Mojave dual-boot experience?

[TheIntruder]

Dual-booters:

While I'd love nothing more than to be able to stay with Mojave, the reality of the situation is the apps are starting to demand newer versions of Mac OS, and that trend will only become more widespread as time goes on.

To prepare for the future, I'd like to install a newer OS (debating Big Sur vs. Monterey) on a secondary external drive to explore, and see what works and won't work, but wanted to make sure things like newer firmware updates, which are rolled into OS installers, won't have any detrimental effects on the current primary Mojave installation.

I think I've identified substitutes for all of the ancient apps (like Quicken 2007!) I still use, so most of the hurdles are gone,

My Brother printer, which has had a good long run, saw the end of support with Catalina, and doesn't support AirPrint, so it may have to move to a different role, but I think I read somewhere that CUPS drivers can still be installed on the newer OSes, since it hasn't been completely deprecated yet, as far as Monterey, no? But it will be a bummer to give up Control Center, which has become a familiar tool. Image Capture works, but works differently, and takes longer to perform scans, so that will be a different workflow.

I'll admit I'm not really looking to try to run a dual-boot solution, but may set it up as such, just to have the option, My main concern is to ensure Mojave isn't compromised in some way(s) with a machine that has been "upgraded" to a newer OS, and figure you folks can offer the best insight.

In the days past, this kind of thing would have been sort of a fun dive, but now, administration has little appeal, and the desire to have a stable setup, that works (like Mojave!) takes precedence, especially as Apple had clamped down, and thrown more hoops into those tasks.

 

[Fishrrman]

I have a 2018 Mini.

My "primary OS" is Mojave (I still have 32 bit apps I use).

But I also experiment with Monterey on an external USB3 SSD. In fact, I'm booted and running in Monterey now, having just installed the latest 12.4 beta from Apple a few minutes ago.

If you want to begin experiments in "moving beyond Mojave", I'd suggest you follow a similar path. That is...
- get an external USB3 SSD (or put one together yourself)
- install a more recent version of the OS (I'd recommend Monterey)
- "switch-boot" back-and-forth as required.

Hmmm... did I miss WHICH MAC you have right now?

 

[MBAir2010]

theintruder
Someone on a Mojave forum post #79 open-cored their mac to run Monterey, and Mojave.
This weekend, the mac mini should run both OS with a dual ssd install.
i hope!

 

[TheIntruder]

I have a 2018 Mini.

My "primary OS" is Mojave (I still have 32 bit apps I use).

But I also experiment with Monterey on an external USB3 SSD. In fact, I'm booted and running in Monterey now, having just installed the latest 12.4 beta from Apple a few minutes ago.

If you want to begin experiments in "moving beyond Mojave", I'd suggest you follow a similar path. That is...
- get an external USB3 SSD (or put one together yourself)
- install a more recent version of the OS (I'd recommend Monterey)
- "switch-boot" back-and-forth as required.

Hmmm... did I miss WHICH MAC you have right now?

That's the plan. Have an extra SSD, and a '19 iMac. APFS allows cohabitation without the need for partitioning, but I'm going to keep everything segregated.

Just wanted to know if there were any gotchas, like a newer firmware harming Mojave, or IIRC with one of the past updates, Apple thinking it might be helpful to convert old volumes to APFS.

That's the kind of thing I don't want to discover after the fact

Just making sure it's possible to experiment with no repercussions.

 

[richmlow]

Dual-booters:

While I'd love nothing more than to be able to stay with Mojave, the reality of the situation is the apps are starting to demand newer versions of Mac OS, and that trend will only become more widespread as time goes on.

To prepare for the future, I'd like to install a newer OS (debating Big Sur vs. Monterey) on a secondary external drive to explore, and see what works and won't work, but wanted to make sure things like newer firmware updates, which are rolled into OS installers, won't have any detrimental effects on the current primary Mojave installation.

I think I've identified substitutes for all of the ancient apps (like Quicken 2007!) I still use, so most of the hurdles are gone,

My Brother printer, which has had a good long run, saw the end of support with Catalina, and doesn't support AirPrint, so it may have to move to a different role, but I think I read somewhere that CUPS drivers can still be installed on the newer OSes, since it hasn't been completely deprecated yet, as far as Monterey, no? But it will be a bummer to give up Control Center, which has become a familiar tool. Image Capture works, but works differently, and takes longer to perform scans, so that will be a different workflow.

I'll admit I'm not really looking to try to run a dual-boot solution, but may set it up as such, just to have the option, My main concern is to ensure Mojave isn't compromised in some way(s) with a machine that has been "upgraded" to a newer OS, and figure you folks can offer the best insight.

In the days past, this kind of thing would have been sort of a fun dive, but now, administration has little appeal, and the desire to have a stable setup, that works (like Mojave!) takes precedence, especially as Apple had clamped down, and thrown more hoops into those tasks.

This is exactly what I want to do also! Looking forward to good advice from the MacRumors community.


richmlow

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

Don't over think this.
There really isn't much to it.

If you want to experiment with Monterey, just install it onto an external drive.
Leave your internal drive "as it is now", with Mojave, etc.

I've been booting and running multiple OS's for MANY years, on different Macs.
No problems.

 

[TheIntruder]

My first Apple OS was DOS 3.3, and in a former life, I administered Macs for a small company.

In the past, I would have happily dived into new software, and dealt with whatever cropped up, helped (and not hindered) by more open systems, and the tools Apple provided, which at least acknowledged a subset of users who didn't blindly and obliviously accept whatever update was offered (like the Apple of today expects now), without at least testing it first.

Frankly, I'd love nothing more than to be able to trust that hitting "Update" would result in bliss and puppies, but realistically speaking, know that the Apple of today doesn't produce software of such quality, and in some respects, resembles the much-hated Microsoft at its peak, and not in the positive sense. Times have changed, as has the industry as a whole, and that requires a prudent approach.

That said, I did proceed, with Big Sur, full clean install, and not unexpectedly, the Boot ROM was updated, and didn't result in any apparent repercussions.

After what must have been six or seven opaque reboots (not exaggerating), Big Sur finally appeared and pretty much functions like Mac OS has since OS X took over for Classic.

One welcome finding was that CUPS is indeed intact, and the last supported version of Brother's b/w laser drivers meant for Catalina can be installed, and based on a few test pages, works fine. Control Center, being a 32-bit app, was a casualty as expected. No need to buy a new printer, at least for now.

I'm not averse to change, but am when it is questionable. I understand the need for Apple, and other companies, to throw of fresh coat of paint on their UX, and be able to tout it as the next big thing, but the penchant for modern designers to reduce the size of text, minimize chrome, use space poorly, and dislike for contrast is a trend that needs to stop. If it doesn't, those designers will eventually understand and curse the choices they used to make when they age and their vision declines as well. The original Mac team had to develop a usable and compelling UI with a single bit of screen depth and 512x384 pixels. Today's designers have high resolution color screens with wide color gamuts, yet mainly utilize white, and shades of gray, in varying combinations of legibility ranging from poor to piss poor.

But, where it gets uglier, and doesn't inspire confidence is when a simple program like Contacts can't import a modest .abbu archive, and sucks >100% CPU time when running.

Or in the case of iTunes Music takes down the whole machine while trying to import a music library, something I don't think I've seen, or very rarely since OS X became the standard. Even the much-maligned iTunes never had such an issue.

Quite amazing to watch the Finder crash, have its windows disappear, and then Music, before everything disappeared, the screen turned black, and forced a hard reboot. Worse, rebooting would repeat the process as the OS tried to reopen and restore the apps, until a side trip into Recovery Mode brought up a dialog offering to abandon the attempt on the subsequent reboot.

Then, there are the little things, like Finder windows failing to reopen, disappearing after a reboot, or forgetting their settings, but I guess if Apple hasn't deigned to FTFF in >20 years, it's never going to.

So, @richmlow , do feel free to experiment, but be prepared for surprises.

 

[MAGFoxRox]

My first Apple OS was DOS 3.3, and in a former life, I administered Macs for a small company.

In the past, I would have happily dived into new software, and dealt with whatever cropped up, helped (and not hindered) by more open systems, and the tools Apple provided, which at least acknowledged a subset of users who didn't blindly and obliviously accept whatever update was offered (like the Apple of today expects now), without at least testing it first.

Frankly, I'd love nothing more than to be able to trust that hitting "Update" would result in bliss and puppies, but realistically speaking, know that the Apple of today doesn't produce software of such quality, and in some respects, resembles the much-hated Microsoft at its peak, and not in the positive sense. Times have changed, as has the industry as a whole, and that requires a prudent approach.

That said, I did proceed, with Big Sur, full clean install, and not unexpectedly, the Boot ROM was updated, and didn't result in any apparent repercussions.

After what must have been six or seven opaque reboots (not exaggerating), Big Sur finally appeared and pretty much functions like Mac OS has since OS X took over for Classic.

One welcome finding was that CUPS is indeed intact, and the last supported version of Brother's b/w laser drivers meant for Catalina can be installed, and based on a few test pages, works fine. Control Center, being a 32-bit app, was a casualty as expected. No need to buy a new printer, at least for now.

I'm not averse to change, but am when it is questionable. I understand the need for Apple, and other companies, to throw of fresh coat of paint on their UX, and be able to tout it as the next big thing, but the penchant for modern designers to reduce the size of text, minimize chrome, use space poorly, and dislike for contrast is a trend that needs to stop. If it doesn't, those designers will eventually understand and curse the choices they used to make when they age and their vision declines as well. The original Mac team had to develop a usable and compelling UI with a single bit of screen depth and 512x384 pixels. Today's designers have high resolution color screens with wide color gamuts, yet mainly utilize white, and shades of gray, in varying combinations of legibility ranging from poor to piss poor.

But, where it gets uglier, and doesn't inspire confidence is when a simple program like Contacts can't import a modest .abbu archive, and sucks >100% CPU time when running.

Or in the case of iTunes Music takes down the whole machine while trying to import a music library, something I don't think I've seen, or very rarely since OS X became the standard. Even the much-maligned iTunes never had such an issue.

Quite amazing to watch the Finder crash, have its windows disappear, and then Music, before everything disappeared, the screen turned black, and forced a hard reboot. Worse, rebooting would repeat the process as the OS tried to reopen and restore the apps, until a side trip into Recovery Mode brought up a dialog offering to abandon the attempt on the subsequent reboot.

Then, there are the little things, like Finder windows failing to reopen, disappearing after a reboot, or forgetting their settings, but I guess if Apple hasn't deigned to FTFF in >20 years, it's never going to.

So, @richmlow , do feel free to experiment, but be prepared for surprises.

How did it all work out in the end? Any lessons learned to share?

 

[TheIntruder]

I'm still casually building up the drive, and haven't reached the point where I'd be ready to consider making it the primary boot volume.

Aside from what I noted already, I discovered that EasyFind has a bug when the directory selection is "Active Window." That triggers a Privacy/Automation alert to give it permissions, but it doesn't appear as an app seeking such permissions in the Pref panel. It has already been granted Full Disk Access.

Since it's a freebie app (albeit a very useful one) and the developer took a while to make it fully APFS compatible, I don't expect it to be fixed in the short term. But, it does function otherwise.

The war on legibility via transparency extends to Big Sur's system menus as well, not just the menu bar as on Mojave, so the Reduce transparency setting is more essential than ever.

And Apple's historical penchant to disregard, if not violate its own HIGs with iTunes, continues with Music as well, which ignores the user's system preferences, and imposes a white/red theme on the app.

 

[richmlow]

OK, an update.....


As you recall, I wish to install macOS Monterey on an external SSD for my 2013 Mac Pro. Currently, macOS Mojave is installed on the internal SSD (and I want to keep it that way).

So, I was able to format the external SSD (to APFS) on a newer Macbook Pro 13" (running macOS Big Sur), and then installed macOS Monterey onto the external SSD.

Hoping to just "plug in" the external SSD into the 2013 Mac Pro (and all set to go), I get an ERROR message saying that the external SSD is "incompatible" with macOS Mojave....and something about a "firmware update" which could not be done!

Does anybody have any advice or suggestions to solve this problem? Any help is greatly appreciated!


richmlow