I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, new users need to be restricted from being able to post straight away upon account completion. This forum is full of spam…again!
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More Spam Attacks
- Thread starter StumpyBloke
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And not a mod in sight to deal with it either.
oh and i agree with you. Nearly every section should have a limit set on it (5 posts in my opinion) but leave one or two sections open where new members can post to get their post count up so they can post in other sections. This will stop the spammers from being able to spam post in every section.
We are on it, and I was "in sight" and banning over 50 spammers when you posted that. But they were registering as fast as I could ban them. Another moderator started banning them last night and continued earlier this morning. An admin is also on the case now and making some changes to the filters that will hopefully help.
The filters really are quite good here, there's a ton of spam that you never see because it gets caught. But this latest batch is pretty sneaky!
The filters really are quite good here, there's a ton of spam that you never see because it gets caught. But this latest batch is pretty sneaky!
The spammers use predictable themes, i.e., similar titles. I think you need to update those filters sooner then later.
They seem to coincide their spamming at a time frame when the board shows no staff on online. So its not terribly surprising to see them easily register a lot of new accounts and then just keep spamming the board, since there's no staff online.
I've said this before, you need to increase the staffing, MR has grown, and yet staffing levels have shrunk.
I was very conscious in wording the post the way I did because because at the time of making my post, I clicked on 'New posts' and saw in the list spam posts I had reported and observing the time they was posted, many said '25 mins ago' or '30 mins ago' which gave the impression that no mod was dealing with the spam. If you was here at the time and dealing with them but it was taking you a long time then I apologize for the wording I used.
Something needs to change. Clearly the filters in place aren’t working well enough. I can’t fathom why new users can flood any forum with any old crap after the innumerable spam attacks over the last few years!
I think there's an ebb and flow to the spam, i.e,., periods of spam flooding and then times that are relatively quiet, but I woulda agree with your opinion, that the status quo is insufficient.
The solution does seem simple. I do not understand why the owner of the site will not allow it.
Conspiracy theory here. Every spam account is a new user account which increases the sites user numbers with which sponsors and advertisers would use to determine if it is worth their while to become a sponsor/advertiser on the site. The bigger the user base the bigger the number of eyes see adverts and sponsors banners. The conspiracy theory falls down if the admins delete the spam user accounts from the user database.
Because if the site was to use post limits it means it would prevent spammers from being able to post all over the forum thus making their spam attacks ineffective meaning they would get fed up of it not working thus not bother spamming the site anymore which would mean no new user accounts being made.
Because if the site was to use post limits it means it would prevent spammers from being able to post all over the forum thus making their spam attacks ineffective meaning they would get fed up of it not working thus not bother spamming the site anymore which would mean no new user accounts being made.
I was told awhile ago that new users are instantly allowed to post because it saves them waiting to get an answer to their question.
However, in my opinion, they could quite easily search the forum or wait the prerequisite amount of time before being allowed.
Well if that is the site owners stance on the issue then the owner is at fault for the forum getting spammed. Everyone else has to suffer for the sake of new users, nice going site owner.
And yes existing users suffer because they have to navigate the minefield of spam to see the threads the want to see.
plenty of users on every site ever make an account specifically to post or respond to a post.
restricting them from posting after account creation means they will forget to post, they will never return, and the site will dwindle.
I don't know if this is the same on iOS, but on a desktop, on the main forum page, make sure the sidebar is on, this will add another column to the forum view.
Scroll down and if you see a section called Staff Online above the members online widget, then you have your answer. If there is no Staff Online section showing, then there is no staff members online.
I've also been told that some moderators like to turn off their online status and go stealth mode, this will reportedly cause the staff online widget not to show them. So that being said, the widget is not perfect but I think it does a decent enough job to communicate general staff availability. I 'm saying this to communicate that the widget isn't fool proof and I don't want to confuse anyone into thinking about the effectiveness of that widget.
I'm an early morning person and based on what I see with that widget, and the time it takes for spam reports to be handled, i.e., I report them, and an hour or to later they're handled - its quite evident that there are lapses in coverage.
What I communicated above is clear and provides a general sense of coverage. I don't want to confuse anyone, so I will say that it only provides a general sense but its reasonable to assume that if the staff widget is not showing then its likely no staff members are online.
For a forum that is worldwide coverage, that clocks in over a million members, the staff to coverage is inadequate imo. The number of moderators has shrunk whilst the membership has grown, along with an increase in complexity of the rules and site.
I used to be a moderator, sadly, I cannot speak of my experiences or provide any more insight, as I am forbidden to openly talk about it.
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Most people join the forum to ask a question about an Apple product that they have bought, as this is the link (or, one of the links) that crop up when you type in your question online.
I certainly did.
And, if that question is answered some may choose not to participate further (as is their right), but may leave their membership open.
Others may choose to remain, because they liked what they saw, or thought the community of interest.
Some years ago, I saw a pie chart that had been posted here, which measured percentages of posts made by members; an astonishing number of all accounts had no posts whatsoever; a further astonishing number had only one (often a question), and a further very large number had made between two and five posts.
Between them, they comprised the vast majority of MR's members.
Personally, I would not wish to do anything which would deter individuals from being able to post a question on the forum as a first (and sometimes, sole), post, given that this may have been the only reason why they opened their account in the first place.
And no, asking newbies to "search the forum" for answers - in that case, I'd have simply kept on phoning the Apple guy I had bought my first computer (I was a "switcher", hence, there was much to learn) from - sends a message that only those who are already members are welcome here, and that membership is a privilege, which would be a most unfortunate message to wish to send.
If you see spam, report it: that is what I do (and I have probably reported hundreds of what I considered were spam messages in all of the time I have been a member here).
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Anyway, for the reasons I mentioned immediately above, I beg to differ.
What you mentioned with regards to the pie chart ties in neatly with my post on why MR will not restrict new members because even though the pie chart shows the huge number of dormant members there are, they are still on the site database and the more users means the site becomes more attractive to potential sponsors and advertisers. Remember, Elon Musk caught onto the exact same thing when he requested specific data on the user database but the top brass at Twitter kept on refusing to give him that data because he claimed Twitter's figures were flawed and thus the company was not worth what Twitter was saying it was.
MR is no different. When the site owner is pushing for more/better sponsors/advertisers, those companies will want to know the size of the user database. The pie chart is clear evidence that the site owner will not change things because it would drastically alter the number of users that sign up monthly/yearly. That is why Google and Meta push so hard to get new users because sponsors/advertisers want their products to be seen by new faces, not existing ones. MR is no different.
Fair enough.
That tells us why the site (any online platform) will be of interest to advertisers.
However, initially, it is of interest to many users (when they choose to open an account) is because it is home to many Apple enthusiasts, many of them people with a lot of knowledge, some of whom are more than happy to be of assistance by answering questions posed by newbies (and others).
Telling people - newcomers - to "search the forum" is ill-mannered, as is a reply - to a post in a thread asking a question - to "Google it".
Why even bother writing such a thing? It is discourteous, dismissive, and unwelcoming.
Most people who have asked a question, have asked it because they don't know the answer, and the online ether has suggested this forum as a place where they might find answers to questions they have about Apple products.
If you know the answer, and want to be of assistance, post it; otherwise, simply say (or write) nothing.
An important thing to keep in mind is that advertisers, in this age of surveillance capitalism, rely much more on behavioral metrics, demographic attributes, purchase histories, and cost-per-thousand impressions (CPM) than on raw user numbers when designing campaigns and buying ad space. So there really isn't that much upside, if any, for MR to inflate its registered user numbers. Ads can't be served to people who aren't using the site. Or if MR is willing to accept low CPMs for low quality ad impressions, there again isn't much benefit to exaggerating the number of users.
Allowing new users to post is 100% about providing a good user experience to new members who have something to say, hoping they find the forums useful and that they end up staying and contributing for many years to come.
Our advertising is largely programmatic. If there's a page view, ads are loaded and we're paid a tiny amount. The total number of registered users is largely irrelevant; all that matters is views.
The idea that we'd want to allow or even encourage spam accounts is absurd. It takes away from the user experience for our existing users and means more work for our moderators.
We have various tools in place to help block spam posts before they even appear in the forums, but it's an endless cat-and-mouse game where we're always having to come up with new tactics to combat the spammers getting around our existing blocks.
Our advertising is largely programmatic. If there's a page view, ads are loaded and we're paid a tiny amount. The total number of registered users is largely irrelevant; all that matters is views.
The idea that we'd want to allow or even encourage spam accounts is absurd. It takes away from the user experience for our existing users and means more work for our moderators.
We have various tools in place to help block spam posts before they even appear in the forums, but it's an endless cat-and-mouse game where we're always having to come up with new tactics to combat the spammers getting around our existing blocks.
The section in bold I disagree with. Far too many people are lazy but try to use that in forums like this as a way of getting others to do things for them and use the forum rule 'Section: Things Not to Do - rule No. 7' to get their way.
All through childhood, school, college, university and employment we are taught how to look for things, search for things, investigate for things, basically how to use our brain power to find the things we want but yet we are supposed to pander to those who ask for help on subject matters where the answers are bountiful in the internet. No, no and no. If newbies want help then they should show that they have tried to find the answers themselves but the majority don't. They just explain the problem and say 'Please help me' with the answers in plain site if only they googled it themselves.
I remember when at college, when I had problems with stuff that was in the course material the lecturers would tell me that such and such can be found in such and such book that can be found in the library. The lecturers were not trying to be standoffish or simply dismissing me, they were teaching me to learn how to search for things and not to always rely on the help of others for things that I am more than capable of doing myself. It is a very good life lesson which sadly many do not have or they do, they are just lazy.
You've basically proved my point, views matters. As I also pointed out, advertisers are not interested in existing registered users seeing their ad's they want new registered users because a new registered user means a new view and every new view on an ad means more money to MR and this is why MR will not change it's policy on how it handles newly registered users because the site owners knows it could affect them financially.
What is wrong with asking for help?
That is not "lazy", and, in a world with which they are not familiar - for example, while I would know where to find information in areas of professional (and personal) interest to me - such as history and politics, - I am not a tech expert, any more than I am a car expert.
I see no shame in asking questions of people who know about these things - and this forum, born out of an interest in matters relating to Apple - comes up in online searches for Apple - when I do not.
I will reiterate:
The vast majority of members of this site have opened an account, and, either made no posts, or made one, and that one sole, single, solitary post was very often a question because they had an Apple product.
This does not make such posts spam, and neither does it mean that they merit being treated with anything other than courtesy and respect.
Telling people to "Google" it, or use the search function in the forum is basically telling them to stop wasting your time, and that they are not welcome.
Moreover, anyone who received such an abrupt and dismissive answer could not be expected to want to stay around and actually become an active participant of the site.
Moreover, if I was an Apple employee (which I am not) and read that a forum dedicated to discussion (often arcane) of Apple products was telling newcomers to use the search function, instead of answering them, and encouraging their interest by engaging with them, and hoping that they would stay around, I must admit that I would be exceedingly underwhelmed by the site.
Asking for help can be generalized into two categories, Category 1: Those in genuine need who have no clue how to search for info and Category 2: Lazy. Those who know how to search for the info they need but are too lazy to do so.
Based on my experience of being here, the huge majority of help falls into category 2.
Anyway, the pie chart you based one of yours post on disproves many of your points because you pointed out the pie chart shows that the biggest number of newbies asking for help are those who ask a question and then disappear. This disproves the argument that newbies want to engage further into the forum.
Who are you to say someone is lazy? One of the great advantages that MacRumors has, the membership who is willing to help anyone even with the most rudimentary questions. There may be snarky people here, but unlike reddit, people will go above and beyond to help
Doesn't matter if they have no clue or choose to post a thread instead of other means to get the answer