More Rumblings of a Microsoft Music Store

[DGFan]

Re: Re: DOH!

Originally posted by KLFloyd

Second, while I can understand why Apple would want to test such a new concept on a small basis at first (Mac's in the US only) this is a VERY small percentage of the population. Why did they not at the very least at have all the agreements signed for iTunes for Windows before they launched the Mac version. Not only are they working on the software, but they're also having to re-negotiate contracts with the record companies as well. Just seems like they were in such a hurry to rush the product out the door.

You're assuming that Apple had any say in the matter. If you've been around this site long you would know that it's probable that some record companies saw ITMS as a test and were waiting to see what impact it had before signing any other agreements for ITMS windows.

 

[Capt Underpants]

Originally posted by jbomber
yeah, i think that kinda sums up my feelings right now. Apple seems to be dragging their feet or something. There're a lot of people waiting anxiously for one thing or another. I hope they're not resting on their laurels after successfully introducing the g5.

Well Apple doesn't want to rush and end up with a buggy product. Has Apple ever made anything for windows? If they haven't, I think they will be in for a surprise when windows junkies stark hacking iTMS for Windows. I just hope they take theie time, make a good product, and have the same DRM. I don't know if all of what I'm wishing for will be true, but one can always hope.

 

[DGFan]

Originally posted by Capt Underpants
Has Apple ever made anything for windows?

Quicktime is available for windows

 

[MasterMac]

Appleworks is also available for Windows

 

[electric]

Well Apple doesn't want to rush and end up with a buggy product. Has Apple ever made anything for windows? If they haven't, I think they will be in for a surprise when windows junkies stark hacking iTMS for Windows. I just hope they take theie time, make a good product, and have the same DRM. I don't know if all of what I'm wishing for will be true, but one can always hope.

QuickTime is more of a plug-in for Windows isn’t it? I think it would be really difficult to build any windows application that works consistently well on all wintel machines and Operating Systems. If ITMS crashes peoples wintels, I think those people would look at Apple with more distain, on the other hand if Apple can duplicate the ITMS functionality and ease of use currently available, it would help people understand what ease of use computing can really be like and perhaps they would buy a Mac to extend their experience.

P.S. How about the buy.com ads? Even Apples less than brilliant ideas get copied.

 

[mjtomlin]

Fair Play...

Apple was able to obtain the licensing rights they did, because the iTMS is relegated to a relatively small user base...

Apple Mac users...
Running Mac OS X...
Using iTunes 4...
AAC file format (ie. not MP3, remember people swap MP3's not AAC files. lol Also, Does anyone even know if this format is even supported on Windows yet?)

The so-called "delay" in releasing a Windows version, I'm sure is in no part due to Apple - the time is probably whittling away trying to convince the record companies to go along with it. I think they just need to convince them that it won't be available to all Windows users, just those running XP, with Quicktime installed and whatever iTMS client Apple comes up with (iTunes for Windows or maybe they just add it to the MusicMatch software). Again, a fairly limited user base.

 

[kansast]

Any future for Apple's Music store

Please don't take this the wrong way.. i throughly enjoy the Apple Music Store. However, I get this feeling that in a year or two.. that the Apple Music Store could end up just some foot note in this whole thing.. Just maybe if they had come out with a Windows versions in the beginning. But I can just see someone comming out with a lesser version of Apple's implementation on the Windows size.. but by shear Volume, and market size, be more successful than Apple.

I certainly hope this isn't true.. and wish Apple all the success with their Music Store.

 

[MrMacMan]

NOOOO!!!

Microsoft stop STEALING ideads!!


AHHH!!!

Stop it!!!

 

[Docrjm]

Originally posted by electric
QuickTime is more of a plug-in for Windows isn’t it? I think it would be really difficult to build any windows application that works consistently well on all wintel machines and Operating Systems. If ITMS crashes peoples wintels, I think those people would look at Apple with more distain, on the other hand if Apple can duplicate the ITMS functionality and ease of use currently available, it would help people understand what ease of use computing can really be like and perhaps they would buy a Mac to extend their experience.

P.S. How about the buy.com ads? Even Apples less than brilliant ideas get copied.

Qtime is not a windows plug in, it is a full program and can be upgraded to QT pro ala Mac version.
As to M$ with whatever DRMand prprietary codec they use their offering will only work if you have win3000 a pentium toast and blah blah blah

 

[IJ Reilly]

Re: it's the licensing guys!

Originally posted by copperpipe
My money is on the fact that Apple has iTMS ready to rock for the windows platform, BUT, and this is a big ol' butt, the Music industry will not let them get the same licensing!!! The only reason we got the licensing the way we did is because of our small marketshare - it was a good way to test w/out losing too much money. Now the Industry is trying to retain their paranoia with the windows crowd - buymusic.com. They are using Buy.com as guinea pigs to see what the public will consume. feeding them sh*t biscuits. Now if it is the horrible fiasco it *should* be, then Apple will be in business, and it will be a HUGE windfall for our favorite company. But if all those morons out there support Buy.com, then the Music Industry will hold on tight as ever to their product. We shall see, but none of this has much to do with Apple getting on the ball, it has everything to do with the Music Industry...in my humble opinion...

Yup, I think you have it exactly right. Apple is holding out for the same licensing terms for Windows that they got for Mac owners, and the music industry is hoping against hope that they won't have to go there. If Steve wills out, then we might get to see if Apple's more consumer-friendly approach is the one the people want to buy. Right now, the competition between these approaches is really just theoretical, and if Apple doesn't get what it wants, and Microsoft steamrollers into the market like we know they can, ITMS might end up as that "footnote" that somebody else suggested.

It's all up to Steve and the music industry people. We're going to find out just how persuasive Steve can be.

 

[j33pd0g]

Maybe Microsoft will have their music store available via the xBox? All your music is stored online... and you can instantly hear them. But would not be able to download them or burn them, or store them offline. Maybe they will call it the xBox music store... and rip off the apple commercials with people behind white backdrops singing song with their xBox's in their hands...

 

[spice weasel]

Re: DOH!

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an awful feeling that this might have been yet another lame attempt to drive people into buying a Mac in order to use the site. If so - "DOH!" When are Apple going to realise that the best way to 'switch' people is not to try and twist their arms into spending huge amounts of money on new hardware (and attendant software), but rather to introduce them to little (and relatively cheap) snippets of Apple design (such as the iPod), let them get comfortable with the ease of use etc., and then encourage them to draw the obvious conclusions regarding the larger picture of PC hardware.

Brother Mugga

When has Apple ever twisted people's arms to get them to switch? Apple's marketshare simply does not allow them to use the strong-arm tactics of say, Microsoft, for example.

As for not having released a Windows version of iTunes yet, I too think that Apple would be much better served by getting it out sooner rather than later. But not at the risk of having buggy software. That would have the effect of turning potential switchers off, and at the very least give those already slightly hostile to Macs more ammunition.

As usual, though, this rumor shows Microsoft's modus operandi -- let other, more creative companies come up with a new idea, jump in the game with tons of money, and "force" the Windoze community (most of whom are unwitting dupes who simply don't know that their computer doesn't need to crash several times daily) to accept the crap that they give them. The only good thing is that it will likely force the even crappier Buymusic.com out of business before it even gets off the ground.

Back to the Windows version of iTunes. Let's hope that they are taking their time to get it right. Look at how many versions of WMP have come out for the Mac, all pieces of junk.

 

[slightly]

We may never know if the iTMS DRM was one orignally proposed by Apple and accepted by the labels, or if it was something they thrashed out between them in long negotiations. Either way, it's a deal which respects the basic tenet that, when you buy a song, it's yours to keep. If you accidentally delete it, you can get it back from the iTunes Store.

We don't know what kind of rights deal MS may set up, but if it's anything like Buymusic.com's, you'll have a limited number of downloads, a limited number of (legal) burns. Of course, it will almost certainly be another WMF+IE/Win-only system.

Here's another thing. I think much of the reason for iTMS's popularity is that Mac users actually have a loyalty for Apple which just isn't there on the PC side (most PC users loathe MS, unless I'm very much mistaken). I'm not saying that PC users are more likely to use P2P rather than pay for legal downloads, but I can't see them getting excited about a legal offering in the way that Mac users were.

PC users would also have to be convinced that switching from Winamp (or whatever) to iTunes offers them something extra. Can they skin it? Add plug-ins?

All I'm saying is, if iTunes for Windows doesn't immediately take the PC world by storm and get people throwing their Kazaa clients out of the window, I don't think we have too much to blame Apple for. There's an inherited philosophy in the PC world that you get whatever you can, as cheaply as possible. Low price over high quality. It's that that we need to challenge.

Matt

 

[Frozone]

I don't think that Microsoft will enter the market except, like someone above suggested, with the xBox. Too many companies are running to them about using Windows Media Player and they can make a bunch of money that way without actually doing much. So to keep making money off of Windows Media Player they just simply open up there music store to xBox users. Let's all just hope that Apple can make some sweet deals with companies to get iTunes spread onto Wintel machines.

 

[Doctor Q]

What's to stop M$ from making the same music licensing deals for an MS-Windows-Music-Store that Apple makes? If and when the labels are ready to license music for the masses (maybe now, maybe after they are sure that Apple's "experiment" has been a success), why wouldn't they offer the deal to all music stores? I doubt Apple can muscle them into exclusive deals.

If the Windows O.S. starts shipping with a builtin client for the MSWMS, it'll be like Java, Netscape, and QuickTime - an uphill battle all the way to get users to download something and switch from the most convenient tool. A lot of music consumers will tune out the technical details and simply never do the comparison. Inertia is a powerful force.

 

[Brother Mugga]

Twister

Originally posted by spice weasel
When has Apple ever twisted people's arms to get them to switch?

Sorry, this wasn't intended to sound inflammatory. I just meant that Apple have often (and sometimes foolishly in my book) attempted to drive hardware sales through other aspects of their portfolio [e.g. when the original iPods came out, they took an age to produce a Windows compatible version].

Notwithstanding all the arguments about instability (etc.), I just think that Apple would also benefit from allowing certain pieces of their software to run on Windows (as they do with quicktime), because it would at least introduce people to the Apple 'world.' Posters on this (and other) sites tend to forget that we're computing 'enthusiasts' (not geeks at all, clearly...), and therefore far more clued up than the average punter...who, sadly, pretty much doesn't even realise Apple exist (especially over in Europe, believe me).

Cheers

Mugga

 

[fJones]

two things i think alot of people are missing:

1. apple is probably waiting for buymusic et al to tank. then they can go to the RIAA with a bit more leverage & get what they want DRM wise. i agree there is a window of opportunity here, but they will have MONTHS not days or weeks to decide the best course of action (especially with the current competition, please... even the average PC sheeple buymusic seems pegged for will realize pretty quick that this 'service' is junk).

if it is in fact a programming thing that is holding them up, well than i'd rather see them take a little more time & get it right. first impressions mean alot with this sort of thing.

2. i've heard somewhere that apple also makes computers from time to time. they've got panther testing right now, both it & the G5 due in late aug/early sept., new powerbooks overdue, new G5-esque display & peripheral designs (i hope anyway) & i'm sure many other projects on the roster that we don't even know about yet.

apple does not have unlimited resourses. yes, itunes is making money & has the opportunity to become 'the standard', but like any company, bottom line they need to make $$$ THIS QUARTER. they do that by selling hardware.

btw - first post here, nice site

 

[Jerry Spoon]

Originally posted by dermeister
Good, now Apple can HURRY THE HELL UP.

Apple needed a good kick in the ass.

Well said!

 

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Pancake
I don't think Microsoft will enter the field. It's getting crowded quickly. They definately have the money to throw at it to succeed to a point. But I don't think there is a huge payoff for them, they can make as much money licensing their WMP junk to a bunch of people and never have to pay for infastructure.

That being said I hope they do launch one the same exact dat as iTMS for windows and they get their asses whooped. It would also be good if a little old lady because of their online music store.

Wrong. MS has been making more and more grumblings about services. Windows has hit a steel ceiling for all intents and purposes. They OWN the damn market for god sake. When your cash cow can no longer make you money you need to turn to other ventures. Hence the reason MS has been going into other markets. Witness: more hardware being put out by MS (Mice, keyboards, joysticks, NICS, wireless, etc) Gaming platforms (Come on! Does anyone truly think MS wanted to get into the video game business? Its because they saw a new revenue stream that Sony could potentially eat and they jumped at it.) Pocket PC’s. Another platform to spread (Infect?) windows too.
Then you have services. They holy grail of revenue to MS. They are desperately searching for a service that the average consumer would be willing to shell out cash on a weekly, monthly, quarterly, or yearly basis. This guarantees them a constant incoming flow of cash. (You think windows users like upgrading to MS’s latest and greatest OS? They don’t. And this hits them in the bottom line when people say screw that. Services nearly guarantee a pipeline of cash.)
I think it’s a forgone conclusion that MS WILL enter the music arena. And its why Apple needs a swift hard kick in the gluteus assimum to get them rolling. Otherwise I fear MS could pull a Netscape on them. It doesn’t matter if Apple has better software. Heck its NEVER mattered really. If MS can bundle their bloated crapp ridden software into Windows so every PC sold comes with iScrewthecomsumer, or whatever MS decides to call their app, itunes won’t have a chance in heck of competing. This is where its nice to have a market share of something above 2.5%. If Apple was at a 10% market share they would have a tad bit of breathing room. As it stands MS has plenty of room and plenty of options to screw Apple.

 

[hillbilly]

don't panic...

as the Hitchhiker's Guide says, "Don't panic"

I'm sure everyone knew this was coming. There was no way M$ was going to let Apple have this cash cow all to itself - they're already playing catch-up on OS's, and if they get much further behind, the lemmings may actually start leaving the cliff edge and stepping into the light that we so thoroughly enjoy.

As for the wait on a windows version, I can't believe it's due to the record companies, or even Steve-O wouldn't have had the nerve to put their decision on a "year's-end" timetable.

My guess is that they're putting the finishing touches on a windows jukebox that will become standard fare for the less fortunate wintel folks who now have to cope with the bloated likes of MMJB & WMP.

 

[vrapan]

Apple needs kicking?

I would like to post a few thoughts about several comments I saw.

I believe there are several reasons why Apple is taking so long to release the iTMS for windows.

1. Windows is a much more volatile platform for Apple than Mac OS is. They know it and control it(Mac OS). They do not own or control in anyway Wintel machines. So offering the same iTMS experience on Windows as they do with Mac takes a lot of effort.

2. MS has no reason not to offer music on their platform. It gives them another tie to the consumer. They have done fairly well with the PC games they offer and XBOX is doing pretty well too. So you can expect a decent offering from them.

3. To me it seems like Record Companies have the upper hand in these business. They forced DRM, they created music services that rented music, that did not allow CD burning and so on and so on. I believe that they show USA Mac base as a test platform, relatively safe enough. If I am right the AAC tracks do not play on anything else than iTunes and iPods right? So a Windows release of iTMS with the same restrictions will take a LOT of persuasion or.....

Apple's control over the experience. If and this is a big if Apple can keep the tracks in the circle of iPod-iTunes the Recording industry might feel comfortable enough to offer the same "loose" restrictions.

The probles is the following. With the current restrictions there is a work around - not elegant but still a work around. Burn your tracks on a CD and rip them as DRMless MP3s. While this is not a big problem on a limited scale imagine the hundrends of thousands of consumers being able to get their hands on 1$ releases and then release them for free. On top of that many Windows consumers will not want to use the 300$ iPod - too expensive in the Windows world and.

So I believe Apple has stuck on this circle: They cannot get the same deal they did for the Mac iTMS unless they offer a way to control such techniques of "copyright violations". And they do not want to release a Windows version that is much more strict than the Mac version because all the hype about the superiority of their service would mean nothing.


Thinking about it twice, getting a stricter deal and posting a banner on iTunes saying "If you had a Mac you could burn your song on a CD as many times as you liked" might be the best advertising for Macs lol......

 

[Omek]

And how about BuyMusic.com? That was one of the lamest things I've ever seen. How low can you get? They copied Apple's commercials exactly, except using a different MP3 player.... Why can't businesses come up with their own dang original ideas....

Anyway, if Microsoft comes out with its own music store, it will probably have several limitations. I just wish Apple would have ditched the 3 operating system idea. That's the only thing I really don't like about those AAC files. I mean come on.... only 3 computers?? That's just ludacris!

 

[tazo]

Does this finally raise the question, how bad can Microsoft sink? Well maybe, but I'll be anxious to see if your ability to use the songs is even at 'play once'.

 

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by Omek
I just wish Apple would have ditched the 3 operating system idea. That's the only thing I really don't like about those AAC files. I mean come on.... only 3 computers?? That's just ludacris!

As opposed to what? That's just how many systems you can have licensed to use the original files at a time, you can still use CDs and iPods. Apple had to find some DRM middle ground, and I would say that three systems is just fine, if you've got more than that then I guess you may have to use CDs, what can I say...

Let's only hope that they can be as free and easy with DRM as they were with our version for the Windows side. Last time we heard they already had two majors signed up I think. I believe most of us were pleasantly surprised by how loose "Fair Play" was. I aint complaining.

BuyMusic.com is an example of what the record companies will agree to if you don't twist their arms or distort their reality. In contrast you can see how great the deal Apple worked out was.

 

[j33pd0g]

At least Apple has the smarts to at least announce support for Windows users. IMO, it is good business to not narrow your market. *Unlike http://www.BuyMusic.com/ where if you are on a mac you can't even go to the site anymore. That's a stupid plan of attack. Yeah, I know you need the new WMP, but did M$ officially say that they are not releasing that for mac OS X?





*I wanted to go there for additional chuckle.