More Details on 'TomTom for iPhone' Emerge

[samab]

I am confident MOST people would highly prefer a one time price, which I think is why TomTom is leaning that way. Watch me be proven right as it becomes the number one sold nav app and basically all others switch to a one time cost model!

TomTom spent $2.5 billion buying one of the 2 map makers in the world --- thus along with Nokia (who spent $8 billion buying the other map maker) becomes the duopoly of the map market.

TomTom has a totally different business model than the rest of the GPS nav makers --- because the rest of the GPS nav makers have to pay TomTom for the maps.

 

[Krevnik]

I am confident MOST people would highly prefer a one time price, which I think is why TomTom is leaning that way. Watch me be proven right as it becomes the number one sold nav app and basically all others switch to a one time cost model!

There are only two subscription GPS apps on the iPhone right now:
AT&T Navigator and Gokivo

They sure as heck won't change from that model anytime soon, and TomTom won't convince them to change from that model either. Sygic, Navigon, and XROAD all are one-time fees, download maps to the device, and work okay for navigation.

The reason why I say they won't change is because the why they charge a subscription is unlikely to be threatened in the near term unless TomTom does something very out of character.

See, AT&T Navigator includes local search over the cellular network, traffic, gas prices, ratings of restaurants and so on. It even ensures you always have the latest maps because they are streamed over the cell network.

Historically, that sort of live feed requires a subscription of some kind in the stand alone units (MSN Direct for Garmin, and the new Live services, or some of the Home services for TomTom). Don't forget you have to pay for map upgrades on the stand alones.

If TomTom's model is anything like the model for the standalone (maybe some discounted pricing on the live services or included in the price if they just really want your business)... you will still need to pay for the map upgrades, whereas the AT&T Navigator will always use the latest map data they have paid for. The flip-side is that TomTom's model is also the one that will work out of range of a cell tower, whereas AT&T Navigator won't.

As I will be travelling outside of cell range on national park grounds, the TomTom app, or a stand alone unit is what I have to use. Because of the timing of everything, I wound up getting one of the nice 4.3" TomTom units. Now if I could write up a script to scrape AT&T WiFi hotspots off their website and create a TomTom POI DB, I'd be set.

 

[MacFly123]

There are only two subscription GPS apps on the iPhone right now:
AT&T Navigator and Gokivo

They sure as heck won't change from that model anytime soon, and TomTom won't convince them to change from that model either. Sygic, Navigon, and XROAD all are one-time fees, download maps to the device, and work okay for navigation.

The reason why I say they won't change is because the why they charge a subscription is unlikely to be threatened in the near term unless TomTom does something very out of character.

See, AT&T Navigator includes local search over the cellular network, traffic, gas prices, ratings of restaurants and so on. It even ensures you always have the latest maps because they are streamed over the cell network.

Historically, that sort of live feed requires a subscription of some kind in the stand alone units (MSN Direct for Garmin, and the new Live services, or some of the Home services for TomTom). Don't forget you have to pay for map upgrades on the stand alones.

If TomTom's model is anything like the model for the standalone (maybe some discounted pricing on the live services or included in the price if they just really want your business)... you will still need to pay for the map upgrades, whereas the AT&T Navigator will always use the latest map data they have paid for. The flip-side is that TomTom's model is also the one that will work out of range of a cell tower, whereas AT&T Navigator won't.

As I will be travelling outside of cell range on national park grounds, the TomTom app, or a stand alone unit is what I have to use. Because of the timing of everything, I wound up getting one of the nice 4.3" TomTom units. Now if I could write up a script to scrape AT&T WiFi hotspots off their website and create a TomTom POI DB, I'd be set.

I would rather pay a one time fee and have the choice of whether or not to purchase map updates every year or however often, then be charged every month for updates that I may very well not even need or notice.

 

[samab]

I would rather pay a one time fee and have the choice of whether or not to purchase map updates every year or however often, then be charged every month for updates that I may very well not even need or notice.

Different people have different usage patterns and different usage needs.

Some people just want to use nav apps during their summer trips in July/August plus a few long weekends --- the $10 a month and $3 a day subscriptions are perfect for them.

Some people finds the live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing very useful --- and you can only get them on a subsciption fee basis.

 

[Krevnik]

I would rather pay a one time fee and have the choice of whether or not to purchase map updates every year or however often, then be charged every month for updates that I may very well not even need or notice.

Which is all well and good mind you... but TomTom isn't going to kill the subscription model for GPS apps anytime soon. Not when they themselves currently charge 10$/month for similar features (gas prices, local live search, traffic) on their Live models, and MSN Direct on Garmin is the same sort of price structure.

10$ a month for a capable GPS app with the sort of OTA/Live update functionality is valuable. The people it is valuable to may not be you, but it doesn't have to be. It is this very reason that competition is a good thing. Different ways of doing business to appeal to different people who value different features more/less.

I was mostly addressing this point you made:

Watch me be proven right as it becomes the number one sold nav app and basically all others switch to a one time cost model!

I disagree with that point entirely, because AT&T and Gokivo are both offering up some nice value adds in exchange for the subscription price that will let them continue doing business without bowing down to the 'it must be one-time cost' crowd. Hell, they are cheaper than a TomTom or Garmin with Live/MSN Direct services added in, after one year or a decade, with the same map data as the Garmin.

If it wasn't for the fact that maps were streamed, and there is no data stored locally, requiring a cell connection, I'd happily keep the service. It has features that are compelling to me, but the lack of local caching is killer for me when I know I will be out of the cell network trying to use the thing.

That said, you are already pretty much right, because "basically all others" on the app store already are on a pay-once model... and to be honest, their POI data currently stinks. I hope TomTom for the iPhone has similar POI features that their stand-alone devices do and offer up a pay-once GPS iPhone app I'd actually /buy/. Right now the only ones worth paying for with US support right now /is/ the AT&T app. We'll see if TomTom can do the same for the stand-alone apps.

 

[SpaceKitty]

Problem with the all in one apps available now such as Sygic is that it does NOT have the most up to date maps. I bought Sygic Mobile Maps North America and it does not have the most current map like my Garmin Nuvi does. I have found several areas not updated at all showing new developments. I'm not so sure the subscription ones will either.

Sygic had an app update over the weekend that did not update the maps.

 

[Krevnik]

Sygic is probably not the best example. I've found that it's POI database is extremely poor, compared to stand-alone units (even the bargin ones). They don't even mention what map data they are based off of, so it is really hard to figure out what their problem is when your map doesn't work.

I do know that AT&T/Telenav is using Navteq data, and Telenav seems to be setup to get map updates on a regular schedule from Navteq. As the maps are pulled from their map server (a la Google Maps on the iPhone), you should always get the latest data they have accessible on their server, to any phone Telenav supports.

 

[Tunnelrunner]

Right now the only ones worth paying for with US support right now /is/ the AT&T app. We'll see if TomTom can do the same for the stand-alone apps.

First off, well written post. Second, I definitely agree with your point re: AT&T Navigator/Telenav. If people could get past the monthly fee, it is overall, the most solid, complete GPS App available for the iPhone in North America. I can't compare it to Navigon (since it hasn't been released here yet) but Telenav easily outclasses Sygic and is still superior to G-Map.

I have a feeling that the TomTom app will be of excellent quality when it finally comes out and that it will, along with Telenav (two VERY different business models of service), be the 2 best GPS Apps available for the iPhone for the foreseeable future -- at least until Hell freezes over and Garmin wisely decides to jump on the iPhone GPS App bandwagon...

 

[MacFly123]

Different people have different usage patterns and different usage needs.

Some people just want to use nav apps during their summer trips in July/August plus a few long weekends --- the $10 a month and $3 a day subscriptions are perfect for them.

Some people finds the live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing very useful --- and you can only get them on a subsciption fee basis.

Which is all well and good mind you... but TomTom isn't going to kill the subscription model for GPS apps anytime soon. Not when they themselves currently charge 10$/month for similar features (gas prices, local live search, traffic) on their Live models, and MSN Direct on Garmin is the same sort of price structure.

10$ a month for a capable GPS app with the sort of OTA/Live update functionality is valuable. The people it is valuable to may not be you, but it doesn't have to be. It is this very reason that competition is a good thing. Different ways of doing business to appeal to different people who value different features more/less.

I was mostly addressing this point you made:



I disagree with that point entirely, because AT&T and Gokivo are both offering up some nice value adds in exchange for the subscription price that will let them continue doing business without bowing down to the 'it must be one-time cost' crowd. Hell, they are cheaper than a TomTom or Garmin with Live/MSN Direct services added in, after one year or a decade, with the same map data as the Garmin.

If it wasn't for the fact that maps were streamed, and there is no data stored locally, requiring a cell connection, I'd happily keep the service. It has features that are compelling to me, but the lack of local caching is killer for me when I know I will be out of the cell network trying to use the thing.

That said, you are already pretty much right, because "basically all others" on the app store already are on a pay-once model... and to be honest, their POI data currently stinks. I hope TomTom for the iPhone has similar POI features that their stand-alone devices do and offer up a pay-once GPS iPhone app I'd actually /buy/. Right now the only ones worth paying for with US support right now /is/ the AT&T app. We'll see if TomTom can do the same for the stand-alone apps.

Ok how do we make a poll on here? I've never set one up before, but it looks like this would be a good one.

I am still confident most people would want a pay once model. So lets get a poll going and find out

From a business perspective and seeing your points of view I would say offer the app with local maps at a ONE TIME COST with the OPTION to buy map updates annually, OR OPTIONAL subscription for constant updates and other OTA features.

How does that sound?

 

[samab]

Ok how do we make a poll on here? I've never set one up before, but it looks like this would be a good one.

I am still confident most people would want a pay once model. So lets get a poll going and find out

From a business perspective and seeing your points of view I would say offer the app with local maps at a ONE TIME COST with the OPTION to buy map updates annually, OR OPTIONAL subscription for constant updates and other OTA features.

How does that sound?

From a business perspective, feature phones still represent 80-90% of the total cell phone market --- you can't kill the monthly subscription-based AT&T Navigator or VZ Navigator or Sprint Navigation where they are the only apps available.

 

[Tunnelrunner]

Ok how do we make a poll on here? I've never set one up before, but it looks like this would be a good one.

I am still confident most people would want a pay once model. So lets get a poll going and find out

From a business perspective and seeing your points of view I would say offer the app with local maps at a ONE TIME COST with the OPTION to buy map updates annually, OR OPTIONAL subscription for constant updates and other OTA features.

How does that sound?

Samab has been making a point which I think bears repeating: reality is a lot more complex than "one time payment good, monthly payment really bad!!!"

It depends on which GPS app you're referring to. It also depends on so many other variables: quality of the app, TTS, UI, etc. Don't get so stuck on the pricing model; that's only one part of the package. As it stands right now, if you live in North America, Telenav is, IMO, the most polished GPS app available for the iPhone. It is superior to any of the current one-time fee apps and I know for a fact that like all apps, Telenav (AND for that matter, Gokivo of Networks in Motion) are actively upgrading/fixing bugs for the second roll-out of their apps; they're actively improving their GPS apps as I type this.

As I said earlier, when TomTom launches, then there may finally be a "one-time fee" GPS app to challenge Telenav - but until then, AT&T boasts the most robust, fully-featured sat-nav app. I mean, as big a fan I am of G-Map, I would never for a second think that it could replace Telenav...

 

[Krevnik]

Ok how do we make a poll on here? I've never set one up before, but it looks like this would be a good one.

I am still confident most people would want a pay once model. So lets get a poll going and find out

Most people wanting X doesn't mean there isn't a good business model in Y. If you have a 30/70 split on your poll... focusing on the 30% which is getting ignored by most of the market is bound to be just as viable as fighting to get a cut of the 70%.

Apple themselves seem to prove that you don't need a majority of the market to make the business viable and worth pursuing.

From a business perspective and seeing your points of view I would say offer the app with local maps at a ONE TIME COST with the OPTION to buy map updates annually, OR OPTIONAL subscription for constant updates and other OTA features.

How does that sound?

That is up to a business to decide if it is worth pursuing both groups. And as I pointed out in my other posts, Garmin/TomTom offer subscriptions for updates and OTA features... in addition to the cost of the device itself. They are trying to pursue both groups. But because they are doing both (and are only so flexible in what they can accomplish), it leaves the door open for groups like Telenav to undercut them on the subscription cost, in exchange for a few things that aren't available in the Telenav app.

This isn't a bad situation for the customer to be in right now... you have choice of a few stand alone devices (albeit with Garmin/TomTom being the heavyweights here), and smartphones are letting new players enter the market with new ideas that would simply not work on stand alone devices, or would work very poorly.

And it isn't like I have anything against the stand-alone devices or a flat-fee up front... I own one because it fits my needs better than Telenav going forward. Doesn't mean Telenav and it's ilk isn't going to be valuable for a segment of the market. And TomTom showing up on the iPhone isn't gonna strong-arm them into changing their business model in the short-term.

 

[supmango]

i have this growing feeling that tom tom will blow it and charge way too much for it.

expectations high going into a release and most people's lack of putting big money towards a fancy gps system = fail.

I tend to agree. They are trying really hard to build suspense for the product, which usually means they are a little worried about how it will perform once released.

 

[Krevnik]

I tend to agree. They are trying really hard to build suspense for the product, which usually means they are a little worried about how it will perform once released.

Looking at the responses on this very thread on what they would personally pay, I'd also be worried if I was TomTom. Even if they offer it at a competitive price, there are a bunch of people here who would not shell out that price because they feel it would be too expensive. Considering map data is an ugly fixed cost per unit that really forces the software to be priced at certain price points (for most companies)... I don't see TomTom hitting those price points, and mix that with a sort of 'it is a small iPhone app, therefore it must be cheaper than desktop-side software' attitude to pricing on the iPhone, and TomTom is in a sort of darned if you do, darned if you don't position. Especially without trials for the more expensive stuff.

 

[applehappy]

Some people seem to think the pricing is going to be crazy, I think tomtom might get it right. I can go buy a stand-alone unit for $90 - $230 and that is with the hardware. So, even if they charge a hefty premium for the NAV 7 style s/w it would cost something like what Navigon's Europe product is set at $140, maybe a cheaper intro price. I wouldn't be surprised to see it sell for close to $100. They would be smart to sell it cheaper as they would sell many times more.
Then the mount, which has bluetooth speakerphone, aux out, power in/charging, and GPS built in. I think they will be charging a premium for that puppy. $50 sounds too low and $100 is too high in my mind.
Whatever is going on though, I wish tomtom would sell it already.

 

[neilp4453]

I'd be willing to shell out what it costs to own a dedicated TomTom unit....but that includes all the hardware TomTom is offering as well. I'd expect to pay even less considering I already own the main unit.

Otherwise...screw them.

 

[Londonluke]

Tomtom really need to do some serious "customer research" I paid to call them to ask if the 2g will work using their GPS cradle and mapping. The tech guy did not know. Thats a $6 call to ask a simple tech question .If he does not know that then whats the point??

 

[surferfromuk]

I think they're on the verge of blowing it - you were ready 12 months ago - your already 30 days late.

Navigon are cleaning up - wait another 3 months and they will be the uncatchable market leader.

 

[Tunnelrunner]

I think they're on the verge of blowing it - you were ready 12 months ago - your already 30 days late.

Navigon are cleaning up - wait another 3 months and they will be the uncatchable market leader.

While agree that TomTom needs to come out sooner vs. later, I still believe that their launch -- at least here in the US -- will be a successful one, since their competition as a whole, really isn't that great. Navigon is also taking a long time to get here. G-Map (no strangers themselves, to bad marketing mishaps) is a decent GPS app but a far cry from any fully-featured nav app; it's gotten better but still has a ways to go. Had the version seen in the Tap Critic video been released by now, then TomTom might have a problem but that's not the case. And Sygic was a disappointment, given the expectations. Gokivo, while boasting some great features in the first roll-out, still has some bugs/instability issues to work out. IMHO, the only GPS app in America that is of any true quality right now -- and thus, any threat at all to TomTom -- is AT&T Navigator/Telenav - and as pointed out earlier, they're kind of aimed at a different audience than TomTom anyway, due to the different pricing model/philosophy. So I think TomTom should do well. They've been extremely
fortunate that Navigon has been equally as slow. I just hope TomTom keeps their promise of "later this summer"...

 

[Londonluke]

While agree that TomTom needs to come out sooner vs. later, I still believe that their launch -- at least here in the US -- will be a successful one, since their competition as a whole, really isn't that great. Navigon is also taking a long time to get here. G-Map (no strangers themselves, to bad marketing mishaps) is a decent GPS app but a far cry from any fully-featured nav app; it's gotten better but still has a ways to go. Had the version seen in the Tap Critic video been released by now, then TomTom might have a problem but that's not the case. And Sygic was a disappointment, given the expectations. Gokivo, while boasting some great features in the first roll-out, still has some bugs/instability issues to work out. IMHO, the only GPS app in America that is of any true quality right now -- and thus, any threat at all to TomTom -- is AT&T Navigator/Telenav - and as pointed out earlier, they're kind of aimed at a different audience than TomTom anyway, due to the different pricing model/philosophy. So I think TomTom should do well. They've been extremely
fortunate that Navigon has been equally as slow. I just hope TomTom keeps their promise of "later this summer"...

Navigon with a little more money behind them and some clever guys running it could give Tomtom a good run for their money.
If they come up with a fantastic cradle for the 3gs etc complete with speaker and mic etc and price it $30 under the tomtom then they will clean up. I sue a 730 and i like it. but the navigon i also have use of is excellent

 

[surferfromuk]

While agree that TomTom needs to come out sooner vs. later, I still believe that their launch -- at least here in the US -- will be a successful one, since their competition as a whole, really isn't that great. Navigon is also taking a long time to get here. G-Map (no strangers themselves, to bad marketing mishaps) is a decent GPS app but a far cry from any fully-featured nav app; it's gotten better but still has a ways to go. Had the version seen in the Tap Critic video been released by now, then TomTom might have a problem but that's not the case. And Sygic was a disappointment, given the expectations. Gokivo, while boasting some great features in the first roll-out, still has some bugs/instability issues to work out. IMHO, the only GPS app in America that is of any true quality right now -- and thus, any threat at all to TomTom -- is AT&T Navigator/Telenav - and as pointed out earlier, they're kind of aimed at a different audience than TomTom anyway, due to the different pricing model/philosophy. So I think TomTom should do well. They've been extremely
fortunate that Navigon has been equally as slow. I just hope TomTom keeps their promise of "later this summer"...

I wasn't aware Navigon wasn't stateside yet - that's going to give TomTom some room.

 

[Krevnik]

I wasn't aware Navigon wasn't stateside yet - that's going to give TomTom some room.

The free demo just came out... I'd expect the full version to not be too far behind.

 

[JonB3Z]

I tend to agree. They are trying really hard to build suspense for the product, which usually means they are a little worried about how it will perform once released.

I don't think that's what's happening. I think they simply aren't ready. Don't forget, unlike the other apps, there is a hardware component to this product, and production lead times are longer on such products. My guess is that TomTom would have preferred not to announce at WWDC but felt their hand was being forced by the fact that Apple was planning to announce that TBT would be possible with 3.0. So TomTom announced and are frantically trying to get their hardware to market. (Yeah, I'm guessing. Sue me!)

Of course, they could release the S/W without the H/W, but I'm sure they want to try to bundle them if at all possible.

One other note about pricing: There is no reason they couldn't produce a range of apps with different capabilities and different price points, just as they do with stand-alone units. Want a static map set? $79.99. Want voice address input? $89.99. Want real-time map updates and traffic? $99.99 plus a $4.99/month subscription. And so on. Obviously, I'm totally making up the numbers. My point is that there are lots of creative pricing models they could explore.

 

[applehappy]

I don't think that's what's happening. I think they simply aren't ready. Don't forget, unlike the other apps, there is a hardware component to this product, and production lead times are longer on such products. My guess is that TomTom would have preferred not to announce at WWDC but felt their hand was being forced by the fact that Apple was planning to announce that TBT would be possible with 3.0. So TomTom announced and are frantically trying to get their hardware to market. (Yeah, I'm guessing. Sue me!)

Of course, they could release the S/W without the H/W, but I'm sure they want to try to bundle them if at all possible.

One other note about pricing: There is no reason they couldn't produce a range of apps with different capabilities and different price points, just as they do with stand-alone units. Want a static map set? $79.99. Want voice address input? $89.99. Want real-time map updates and traffic? $99.99 plus a $4.99/month subscription. And so on. Obviously, I'm totally making up the numbers. My point is that there are lots of creative pricing models they could explore.

Great post! Totally agree.

 

[Londonluke]

Great post! Totally agree.

Just wonder how many people will be selling these maps cheaper...? Ie hacked. My local computer fair has guys selling all uk, europe and full usa on a card for £30.00 (fully working and latest maps.. Its a human thing, people get sick to death of having to keep paying. Hard luck for Tomtom i know , but then again they do not seem to worry about their customers. This would then mean buying the cradle.