yeah.. it's already on dell's website.. and for about the same as the Ti 667.. go figure..

we are all excited about apple's Geforece 4 in the desktops.. but we are still playing on 16MB graphics cards in our ti2's. what's up with that???

they've got 266DDR Ram and we're still using SDR in our desktops!!! much less our notebooks!.. a friend showed me this new dell he is gonna buy and I couldn't believe it was out.. unreal.. i felt so behind with my apple notebook, sure he's gotta run the windows that comes with it, but pc people have been doing it for so long, they don't care if osx looks better or has a neat little dock that jumps up and down when you put your mouse on it. i love apple and thier products are great, but their ability to stay on top is gone long ago. they can improve one area at a time it seems.. desktops, then consumer, then the notebooks have a whirl, but it's one company trying to keep up with the world, and it's just not working.

oh and the dell has an enhanced UXGA monitor (full 15") with does resolution much higher than 10x7.

not that i am all for dell, which i will surely be bashed about.. i certainly don't want one.. i just want to see apple stay on top of available technology better than they are presently.. (in each product line)

steve slimmed down the products, why can't they be kept up?
Click to expand...

Yes, I forgot to ask you...how heavy is it? How big is the screen? How big is the laptop? What connectors and WHERE are they? Is it stylish?

Shut the f*ck up than.
 
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