Mom Says Youngster Has Male Brain

[MOFS]

Here's an update on this story with a more detailed account of what is actually happening.

It saddens me that people in this thread can be so condemning and judgemental without knowing anything about the issue at all.

Absolutely. Even without that article, everyone should know that the kind of decision she took is not one thats going to make it easier for her at school socially and is therefore one that wasn't going to have been made on the spur of the moment...

okay thats messed up...lets just hope that this doesnt screw her up for the rest of her life

No. Thats the kind of statement that shows my point.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Here's an update on this story with a more detailed account of what is actually happening.

It saddens me that people in this thread can be so condemning and judgemental without knowing anything about the issue at all.

Now that we know the second half of the story, so to speak, everything falls into place. Before, it looked like parents that went overboard-- now it looks like they are doing the right thing as well as the school. Good for them.

 

[rainman::|:|]

It's interesting that the only people that are against this kind of treatment are those that have never dealt with transsexualism or known any transgendered people... And why is that? Could it be that people here are simply afraid of something they know nothing about? No, humans never do that.

Makes me glad none of these people were cavemen when fire was invented.

I feel bad for the child because of the overexposure here. But maybe this will make other parents realize the early signs of transgenderism and respond in better ways than the negative gender-enforcement that happens today.

Likewise, if the parents here were forcing the child to act as a male, it would be gender-enforcement. But they're instead fostering the child in a positive way and I salute that.

 

[gekko513]

I also find it sad that many people here jumped to the conclusion that these were terrible parents without knowing any details of the case.

It's sad because I assume it must be based on a some notion that all children under normal circumstances will grow up to be an heterosexual of their genetic sex, that any sign of deviance should and can be corrected and that if the child grows up as anything other than heterosexual it is because of bad parents.

This notion is wrong and I think it is unhealthy for the children in question, for the parents and for the society in general.

 

[Mechcozmo]

It's sad because I assume it must be based on a some notion that all children under normal circumstances will grow up to be an heterosexual of their genetic sex, that any sign of deviance should and can be corrected and that if the child grows up as anything other than heterosexual it is because of bad parents.

I don't have this notion-- in fact, I hadn't ever thought of it before.
It may have to do with the fact that it is considered 'normal' to be heterosexual, but personally any deviance isn't necessarily bad.
Now, if I had kids (which I don't) and they deviated from the normal and started to hurt people or animals physically, then that should be corrected because it isn't good for them to grow up with the notion that harming others is O.K. But deviating towards homosexuality isn't something that is necessarily bad.

Normal is something that everyone has their own interpretation of, because if you want a 'normal' person I am not normal. But I feel normal, sometimes. Thus, normal depends on many things.

Initially, it seemed that the parents were overreacting. Now, it seems they are doing the right thing.

 

[jywv8]

I just took a test over on the BBC site to determine what "sex" my brain was. Although I'm a male, the BBC says I have a female brain. I don't plan on any sex changes, but it was a very interesting test.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/

That is indeed an interesting test. According to this test, I am a female with a male brain. I'm not surprised.

 

[DesterWallaboo]

This can be perfectly healthy.

If it's a 'phase' then acknowledging and exploring her gender-dysphoria at that age is far more healthy than suppressing it.

If it's not a phase and puberty brings about increased confusion and self-loathing, then further steps can be taken to correct what is seen and experienced as an unlivable situation.

Your analogy is not at all relevant. Transexualism is not comparable to a species masquerading as another...

You write all of this while drinking your tea in the staff room at some elitest academic university?

 

[stubeeef]

I am a 44 yr old male in a monogamous 15 yr relationship, but all accounts that british test says I'm female. Oh yea 18 yrs military service.

That is funny.

 

[Dros]

You write all of this while drinking your tea in the staff room at some elitest academic university?

I had to laugh at the way you tried to mock her. "tea" at an "elitist academic university"? Those are cliches worthy of a political debate! I'm assuming you wrote "elitist academic university" to clarify that she isn't in the staff room of an "elitist vocational university"?

 

[Blue Velvet]

You write all of this while drinking your tea in the staff room at some elitest academic university?

No... in fact, I have had considerable experience working and living with transexuals including some who were in their teens.

Besides, I'm off tea at the moment. Coffee's the thing.
...And I've never been to university.

 

[Apple!Freak]

Ha... Now wouldn't it be perfect if "he" was gay? It would look perfectly normal. It's a gay that would work in all aspects.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Ha... Now wouldn't it be perfect if "he" was gay? It would look perfectly normal. It's a gay that would work in all aspects.

No need to put "he" in quotes.

No need to also use the term 'it' when referring to another human being... the term is quite offensive and I think you know it.

 

[kettle]

No need to put "he" in quotes.

No need to also use the term 'it' when referring to another human being... the term is quite offensive and I think you know it.

yes, but despite your over sensitivities, Apple!Freak has actually made a very good point.

Could someone actually link to the "Science" in this article.

and as far as I'm concerned there is no sense in describing a females brain as a female brain unless it is in the body of a female, regardless of how it is utilised in a neurological respect. visa versa.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Could someone actually link to the "Science" in this article.

http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0106.htm

 

[Chappers]

Of course people jump to conclusions we all do.

 

[FoxyKaye]

This can be perfectly healthy.

Thank you Blue Velvet! Seriously, I got like five comments into this thread and was ready to launch into a serious tirade that would most certainly get this thread pushed into the political forum. Instead, I read your comment.

Jeez folks this is the 21st century, some of the comments on this thread so far are more befitting of the dark ages.

 

[FoxyKaye]

It's interesting that the only people that are against this kind of treatment are those that have never dealt with transsexualism or known any transgendered people... And why is that? Could it be that people here are simply afraid of something they know nothing about? No, humans never do that.

[edit]

Likewise, if the parents here were forcing the child to act as a male, it would be gender-enforcement. But they're instead fostering the child in a positive way and I salute that.

Again, thank you Paul. I've been an activist in the Queer communities for more than 15 years, and have watched friends struggle with the very real and difficult issue of being transgendered. My partner works at an LGBT youth organization in San Francisco, and some of the youth who go there have been kicked out of their houses for being gender-variant, LGBT-identified, or otherwise not in conformity with social gender expectations. It is a hard issue, and I wish the parents of all these youth were as accepting and understanding as the parents in this article.

 

[mpw]

The article says they came to this after consulting with "medical professionals"

…”Hello everybody, I’m Doctor Nick”…

 

[Dave00]

The problem is not that the girl identifies as a male, and wants to wear male clothing. Experimenting with gender role and clothing is perfectly natural.

The problem is allowing a child to re-assign their gender identity at age 9. The mind of a child, at age 9, can hardly be expected to understand the differences between sex, gender, and sexual orientation. (Many adults, in fact, have alot of trouble identifying the difference - i.e., that transvestites are usually not homosexual.) They've taken a possible positive response - allowing exploration of identity without condemning it - to the extreme, instead actively encouraging a permanent change in identity. This is, in my opinion, just as bad as completely suppressing the experimentation.

The child needs to know that you can have masculine tendencies and still be a girl. Healthy human beings have a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. Some men are more feminine than some women, and some women are more masculine than some men.

This is a great example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. This little girl is in for a world of hurt. I honestly feel bad for the whole family, and hope they get some better advice.

 

[mpw]

It never ceases to amaze me what craziness goes on in the world.

Now don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t suggest that there’s anything wrong for a girl to want to be called John or a boy to want to be called Joan as it’s just a name. Likewise if I (male) want to wear a dress I would expect nobody to care, although they may laugh at me just as they might if I wore bright red dungarees to the office or a business suit while trekking through the hills.

But why does this girl or her family expect me to join in with the pretence that she is a boy?

If we are going to accept that male and female should be treated differently (which is an issue in its self) this girl should be treated as that, a girl. By that I mean she gets the same education as all the other children whether male or female, she should get the same opportunities as all the other children whether male or female AND she needs to live by the same social rules as all the other children whether male or female.

She IS a girl and she should use the female bathroom and shower. In the 2nd article linked there’s an explanation that she’ll use her own bathroom at school what about at the weekend when she goes to Burger King with her group of friends?

I know that the medical profession will say there’s a difference between her condition and homosexuality but for the sake of a quick example should gay males use female restrooms and lesbians use the gents? It just doesn’t make sense. If we’re going to blur the differences between the sexes than why not have one bathroom for all? What is so wrong with that?

In my opinion this girl should have been allowed to wear what she wanted, be called what she wanted, the school should’ve been informed of her ‘belief’ that she’s happier with traditionally boy characteristics but continue to live as the female she is. She should be helped to understand that she is female but that it is OK to live her life doing the male things she enjoys, right now that may be toy soldiers, mud and WWF instead of dolls, make-up and ? (sorry don’t know any girls TV). In a few years it could be cars, football and sex with girls instead of clothes, Desperate Housewives and sex with boys.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think few of the people contributing to this discussion could possibly pretend to understand this individual's sense of self and identity, or even the concept of gender identity in general. There are a whole bunch of very smart people who spend their careers working on this and still have discovered only a little about how we become who we are, and why.

For myself, in all honesty my first reaction to the first article was revulsion (Why are her PARENTS doing this to HER), then curiosity because the first article was so incomplete. I didn't have enough info but I felt angry at the parents. It's natural, I suppose, though a little embarassing in retrospect. After reading the second article, it seemed to make a lot of sense. People need to have patience with one another - in these sort of circumstances it is nearly impossible to put oneself in the other's shoes. I sometimes fear and dislike what I don't understand, but when given the opportunity to learn I become more comfortable with and sympathetic to a person who may be very different from myself and what I've been taught is acceptable or normal.

How can people expect to feel or know what this person is feeling? To truly understand the differences between being a man and a woman, I guess you'd have to live one life as each. This youngster is caught in the middle of a struggle for identity and a struggle for acceptance in an unforgiving world. I still don't completely understand it (who does?), but I sympathize and respect his courage and that of the parents. I'd rather have him go with his feelings than live a life fearfully hiding his true self.

 

[vniow]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can form so many strong opinions about things they know next to nothing about.

The problem is allowing a child to re-assign their gender identity at age 9. The mind of a child, at age 9, can hardly be expected to understand the differences between sex, gender, and sexual orientation.

BS.

5. That is the average age at which children who have gender issues knows there's something going on. Its in fact exceedingly rare that one discovers their gender issues later in life. They may not act on them until middle-age but they can remember wanting to be a boy/girl since childhood.

The child needs to know that you can have masculine tendencies and still be a girl. Healthy human beings have a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. Some men are more feminine than some women, and some women are more masculine than some men.

Okay, there's some things that you're getting at here but I'm not sure if you're putting these into the right words. There's a difference between masculine tendencies and wanting to actually be male. Just because one transitions from one gender to another doesn't mean they are going to be stereotypically inclined to be at the same levels that society thinks their masculine/feminine traits should be. As far as MTFs go for example, I'm pretty butch. Dresses and skirts make me uncomfortable and I much prefer suits and ties. I don't have a lot of feminine mannerisms and dress pretty andogynously much of the time. I'm still more femme than not I would say but bust because I'm transitioning to female doesn't mean I'm automatically going to be this femmey straight girl. I'm more of a genderqueer dyke than that any day of the week.

This is a great example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. This little girl is in for a world of hurt. I honestly feel bad for the whole family, and hope they get some better advice.

*yawn*

It never ceases to amaze me what craziness goes on in the world.

See first line of this post.

But why does this girl or her family expect me to join in with the pretence that she is a boy?

Respect.

If we are going to accept that male and female should be treated differently (which is an issue in its self) this girl should be treated as that, a girl.

This confuses me. See below.

By that I mean she gets the same education as all the other children whether male or female, she should get the same opportunities as all the other children whether male or female AND she needs to live by the same social rules as all the other children whether male or female.

If being treated as a girl (theoretically) means that one will be teated as an equal, then why do you say above that this child should be treated as a girl when as you say here, it doesn't make any difference?

She IS a girl

Wrong.

and she should use the female bathroom and shower. In the 2nd article linked there’s an explanation that she’ll use her own bathroom at school what about at the weekend when she goes to Burger King with her group of friends?

There's a seperate bathroom at school because its actually safer to use than the boys or the girls because trans children often get harrased in either room. In the rest of the world we make comprimises. I really don't give a **** which bathroom I use personally, whichever's closer I guess, depending on what I'm wearing of course.[/quote]

I know that the medical profession will say there’s a difference between her condition and homosexuality but for the sake of a quick example should gay males use female restrooms and lesbians use the gents? It just doesn’t make sense. If we’re going to blur the differences between the sexes than why not have one bathroom for all? What is so wrong with that?

Quite honestly I fail to see the need for seperate places to piss but that's just me.

In my opinion this girl should have been allowed to wear what she wanted, be called what she wanted, the school should’ve been informed of her ‘belief’ that she’s happier with traditionally boy characteristics but continue to live as the female she is. She should be helped to understand that she is female but that it is OK to live her life doing the male things she enjoys, right now that may be toy soldiers, mud and WWF instead of dolls, make-up and ? (sorry don’t know any girls TV). In a few years it could be cars, football and sex with girls instead of clothes, Desperate Housewives and sex with boys.

Ugh, the amount of gender stereotypes in this paragraph makes me want to

 

[vniow]

Thank you Blue Velvet! Seriously, I got like five comments into this thread and was ready to launch into a serious tirade that would most certainly get this thread pushed into the political forum. Instead, I read your comment.

Jeez folks this is the 21st century, some of the comments on this thread so far are more befitting of the dark ages.

Yeah, no kidding. That's why I've shyed away from this thread until now.

My partner works at an LGBT youth organization in San Francisco

Sweet. Which one?

-Ani

 

[gekko513]

Thanks for joining the thread vniow.

 

[zelmo]

I think it is sad that any person has to suffer the pain and confusion of not being comfortable in their own skin, or feel ashamed because he or she is not living up to society's expectations of who they are supposed to be.
I applaud the parents and school administrators for their courageous positions in this matter. I just hope that no one is leading this young person down the wrong road.

Being a parent, I will say that I don't want my children to grow up as anything that is considered wildly variant from society's suppressive standards. The reason is simple - I love my children. I will gladly give my life for them. I do not want them to have to suffer the morons who would suppress or harm them, or label them as different out of fear and ignorance. I want my children to have a happy life, with all possibilities open to them. If they are gay, they are gay. That will make me sad, not because I am against gays, but because I know they will be in for some bad treatment from people who are cruel, ignorant, or both.

Why is it so hard for some to accept people and let them live their own life?