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More Claims of NFC Capabilities in 'Coming Iteration' of iPhone

tbobmccoy said:
NFC of credit card information scares me just a little. Thieves can easily walk by someone, "brush" into them and retrieve this information. I'm glad I have a passport that was created before the NFCs were installed so I don't have to worry about it. Alternatively, this will make the market for lead iPhone cases boom... :rolleyes:
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On the contrary, a smartphone based NFC is a lot more secure than one on a credit card or passport. Those are passive systems that are activated by the proximity to an energy source (the reader) where as an iPhone NFC system would be active. You could turn it off completely when not in use and even require a pin be input into your phone to authorize the transaction.

An example: you go to your local coffee house, pull your phone out to pay, scan over the reader and a pop up asks: "Payment $3 to Starbucks? OK | Cancel". For larger payments, you'd be required to input a PIN. Also, you could turn off the NFC chip completely and require that you open an app before scanning your phone.

It's very safe.
 
NFC has lots of uses beyond just credit cards -- you could theoretically deploy it at stadiums and concerts for people to use their phones as their tickets, on office buildings / gyms in place of access cards, or at stores like Kroger and CVS in place of those damned key barcodes for shopper cards.

It's a neat tech that could, as people have pointed out, reduce or eliminate the need to carry a wallet for anything other than a driver's license / ID in the future.

Having said that, it's not nearly enough of a reason to get me to buy an iPhone 5 with the knowledge that the iPhone 6 will likely be the first implementation of LTE / 4G. It'd be silly to cripple yourself with a piece of hardware & 2 year service agreement that's already dated in terms of network access.
 
lostngone said:
And they said the Titanic was unsinkable...
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Nothing is full proof. I'm just demonstrating that the fear of passive NFC systems is not applicable to active systems. An active system requires the phone to intentionally broadcast its presence, therefore it requires user intervention. Of course a hacked system is possible so I wouldn't advise people jailbreak an NFC equipped iPhone.

It would be relatively easy for a rogue developer to slip in code that broadcasts NFC info on demand from a remote location. A hacker would just activate their code and go for a walk in a crowded city, picking up info and authorizing payments.

Within the walled garden of the App store, this is very unlikely as Apple will be ensuring that apps aren't capable of doing that.
 
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Number 41 said:
Having said that, it's not nearly enough of a reason to get me to buy an iPhone 5 with the knowledge that the iPhone 6 will likely be the first implementation of LTE / 4G. It'd be silly to cripple yourself with a piece of hardware & 2 year service agreement that's already dated in terms of network access.
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Over dramatic. TEch changes fast no matter when you buy.

ANd you will hardly be cripped owning an iPHone 5 for 2 years.
 
dwman said:
Another industry getting upended courtesy of Apple. This time it's credit card companies who are most deserving. Your iTunes acct will basically become a prepaid credit card.
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Yeah, and you won't even have to calculate the tip as Apple will add 30% automatically. :)
 
Unless there is some new roll-out tie-in with something a LOT of people use all the time, it will be a useless feature.

Like the Compass. Big whoop.
 
I'm curious about what would happen if ur phone got stolen, or if someone just picked it up at a bar and handed it to the waitress to pay your tab, that kind of stuff worries me because of how accessible we all keep our phones typically on a table or bar top.

I've been wondering if Apple was going to charge a premium for this service liek their app store(30% fee), I guess only time will tell....
 
ipedro said:
On the contrary, a smartphone based NFC is a lot more secure than one on a credit card or passport. Those are passive systems that are activated by the proximity to an energy source (the reader) where as an iPhone NFC system would be active. You could turn it off completely when not in use and even require a pin be input into your phone to authorize the transaction.

An example: you go to your local coffee house, pull your phone out to pay, scan over the reader and a pop up asks: "Payment $3 to Starbucks? OK | Cancel". For larger payments, you'd be required to input a PIN. Also, you could turn off the NFC chip completely and require that you open an app before scanning your phone.

It's very safe.
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Well if they make it this way, then I won't go all Chicken Little on the idea, but I doubt I'd still use it. Certainly much better than the passive NFC devices on my AmEx (which I shorted out) and the new passports.
 
I'm not going to base my decision on buying a phone on an immature technology like NFC being available or not, but I would think that it would be in Apple's best interest to at least include the NFC chip so that their software can activate it when they are ready. With 2 (or even 3 in some countries) year contracts, if you have the hardware available, put it in, even if you aren't using it yet.
 
toddybody said:
Call me paranoid...but all this consolidation is kinda creeping me out. Why not just implant something in my hand, so I can wave it to grab a coffee at Starbucks? It would go great with the bar code on the back of my neck...
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I'd be more worried about credit fraud than the bilderburgers.
 
toddybody said:
Call me paranoid...but all this consolidation is kinda creeping me out. Why not just implant something in my hand, so I can wave it to grab a coffee at Starbucks? It would go great with the bar code on the back of my neck...
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lostngone said:
I have a real problem with RF and security. I can not sit across the street and read data off a conventional mag stripe CC. RF is another story.

With things like RFID, for the most part you can add another layer of security with simple shielding. However you still run the risk of attacks when you remove it for use.

However with NFC in a phone you have a lot more ways to exploit it. You really can't shield it like RFID however as long as it can be securely turned off it "should" accomplish the same thing.
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You guys know that the Japanese and South Koreans have been using this type of technology since 2005? Without major trauma or security breaches? I guess not.

What? No nightmare stories from Southeast Asia? Aw shucks, apparently, those guys figured it out.

This is 2011. It's okay if the United States considers this type of technology. And maybe some forum readers should expand their worldview beyond this country's borders.
 
ThunderSkunk said:
I thought we were all supposed to have bar-codes tattooed on our foreheads for this sort of thing. Or is putting your head on a flatbed scanner at the grocery store too inconvenient? People these days, I swear.

I get the mark of the beast! I get the mark of the beast!

hee haw
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Why are you promoting old technology?

The Qualcomm "Intellichip" (ichip) gets implanted behind your ear. It is gesture and motion sensitive, so shaking your head will be interpreted as : NO and nodding is YES, charge me.

It will send your itunes ibrary content directly into your brain, via "Hairplay"

Don't know what sneezing does, but Apple will figure that out in future iosbrainware release.

As you know Apple wants us to buy more chips down the road, hence only a little step at a time.

There will also be a Retina upgrade for your own eyes and the chip comes in black or white, so every race can be happy:)

This is info from the friend of a friend's friend, who knows that first friend's friend!
 
cvaldes said:
You guys know that the Japanese and South Koreans have been using this type of technology since 2005? Without major trauma or security breaches? I guess not.

What? No nightmare stories from Southeast Asia? Aw shucks, apparently, those guys figured it out.

This is 2011. It's okay if the United States considers this type of technology. And maybe some forum readers should expand their worldview beyond this country's borders.
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And.....

What is your point?

Are you saying that just because the neighbors used it that it must be safe?

I am sure that the "cvaldes" guarantee is worth its weight in gold!

Look at Chip&Pin was absolutely safe... Well that is until someone proved otherwise.
 
cvaldes said:
You guys know that the Japanese and South Koreans have been using this type of technology since 2005? Without major trauma or security breaches? I guess not.

What? No nightmare stories from Southeast Asia? Aw shucks, apparently, those guys figured it out.
Click to expand...

Korea and Japan are Northeast Asia. Southeast Asia is Burma, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, etc. That's like calling Finland 'Eastern Europe."

Properly implemented NFC is secure.

Re: the story, I wouldn't be surprised if the source of the rumormongering happens to be a people working for NFC related industries try to inflate stock prices.
 
Why was there ever a rumor of the ipad2 having one. Didn't anyone ever think, would it be more convenient to carry around and press a 10"x7" device into a reader, or slide this 2"x3" card through a slot? I mean, the iphone is one thing, but personally i'm far more likely to be carrying a wallet with a credit card in it, than an ipad when i go shopping.
 
tbobmccoy said:
NFC of credit card information scares me just a little. Thieves can easily walk by someone, "brush" into them and retrieve this information. I'm glad I have a passport that was created before the NFCs were installed so I don't have to worry about it. Alternatively, this will make the market for lead iPhone cases boom... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

As I understand it the NFC only releases a public key for the transaction at hand. That key is built off an internal device key and the transaction details. Unless there is a exploit that can give up the private key the bump and go attack is fairly useless. The receiver would need a valid merchant account in order to get the NFC to connect to the Credit Provider generate a transaction key which get them to release the funds. This would be pretty ease to track and a few dodgy cases and the Credit Provider has a very solid fraud case against the Merchant.

On top of that it's not hard for them to add further layers of security. Like requiring the app to active and only allowing one transaction per App launch.Requiring a user code for larger transaction that you'd enter via your phone making it harder for a camera to capture your PIN as it doesn't have a fixed location to look at.

Compared to your current credit card which the details can be lifted by taking a good photo of your card. Then used to buy goods that can be fenced for cash, or tied to an anonymous paypal account or similar move funds to another account or through a couple and each time making it harder to track down the person.
 
lostngone said:
And.....

What is your point?

Are you saying that just because the neighbors used it that it must be safe?

I am sure that the "cvaldes" guarantee is worth its weight in gold!

Look at Chip&Pin was absolutely safe... Well that is until someone proved otherwise.
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I think they're saying that it's been implemented effectively for a while. Everything has imperfections, but a lot of people are screaming about how bad this is when just about everything up until this point has been fine.

No one's saying it'll be a perfect system, but it is used and there are Android and regular phones with NFC, so Apple should jump on board with the option.
 
Apple will probably include this and then disable or cripple it because they're afraid someone will figure out how to use it to transfer music.
 
There's a reason why you will see NFC on the iPhone 5: improve sales prospects in Japan, South Korea and Hong Kong, where NFC payments based on the Sony-developed FeliCa system are very common on "feature" cellphones and special identity cards.

That way, you would launch an app on your iPhone just before you swipe the phone in front of an NFC reader so you could pay for transit system access (PASMO in Tokyo, Suica on JR East trains, Octopus Card in Hong Kong) or do small merchant payments (nanaco for 7-Eleven stores in Japan, Octopus Card in Hong Kong).
 
Surely the hardware could easily be added in time for the iPhone 5 launch, and even if the backup security software was not quite ready for release, once it is acceptable then a simple iOS update could enable the NFC capability
 
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