Monaco GP Thread '06

[Counterfit]

Right, so Fernie's on pole, thanks to Schumacher getting tossed to the back, which is complete ********. From the 2006 FIA Sporting Regulations:

116) If, in the opinion of the stewards, a driver deliberately stops on the circuit or impedes another driver in any way during the qualifying practice session his times will be cancelled.

From the article:

Their finding was that Schumacher had no justifiable reason for braking so hard, as he had been traveling little or no quicker than at the same point on previous laps. They therefore concluded that he deliberately stopped his car on the circuit, an infringement of the sporting regulation

What kind of ****ed up logic is that? Braking harder -> deliberately stopping your car, even though you spun, and the engine stalled on its own to prevent overheating? Real smooth guys. I think it's time to do away with different stewards at each race, and have the same group at each one, for consistency and reasonable actions.

 

[bursty]

Schumi got screwed. Flabio and Alonso are whiney pieces of *****.

Should make for a great race

 

[netdog]

Schumi didn't stuggle through the corner. He parked the car. Watch the video. The car's telemetry data clearly supports that finding and every other team in the paddock believed that Schumi had done this intentionally. It was a shameful manouever and Schumi got what he deserved.

 

[mfacey]

It was very clear that Schumi forced the car to lock up and understeer. You could see it just from the way the on-board camera registered his steering actions. You can see he tried to snap to the right, which everybody knows induces understeer. Not surprisingly he thus went straight on. He also had plenty of time to engage reverse, but hesistated enough for traffic to come up behind.

Its a very suspicious move from Schumacher, and not very sportsman-like. Then again he's also the only person in the field that I wouldn't put such an action past. He's done plenty of unsporty things in the past. What's to keep him from doing it again?

 

[netdog]

It was very clear that Schumi forced the car to lock up and understeer. You could see it just from the way the on-board camera registered his steering actions. You can see he tried to snap to the right, which everybody knows induces understeer. Not surprisingly he thus went straight on. He also had plenty of time to engage reverse, but hesistated enough for traffic to come up behind.

Its a very suspicious move from Schumacher, and not very sportsman-like. Then again he's also the only person in the field that I wouldn't put such an action past. He's done plenty of unsporty things in the past. What's to keep him from doing it again?

Yes, who can forget when Ferarri ordered Rubens to pull over and let Schumi by in Austria. Schumi could have refused to pass. What is Todt going to do? Punish him?

It's true that Ferarri is not alone in cheating. BAR was caught out last year for ballast issues and suspended for a number of races, including Monaco, and they were only suspended because they were the ones that were caught...um...aggressively interpreting the rules. Still there is a big difference between pushing the rules and an on track tactic like Ferarri pulled yesterday. They got what they deserved.

 

[takao]

well

1.he brakes too hard (on his outlap ?)
2. he did "illogical" steering movements (watch his 2. "back to straight" movement)
3.and then he let the engine stop (because if not he would have been able to make the corner)

and all from a 7 times champion on his outlap while his biggest competitor just was making his fastest lap


niki lauda's first reaction on german TV was "he will have to do a lot of explaining"

and now we have the result after the stewards checked all the data/telemetry from the car etc. and no he has to live with it .. but i somehow doubt he will change and not pull any tricks in the future

 

[bartelby]

Thank god Shumacher got penalised for cheating!
There's no way in the world that was driver error.
You could see him lying in the press conference.


Jean Todt's a tosser!

Ferrari are way whinier than any other team. I bet if Alonso had cheated in the same way and it affected Ferrari, they'd want the team banned from racing at all!!!

 

[MacRy]

Quality quote from Flavio about Schumacher's blatant cheating:

"Someone who was seven times a world champion wants us to believe that he didn't do it on purpose - it's fairyland. Given that we are not Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, I think that what he did was unsporting."

LOL.

You don't have to be a psychologist to see that he was so obviously lying in the press conference. He couldn't have looked any more guilty if he had been wearing a big hat with GUILTY written on the front of it, with a procession of tiny dancing girls gyrating around the brim singing 'Michael is guilty, Michael is guilty!'

He has form for this kind of thing after all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/5024532.stm

 

[iGav]

My take... it was a genuine mistake going in to Rascasse, the car was well out of shape with oversteer... then he understeered off (his steering movements make sense to me at least) the problem is that he parked it when he could have continued.

Got to be a penalty I'm afraid, whether it's too harsh... that's up for discussion, it could set a dangerous precedent though.

What's really incredible however is that I'm still reading comments on the web about how Ferrari and Schumacher continue to be unfairly favoured by the FIA, Stewards, god etc etc, I cannot remember a driver that has suffered as many penalties as has been applied to Schumacher. Really... these people couldn't have hacked F1 in the '80's and 'early '90's.

It's true that Ferarri is not alone in cheating.

Was it Ferrari or was it Schumacher though?

But you're right... just look at McLaren and Renault all last season.

But either way... there goes any opportunity of a race today which makes me

 

[adk]

Hey, how can I watch this race on TV in the US?

 

[bartelby]

You don't have to be a psychologist to see that he was so obviously lying in the press conference. He couldn't have looked any more guilty if he had been wearing a big hat with GUILTY written on the front of it, with a procession of tiny dancing girls gyrating around the brim singing 'Michael is guilty, Michael is guilty!'

hahaha.

He nearly went as red as his race suit. I love the way he was talking perfectly normally until they asked what happened. All of a sudden he's stuttering and "Erm"ing a lot and looking very uncomfortable.

 

[iGav]

hahaha.

He nearly went as red as his race suit. I love the way he was talking perfectly normally until they asked what happened. All of a sudden he's stuttering and "Erm"ing a lot and looking very uncomfortable.

I thought he looked more sheepish than anything after making a silly mistake. But I don't believe he gives a f**k about what other people think either.

Though it's good to see that xenophobia is still alive and kicking in the English press.

Redeemed himself perfectly today though... starts from the pitlane, overtakes 9 cars on a track that is almost impossible to overtake on, and finishes 5th... will he get the same kind of coverage for todays performance I wonder?

Shame about Kimi and Webber, that was looking like a potentially good battle for the victory... loved Kimi just walking back to his yacht though rather than even attempting to go back to the pits

I wonder if Fisichella's going to get punished for holding up Webber for 2 laps ignoring blue flags and generally not being the assistive of other drivers???

 

[Counterfit]

Nice show from Schumi (note to Ralph Shaheen, he STARTED FROM THE PIT LANE, NOT THE BACK ROW YOU STUPID ****! God damn I hate CBS. ), getting fast lap, and this time almost passing Rubens on the last lap.

I registered most of my issues with Schumi's penalty in my first post, but here some some replies:

He also had plenty of time to engage reverse, but hesistated enough for traffic to come up behind.

Oh yes, because backing up even more into traffic when you can't see is a great idea. On a similar note, the marshals at Monaco really suck. From Webber's fire in '04 (when he had to extinguish the fire himself), and the fires today, and just the slow response to incidents in general, they could stand to use some practice (why the FIA insists on using volunteers, instead of having Bernie pony up some cash is beyond me).

He killed the engine/let it stop/etc.

I would not be surprised at all if it cut out because of either: 1.) Temperature monitor in the engine cutting it to prevent overheating or 2.) He really did have trouble going into reverse (and he would know better than anyone on ****ing Mac forum), and it stalled.

Everyone keeps going on like it's impossible for him to make a mistake. We only need to go back to Australia to see that it's obviously false. Same with Europe '03, Monaco and US '00, etc. Just out of curiosity, I would like to know how many people posting "Schumi cheated" etc. are from the UK, because that would explain a lot to me. I'd reply to bartelby's post, put that would end up with me breaking several of the forum's rules, so I think I'll refrain from doing so.

Q: (Paolo Ianieri – La Gazzetta dello Sport) A question to the three of you: what do you think of the judgement that was taken yesterday by the stewards regarding Schumacher? Was it correct or too hard? What is your position?
DC: I can answer that first – I don’t think about it. I don’t think about it. You asked me what I think about it – I don’t. That’s the only answer I’ve got.
FA: (The) same.. I don’t want to say anything.
JPM: Really it’s, you know, it’s hard to say - from the stewards’ point of view he made something wrong and he got penalised for it. That’s it. Simple. Last year, they thought I did something wrong and I didn’t think I did and I still got penalised. It’s just racing you know. You make a mistake, or whatever it was, and that’s it.

I like that. DC doesn't really care, Fernie is just happy he got pole and won, and JPM (who probably has Schumi figured out better than anyone, see: Europe '03, Spa '05) says "Tough luck dude".*

Now, if I recall last year's Monaco GP correctly, Alonso TWICE cut the Nouvelle Chicane in defending his position from Webber (who will probably be fined for not replacing his steering wheel. Oops ), with no penalty, and barely any mention anywhere that I've seen. This really just reinforces my belief that to most Brits, anyone who beats Schumi is not subject to the scrutiny that he is.

And more proof that Coulthard has the best sense of humor on the grid:

Q: (Damien Smith - Autosport) A question for David: apparently on television before the race, Christian Horner said that if Red Bull scored a podium today he would jump in the harbour naked. Are you going to make sure he goes through with that?
DC: Well, he did tell me, when I was doing the slowing-down lap, that it was actually to jump in the pool at the energy centre naked so my advice was to give his ‘wally’ a good rub before he does it because if you are going to get photographed naked you want to look as favourable as possible.

*Recall that at Brazil '03(?), JPM had gotten penalized for contact between him and Schumi, which resulted in Schumi needing a new nose. In the press conference, Michael described it as a racing incident, and stated that a penalty was unnecessary.

 

[iTwitch]

Quality quote from Flavio about Schumacher's blatant cheating:

I wonder how much Schumacher learnt from Flavio?

 

[xper]

Well good race but i wanted Raikkonen to be on pole, i feel sorry for the dude that he dont have a car that can deliver more than it does.

Counterfit: Dont be such a Ferrari fanboy.

 

[bartelby]

I would like to know how many people posting "Schumi cheated" etc. are from the UK, because that would explain a lot to me. I'd reply to bartelby's post, put that would end up with me breaking several of the forum's rules, so I think I'll refrain from doing so.

No, go on say what you think!

Because it'd explain a lot to me!!

 

[MacRy]

No, go on say what you think!

Because it'd explain a lot to me!!

Indeed! I too would like to hear what he has got to say about this statement because if he is accusing me of being racist in any way then he is an idiot and can go fornicate with himself!

 

[iGav]

Indeed! I too would like to hear what he has got to say about this statement because if he is accusing me of being racist in any way then he is an idiot and can go fornicate with himself!

Not that I wish to answer for Counterfit, but I took it that he was implying that the English (in particular) dislike Schumacher for what happened in 1994, as opposed to inferring that anyone is racist.

Though unfortunately, and particularly when it comes to someone like Schumacher, whom is not only successful but also German... the xenophobic undercurrent that frequently bubbles under the surface here in the U.K. raises it's somewhat ugly head, we'll see it during the World Cup, they'll be the usual references to WWII etc etc. makes me ashamed to be British, it really does.

 

[adk]

If anybody saw the in car camera during schu's "accident" it shows him turning the wheel to enter the turn, straightening it out for a second, and then turning it hard again. Even if it was because of understeer, a driver as good as schumacher would not overcorrect that blatantly. Also, add to the fact that only one driver didn't think he did it on purpose, (barichello I think) and he just said "I don't know."

 

[iGav]

If anybody saw the in car camera during schu's "accident" it shows him turning the wheel to enter the turn, straightening it out for a second, and then turning it hard again. Even if it was because of understeer, a driver as good as schumacher would not overcorrect that blatantly. Also, add to the fact that only one driver didn't think he did it on purpose, (barichello I think) and he just said "I don't know."

When you watch it at full speed as he enters Rascasse he gets oversteer (he corrects that with with a bit of opposite lock) this puts him out of shape for the rest of the corner, he then turns in again to take the corner whilst briefly locking the right front.

The controversial bit is next... what it looks like he's then doing to me is that he straightens up to counter the initial understeer (also not lock up and understeer into the barrier and flatspot his tyres) but also to make sure the rear right wheel doesn't hit the barrier as he exits the corner because he was taking a much tighter line through Rascasse than usual. Then he turns in again and the understeer is all too apparent, he can't make the corner, and stops just before the barrier.

I think that it was a legitimate error caused by a duff entry into Rascasse myself, but I suspect he could've got out of it if he had really wanted too, and would've had it been the last race of the season and he was fighting for for the WDC.

That said... this is only getting the attention that it is, because it's Schumacher, I've lost count of the crashes there in the past with similar kind of errors, which makes some of the comments by the press and other drivers beyond crap.

Had this been Kimi or Alonso doing the same, no one would've batted an eyelid, indeed... was there a similar kind of uproar when Kimi went off track at last years qualifying run at the German GP after his fast lap had finished, thus spreading dirt all over the first corner... and the next runner just happened to be the one man capable of taking pole, Alonso???

 

[bartelby]

Not that I wish to answer for Counterfit, but I took it that he was implying that the English (in particular) dislike Schumacher for what happened in 1994, as opposed to inferring that anyone is racist.

I can't see how saying that would break any forum rules!!!!


I just don't like Schumacher. Whilst he is a very talented driver he does have a nasty streak. There are plenty of dubious incidents he's involved in. I wouldn't put it past him to try anything, he's losing the championship by a long way.
I don't like him, Ross Brawn or Jean Todt. They've brought F1 into disrepute on more than one occasion!


EDIT: I've just watched that clip. To me it looks like there's more than enough room between the barrier and his left tyre to complete the turn. He just doesn't bother.

Anyway it's only a game. No point getting worked up about it.

 

[iGav]

I can't see how saying that would break any forum rules!!!!

But he could have said it in such a way, using langauge that could of

As I said though... I didn't want to answer for him, I just wanted to say what I thought he meant, I certainly didn't get the impression he was about to call everyone in the UK a bunch of closet, racist, xenophobes, that hate Schumacher because he put Hill in the wall and robbed him of the World Championship... and is German.

I just don't like Schumacher. Whilst he is a very talented driver he does have a nasty streak. There are plenty of dubious incidents he's involved in. I wouldn't put it past him to try anything, he's losing the championship by a long way.

What gets me is how Alonso has come out all high and mighty... really Alonso of all people shouldn't come and take the moral high ground.

EDIT: I've just watched that clip. To me it looks like there's more than enough room between the barrier and his left tyre to complete the turn. He just doesn't bother.

It's not the tyre though... it's the wing that would've hit, clear to see from elevated footage of the incident.

That said, I still think he could've gotten out of it had he wanted too, but then... he still would've caused yellows, and he would've had to reverse on the circuit... and he probably would've been penalised for that too.

Anyway it's only a game. No point getting worked up about it.

I thought the whole thing was hilarious, it's just a shame that he wasn't given the benefit of the doubt, and it's a shame that in the same instance that Kimi and Webber weren't reliable too, it would've been a pukka race then

 

[bartelby]

It's not the tyre though... it's the wing that would've hit, clear to see from elevated footage of the incident.

Guess who forgot about the front wing

 

[iGav]

Guess who forgot about the front wing

Though I reckon had he have just kissed the wall and damaged the wing, he would've been able to change that in parc ferme, and he probably would've got away with it too as it would've looked far more legit. heheh.

 

[iTwitch]

Now that the race is over and Schu managed to bag 4 points Whitemarsh and at least one other asshat thinks he should have been banned from the race.