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More Countries Implement Apple/Google API in Contact Tracing Apps, Including Germany, Poland, and Saudi Arabia
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Well, we can thank Apple and Google for coding and implementing the API so fast. But don't blame them for not writing an app; I guess they want it done by official authorities (like the RKI did here in Germany).
And remember, this app is just a puzzle piece, it's not there to completely stop the pandemic. Because the infection numbers here are so low right now it will probably only be useful if a second wave is going on.
Since the numbers in the US are still very bad it would make sense that the government (not the states) would release an app.
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Well, you should read about how the system works before writing stuff like that. The app needs a QR code that is delivered in writing with the laboratory test result. A positive COVID-19 test result (meaning you have COVID-19 and may be transmitting the virus) must be encoded in the QR code to be fool- or should I say prank-proof? This is crucial as folks would certainly use the app to scare the hell out of everyone by deliberately sending false alarms... So, there is no way you can solve this by tech alone, you need to design a whole system around it...
I have not checked the details yet, but look for "DP-3T" if you are interested in how this works.
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From what little I know about the DP-3T procedure, this might be easily solved technically and might not even be a problem at all (among the DP-3T-using countries). BUT I haven't checked and your scenario is legit and needs to be checked - better safe than sorry.
Edit: I just checked https://www.epfl.ch/campus/security...navirus-covid19/swisscovid-app-trial-at-epfl/ and it seems your described scenario is indeed problematic. Again, I did not a thorough check, so take this with a grain of salt...
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You need some local authority to issue ‘certificates’ to those having been tested positive. Somebody who can check whether a lab is legit and whether the person trying to register a positive test result is actually the user/owner of the phone. National or regional health authorities are the ones to set up and oversee such a system. It is the individual app created by each country that implements such a system and will phone home to confirm that eg a QR code is legit. Moreover, the server which holds the random indentifiers of those having tested positive is also controlled by the national health authorities. Apple or Google running a global server for this wouldn’t help with trust issues.
Having to download multiple apps is hardly an issue (how many apps in total have you installed on your phone right now?). The problem currently is that if you get tested positive in one country, you couldn’t register that result with any of the apps from different countries. But that is something that can be worked out / added over time. Getting it to work on a national level is the first step.
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Right, and it may very well run afoul of medical privacy laws like GDPR and HIPAA... after all it's a system that broadcasts somebody's private health information. GDPR and consequent national laws, and HIPAA never anticipated such applications, so say in the US, you have to go wait until HHS reviews your system and makes a decision that it is anonymous and not a HIPAA violation.
Governments, by default, cannot violate laws (sovereign immunity), but Apple and Google certainly can.
Additionally, an app that tells you to seek medical treatment (get tested) may be classified as a medical device, requiring regulatory approval and the safety and reliability studies that entails. Governments can bypass that long process.
Related to reliability, you have the risk that the app doesn't work, somebody dies then their estate sues Apple and Google for millions. Again, governments are automatically protected against that by sovereign immunity.
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The whole concept of contact tracing, is an invasion of personal privacy. There are numerous doctors coming forward now from multiple countries, pointing out some very obvious lies surrounding the legitimacy and/or the actual "threat" level of the "virus". You can even compare yourself, by going on your government websites and looking at death rates from previous years, compared to this years. If there were an actual pandemic, how do you explain the death rates being +/- 1% of where they were previously?
The concept of contact tracing, like wearing a mask, still controlling businesses from re-opening (even though apparently, the curve had already been flattened months ago), riots are OK without masks, but gathering with friends in groups larger than 10 isn't, you can't do "drive by birthdays" with more than X number of cars etc. the list goes on of the ridiculousness - the concept, is to enforce more control over individuals who aren't awake enough to see the whole picture. This is happening around the world.
The "United Nations" is enforcing rules upon the world - last I checked, none of us voted for the UN. Yet even companies like MacRumors are adhering to their "standards". Does anyone not stop to think about what this really is? I would urge everyone to wake up a little and see these control measures for what they are. There is no pandemic, and there never was.
The concept of contact tracing, like wearing a mask, still controlling businesses from re-opening (even though apparently, the curve had already been flattened months ago), riots are OK without masks, but gathering with friends in groups larger than 10 isn't, you can't do "drive by birthdays" with more than X number of cars etc. the list goes on of the ridiculousness - the concept, is to enforce more control over individuals who aren't awake enough to see the whole picture. This is happening around the world.
The "United Nations" is enforcing rules upon the world - last I checked, none of us voted for the UN. Yet even companies like MacRumors are adhering to their "standards". Does anyone not stop to think about what this really is? I would urge everyone to wake up a little and see these control measures for what they are. There is no pandemic, and there never was.
There is many things to consider.
I was in contact with local body. They would like to use API but their current, even lame, solution support users back to iOS 11. But API require iOS 13.5. If Apple means it seriously, it will roll support at least for iOS 12 as well.
By netmarketshare, iOS 13 holds 81%. But !!! 13.5 is still just 0,5 %!
https://netmarketshare.com/
Other is that before all those apps will be ready, in many countries it will be no issue. In my region we have 10 active cases, down from 20. Of course there are still some new outbreaks in country but under control.
With seniors as vulnerable group, support for older iOS can be important as they can often be handed older devices from kids.
With reluctance of people to install such App it is question how much this effort is useful. I think it is but in countries where it is still hot issue or it is getting to be. Many countries looks like they are still on the beginning an no one know in which phase.
I was in contact with local body. They would like to use API but their current, even lame, solution support users back to iOS 11. But API require iOS 13.5. If Apple means it seriously, it will roll support at least for iOS 12 as well.
By netmarketshare, iOS 13 holds 81%. But !!! 13.5 is still just 0,5 %!
https://netmarketshare.com/
Other is that before all those apps will be ready, in many countries it will be no issue. In my region we have 10 active cases, down from 20. Of course there are still some new outbreaks in country but under control.
With seniors as vulnerable group, support for older iOS can be important as they can often be handed older devices from kids.
With reluctance of people to install such App it is question how much this effort is useful. I think it is but in countries where it is still hot issue or it is getting to be. Many countries looks like they are still on the beginning an no one know in which phase.
You should read everything I’ve said about the topic before writing stuff like that. This problem absolutely can be solved by tech. As I said before, the official COVID-19 test results which can’t be faked or falsified are available in the Health app simply by linking it to your personal Quest Diagnostics account (or any other compatible hospital or lab service). Attached is a screenshot of mine.
Yea because the ones who would use it won't take the poll, but the ones against sure as heck will.
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Either they won't use it, or once they test positive, they will use it and go near everyone.
1. There are no medical privacy issues as contact tracing on an iPhone is anonymous. Names are not disclosed or attached to the data. You are simply given information as to your proximity to others who tested positive and have that disclosure turned on in their phones.
2. There are no laws preventing the anonymous collection of aggregated health data. Especially when phone users are fully notified and given the option to opt out and turn it off.
3. Disclosiure of proximity to COVID-19 is information, not health advice. The Watch already has FDA approval to detect atrial fibrillation without giving out medical advice. This would be no different.
4. Lives will undoubtedly be saved by proximity disclosure, even if the app occasionally doesn’t work. Your logic that someone could die and sue because their Bluetooth radio failed and they weren’t disclosed of a proximity infection is easily addressed in a EULA, as it is not medical advice and should not be relied upon for safety... just as you’re instructed to be aware of your surroundings when backing up a car using the rear camera... or using Autopilot without keeping your hands on the wheel or paying attention.
Even with prank proof, someone positive could use the app and run around getting close to everyone. And since there is no concrete IDing, how do you know who is pulling this childish crap and stop them.
You aren't a lawyer for a trillion dollar company, and you're not potentially criminally liable for selling an unregistered medical device.
You're just saying that you think anonymous data is permissible. I highly doubt you're an expert on HIPAA and GDPR and Council Regulation 2017/745, nor do you have knowledge of medical device risk management and liability.
If you were the person at Apple who approved the software, and could potentially go to jail for breach of privacy and medical device laws, you'd think very differently. You'd want lawyer and governmental approval.
I never said it's not possible. If you've ever worked with governments, you'd know these things take far more time to progress than you'd think was reasonable.
Prank or no prank, I think anyone would want to know if this had happened to them and take appropriate protective action.
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Your response to my views are “you’re not an expert” instead of simply doing some research to fuel your disagreement? You know nothing about me. Try and debate topics based on facts instead of questioning my credibility without any reason to do so. And people don’t “go to jail” for breach of privacy. Companies are sued or fined. As I said... the Watch is approved for limited medical use already. iPhone COVID proximity detection is in the same ballpark. This is uncharted territory, and has chosen to pursue a conservative approach with government cooperation, but at the cost of lives. The last thing I would want is the government in charge of maintaining or having access to medical data of any kind, potentially using it to create mandatory quarantine concentration camps. I trust to handle this in-house and create the framework. Android already has a virus problem, so I certainly wouldn’t trust them to slow the spread of anything but their software updates.
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No need for your anger, bro. You've written yourself "... compatible hospital or lab service" which means that these hospitals etc. need to adapt to a message delivery system. It's not just Apple and Google impementing an API and everything works well... you need adjustments in other, non-Apple/Google systems as well, if you want a working process...
But ok. I am just happy the tech exists, because it is a very valuable tool to identify persons with the virus and breaking the infection routes. I am also very glad that Apple and Google implement a protocol that maximises privacy.
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To contribute and help society to prevent a massive COVID19 outbreak with lots of deaths?
This tech helps every member of the public to break or slow the infections. It's like crowd sourcing of projects... it's crowd slowing of a virus...
And you get positive karma points...
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Everything can be faked. For as long as humans are capable of lying, things can be faked and falsified. That can't be solved by tech. As a matter of fact, tech can make these issues infinitely worse - and governments know this, and the strange inherent trust a lot of people seem to have in tech and "test results" for some reason, as you've shown here in your post.
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I'm not interested in trust issues. It has been explained a million times how it's not a concern. Those that don't believe will never change their minds no matter how it's explained to them.
Off the top of my head, without even trying, I would have to install 20 apps just for the USA for the places I (used to) operate to. Then there is at least 50 other countries with multiple cities in different states within those countries and having to upload results to all of them. It's not logical. And whilst I am probably a minority in my profession - there a millions of future travellers. This of course doesn't help the people that live in destination areas in the event I am flagged. it wouldn't register in that state until the person I have given it to gets tested, by which time who knows how many others have been in close contact and this defeats the entire purpose of the system.
The only viable way is to have one upload location which downloads to the various local apps. (Actually I would prefer apple/google to be the only ones to inform contact traces. I don't see what local apps are supposed to accomplish)
At any rate, it's not a viable option for me and I would be considered in the high risk considering my travel requirements.
The trust aspect is a minor one but with it legal considerations can also play a role. In some countries laws had to be passed to even make the release of the app possible. Rules that certain data only be stored inside a country also exist in some places.
There will still be one location where you spend more time than in others. Installing the corresponding app is the least you can do (it’s what everybody else would be doing).
It also isn’t rocket science to link the national databases (of random identifiers of confirmed infections) at a later point in time. Rolling out the infrastructure for certifying labs and the labs certifying positive results requires boots on the ground that Apple and Google don’t have.
And this doesn’t have to be a 100% solution to be useful. It is also telling that you appear to put more trust/confidence into Apple and Google than the federal government in the U.S. for creating a national database.
Turn what on? You need a health agency to deliver infection data.
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It is in the OS (as of iOS 13.4). The individual per-region apps use the OS-provided API, but still need to talk to a server that contains infection data.
Turn on proximity tracking and alerts for infections verified by labs linked into phones. Quest Diagnostics has most of the infection data. They are not a health agency. And tracing can be done anonymously.