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Motorola and Apple
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For all those expecting a 1.5 GHz G4 in the next iBook... Dont. Remember that this is already pushing the limits of the Motorola G4. The iBook will one day get this but Apple needs a series of upgrades for the iBook over the next year or so as the PowerBook transitions over to the G5. We will probably see approximate speed upgrades of 1.25 GHz in the iBook first, then 1.33 GHz, maybe 1.42 GHz and finally 1.5 GHz. If Apple gave the next iBook the 1.5 GHz first they would have no upgrade path left after that other than to move the iBook over to the G5 as well. By starting the next iBook at 1.25 GHz it leaves them breathing room.
gekko513 said:
I'm sure its a huge task but they have had prototypes of the G5's for quite a while now. Couldn't Apple just take the basic design of the G5 DT including controllers, etc. and scale it to fit a Powerbook format ? Personally, I don't care if they bring out a 1ghz version with a IBM G5 proc. as long as they update the architecture to the latest standard instead of updating an outdated design that seemingly hasn't evolved much since the good old Pismo with a G4
This is exactly the attitude that keeps many of us away from Apple hardware. It is also the attitude that allows Apple to market 3 year old technologoy to the consumer market without any embarassment at all.
If motorola has a processor that runs at 1.5GHz then it needs to be introduced in a product, such a processor does no good sitting on a shelf. Besides who in theri right mind would go out an buy a iBook knowing that a processor sits on the shelf that would allow their machine to run 25% faster, but isn't in their machine due to some half baked marketing scheme.
It might not be a problem if the G4 @ 1.2 GHZ could offer world class performance or even match the bottom of the line of Pentium M processors but it can't even do that. apple really needs to commit to offering at least comperable performance to the i86 world. Offering compromises has not gotten them anywhere recently. Apple is to deeply into catch up mode to be delivering anything less than a fully competitive machine.
Thanks
Dave
If motorola has a processor that runs at 1.5GHz then it needs to be introduced in a product, such a processor does no good sitting on a shelf. Besides who in theri right mind would go out an buy a iBook knowing that a processor sits on the shelf that would allow their machine to run 25% faster, but isn't in their machine due to some half baked marketing scheme.
It might not be a problem if the G4 @ 1.2 GHZ could offer world class performance or even match the bottom of the line of Pentium M processors but it can't even do that. apple really needs to commit to offering at least comperable performance to the i86 world. Offering compromises has not gotten them anywhere recently. Apple is to deeply into catch up mode to be delivering anything less than a fully competitive machine.
Thanks
Dave
TWinbrook46636 said:
If apple wants to strongly differentiate between consumer and pro models, use Moto G4s in the emac/imac/ibook lines and G5s in the powerbook/powermac - with only dual processors in the powermacs. That sends a strong message.
The short answer is no.
The long answer could become very involved but mostly revolves around power usage. The current Northbridge uses alot of power.
So power reduction would most likely be high on the list of corrective actions. Along with that would be the elimination of all multiprocessing features. Even after that you would still have a processor / northbridge combo that is rather power hungery. Wether this would be a saleable machine is entirely up to the customer base, I would suspect that most of Apples customer base is expecting to be able to run their machines on batteries.
To be perfectly honest at this point I would thik that Apple would be better off paying Motorola to produce a G4 with a built in memory interface. Or to use one of Motorolas integrated chips, especially for the iBook line.
I just don't see the G5 cutting the mustard so to speak with the 90nm chip. It is not clear at this point just how efficient the 970FX is when running the loads that Mac users run. Apple might have a chance if they can move the entire chip set to 90nm and add a great deal of power savings features. The problem is that you are likely to end up with a much slower 970 implementation at whcih point a G4 would be faster.
Dave
The long answer could become very involved but mostly revolves around power usage. The current Northbridge uses alot of power.
So power reduction would most likely be high on the list of corrective actions. Along with that would be the elimination of all multiprocessing features. Even after that you would still have a processor / northbridge combo that is rather power hungery. Wether this would be a saleable machine is entirely up to the customer base, I would suspect that most of Apples customer base is expecting to be able to run their machines on batteries.
To be perfectly honest at this point I would thik that Apple would be better off paying Motorola to produce a G4 with a built in memory interface. Or to use one of Motorolas integrated chips, especially for the iBook line.
I just don't see the G5 cutting the mustard so to speak with the 90nm chip. It is not clear at this point just how efficient the 970FX is when running the loads that Mac users run. Apple might have a chance if they can move the entire chip set to 90nm and add a great deal of power savings features. The problem is that you are likely to end up with a much slower 970 implementation at whcih point a G4 would be faster.
Dave
spinko said:
gekko513 said:
Do you honestly think that Apple hasn't been working on G5 PB designs since BEFORE the G5 tower came out? Well they have. And that means that there will be no delay. If the next iteration of pb's has a g4, it will be a bomb for apple. Everyone knows about the 970FX chip, and even more know about the impending g5 books in the NEAR future. Therefore, if moto's g4's are in the next rev of pb's, people aren't gonna buy it, they are gonna wait for the g5, as they know its coming.
But more to the point: It has been longer than the average period of time since they updated (163 days), and usually, that number is the average because of the fact that they update every 8 months, then 4 or 5 months later. The last TWO updates have come well beyond the 163 day marker, and since both updates "boasted" mediocre bumps, and since the 1.5 G4 is only a 13 % increase, don't expect them to be in the next pb's.
And if they are, Apple, don't expect any sales, cause I'm not buyin' it, and I am SERIOUSLY in the market for a new powerbook.
wizard said:
You act as if you knwo what you are talking about, yet you also act as if Apple was surprised by teh unveiling of the 970FX?
So which is it? do you know what your talking about, or do you think they were surprised by its unveiling? Cause it certainly isn't both.
And p.s., no one here knows if it will cut the mustard, so way to be on the ball on that one.
However, I am sure it does, or there wouldn't be any big deal being made about. Sorry, but I feel that thats a dumb comment. Of course it will cut the mustard, thus why ibm has already been quoted ( during its "unveiling") as saying it will be in Apple's comps.
spinko said:
Funny, I bought the same one and it feels faster than my QuickSilver 733 - perhaps something was wrong with your Albook? (or you were doing something requiring huge amounts of RAM).
Anyway, I've read all the rumors and decided to buy one (just this weekend) because I want one to use now. A new one may be announced tomorrow but it will still take time to get in stock. Working on one now will pay for any price/spec difference. There's always something better coming out, there's no point in playing the waiting game if you need to use one now. If you truly need the maximum speed, you can sell your existing Mac and buy a new one when it is available.
Hopefully just the iBook and eMac. It would be sad to see a revised iMac with a G4. Actually it would be great to see the iBook get a new proc too.aswitcher said:
ITR 81 said:
the voice of reason.
If there's another generation of G4 powerbooks, it's not to make us angry; it's because they haven't been able to put the G5 in a powerbook yet. You think apple doesn't know that people want a G5 powerbook?
If we see new G4 powerbooks, what you need to realize is that the choice wasn't G4 vs. G5, it was the current line of G4s vs. updated G4s. If the G5 were ready for a PB, it would be in a PB, new G4 or no new G4.
virividox said:bring back the cube
i can dream cant i
The cube is history. Get over it already.
QCassidy352 said:the voice of reason.
If there's another generation of G4 powerbooks, it's not to make us angry; it's because they haven't been able to put the G5 in a powerbook yet. You think apple doesn't know that people want a G5 powerbook?
If we see new G4 powerbooks, what you need to realize is that the choice wasn't G4 vs. G5, it was the current line of G4s vs. updated G4s. If the G5 were ready for a PB, it would be in a PB, new G4 or no new G4.
I completely agree, but I think and hope they are there by now. As I've said before, its not like the ibm chip snuck up on them. They knew about it a long time ago, and they have been making preparations since. And as far as changing the controllers, etc., the g5 chip was the biggest issue, and I am sure that apple has been changing the controllers, etc. in expectaion of some sort of g5 chip that would be usuable in pb's long before Ibm delivered the 970fx.
Just my opinion, but if i am wrong, apple has some bad business sense (something I think we all highly doubt)
eSnow said:
One of these things is not like the others
One of things does not belong
One of these things is not like the others
Can you tell which one?
Tiauguinho said:
Isn't is possible that the reason your PB G4 lags your PM G5 is the fact that you are comparing a 550 Mhz machine to a dual 2 Ghz machine. Not to say that a dual 2 Ghz G4 would compete, but I think that there is a lot more to your performance gap than a simple difference in chip architecture.
eSnow said:He got it all wrong: the G4 is able to provide relatively low performance while requiring reasonable power.
Oh, and Joswiak: I have seen the current Powerbooks, and no, that is not sufficient. I ain't going to buy one of those unless Apple provides:
- better screens. Brighter and with a better resolution.
- better battery runtimes.
- faster CPUs.
Since my IIsi (back from '91 - '96), I have never owned any Mac as long as my current Ti/400. Seems I will have to wait still longer...
very good post. i agree 100%.
plus, i don't think i have ever owned an apple as long as my current 667 rev b powerbook ti, except maybe for my first computer, the apple IIe.
of course moto ain't going anywhere, cause apple's uses the g4 all over the place. i think it's only a matter of time before the g5 moves in to complete the apple line. that said, it doesn't make me, nor most other pb/ibook fans happy that we're stuck with the g4 for now. i got a 1.33 ghz pb right now that does the job well enough, but it ain't a g5
hayesk said:
Maybe it's your QuickSilver 733 thats not running as fast as it could
. I'm going to use an "old" 466 G4 DT until Apple brings out a PG G5....this is a step in the wrong direction, Apple needs to forget the G4, they've got the G5 now, they need to figure a way to get the G5 in there.
G4 - yesterday
G5 - tomorrow
G4 - yesterday
G5 - tomorrow
Get over it, the G4 isn't a bad chip -- it's the FSB buses extremely low GB/s bandwidth that sucks and is tanking it's performance.noel4r said:
Motorola has a solution, Rapid I/O, but they are only publicly announcing it for their "other" PowerPC offerings (along with saying on-board memory controller and RIO are the future of the PPC line).
Sucks for us...
The e-Book line and extremely low power PPC chips with RIO and on-board memory controller may be great for their market niche, but their fundamental lack of some instructions and core processing units make them useless for a PowerBook.
The utter and complete lack of news on the 7457-RM (G4+RIO+memory controller) after the Motorola G5 cancelation rumor makes one wonder, since it would have been a great complement for a computer company using the PPC970.
a17inchFuture said:
and i was called being bull sh*tting when i said only desperate people would buy a rev PowerBook G4.
Yet the question of the week which others have commented on:
What is the fastest system bus these CPU's support. That is the major bottleneck, IMHO, at this point.
Honestly, at this point I don't give a rats *** about Motorola. They have screwed Apple so frequently giving minimal incremental speed bumps that considering Motorola as a option for future Apple products seems asinine.
What is the fastest system bus these CPU's support. That is the major bottleneck, IMHO, at this point.
Honestly, at this point I don't give a rats *** about Motorola. They have screwed Apple so frequently giving minimal incremental speed bumps that considering Motorola as a option for future Apple products seems asinine.
