Motorola and Apple

[MacRumors]

Following Motorola's announcement of the 1.5GHz PowerPC G4 processor, eWeek spoke with Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of hardware product marketing.

While unable to speak of future products, Joswiak was positive about Apple's relationship with Motorola indicated that he felt Apple use of Motorola processors would continue into the future.

The most appealing feature cited of the new Motorola Processor was its ability to provide reasonable performance while requiring relatively low power.

 

[trebblekicked]

the mention of "small designs" leads one to believe there's still future products in the pipeline that could use the g4. if moto can deliver even semi-annual power improvements, i suppose it's fine for the ibook/emac lineup for another year or so.

 

[Stolid]

Motorolas in the eMac, maybe even the iMac I have no problem with. But if you ask me Motorola's place is really going to become more restricted. I'd put bets on 'handheld' projects and whatnot; but they've proven they won't update their line very often which leads me to severe worries if new PowerBooks are Motorola G4s. I'd love a PB G5 but its more because I *DON'T* want a G4

 

[virividox]

bring back the cube hehehe

i can dream cant i

 

[Tiauguinho]

The most appealing feature cited of the new Motorola Processor was its ability to provide reasonable performance while requiring relatively low power.

Reasonable performance... It's quite sad that they admit this. I'm anxious for the new Powerbooks since i want to get a new one, my PB G4 550 is already lagging behind, but after using a G5 (I have a Dual G5 2Ghz) I won't buy another G4 at all!

 

[spinko]

Reasonable performance... It's quite sad that they admit this. I'm anxious for the new Powerbooks since i want to get a new one, my PB G4 550 is already lagging behind, but after using a G5 (I have a Dual G5 2Ghz) I won't buy another G4 at all!

Right !! Right !! Right !!

I bought a new AlBook G4 1Ghz/768 MbRAM thinking it could replace a lesser Mhz desktop machine. I sold it 2 weeks later because it only seemed slighly faster than a 466Mhz G4 Desktop Computer (which has more L3 cache but costs a fraction second hand)... Before that I had a Ti550, which was only barely faster than it's predecessor the Ti500 also costing far less secon hand, there again probably because of the missing L3 cache. This time, I'm going to wait until Apple overhawls the architecture in the PB line and adds a G5 chip.

 

[eSnow]

got it wrong

The most appealing feature cited of the new Motorola Processor was its ability to provide reasonable performance while requiring relatively low power.

He got it all wrong: the G4 is able to provide relatively low performance while requiring reasonable power.


Oh, and Joswiak: I have seen the current Powerbooks, and no, that is not sufficient. I ain't going to buy one of those unless Apple provides:
- better screens. Brighter and with a better resolution.
- better battery runtimes.
- faster CPUs.

Since my IIsi (back from '91 - '96), I have never owned any Mac as long as my current Ti/400. Seems I will have to wait still longer...

 

[aswitcher]

Following Motorola's announcement of the 1.5GHz PowerPC G4 processor, eWeek spoke with Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of hardware product marketing.

While unable to speak of future products, Joswiak was positive about Apple's relationship with Motorola indicated that he felt Apple use of Motorola processors would continue into the future.

The most appealing feature cited of the new Motorola Processor was its ability to provide reasonable performance while requiring relatively low power.

Well lets hope Apple have set their mind that G4s go in "i" line and G5s go in the "power" line. I don't want to buy a bandaid machine in the form of a new rev G4 PowerBook.

 

[lind0834]

I wanna see those 1.5 G4s in the iBooks. G5s in the PB, and boost the iBook to top of the line G4s.. Dream Dream Dream.

 

[Analog Kid]

Reasonable performance... It's quite sad that they admit this. I'm anxious for the new Powerbooks since i want to get a new one, my PB G4 550 is already lagging behind, but after using a G5 (I have a Dual G5 2Ghz) I won't buy another G4 at all!

The actual quote is "good performance", if you read the article.

The G4 isn't a bad chip, and Apple has used it well. I think a lot of the resentment to it stems from it's problems as a desktop CPU, where it was clearly outclassed. Every time I'm in a meeting and the Intel folks have to carry in a wall brick and find a way of snaking to a power outlet, I'm reminded of how good the G4 really is....

A meeting has to run over 6 hours before I have to switch batteries.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

bring back the cube hehehe

i can dream cant i

But hopefully not with a G4 !!!! C'mon Apple - bring on the G5 cube with 2GHz

 

[spinko]

The actual quote is "good performance", if you read the article.

The G4 isn't a bad chip, and Apple has used it well. I think a lot of the resentment to it stems from it's problems as a desktop CPU, where it was clearly outclassed. Every time I'm in a meeting and the Intel folks have to carry in a wall brick and find a way of snaking to a power outlet, I'm reminded of how good the G4 really is....

A meeting has to run over 6 hours before I have to switch batteries.

I'm not sure the Desktop G4 implementation is to blame. I'm using a Dual G4 1.25 Mhz DT computer at work and it does fine. I think the lack of cache has given it the reputation of beeing slow, i.e. not snappy for all the repetitive tasks - especially in the Finder. "Snappyness" is very important, psychologically and removing the L3 cache doesn't help making the computer "feel" faster.

By the way, I'm sure they could get much more battery time if they clocked the G4 at 100 Mhz but you certainly wouldn't get much work done ;-)

 

[iHack]

What's with all the negativity? The G4 has served Apple (and us) well and only just has made it to the ibook. A change to a 1,5 MHz G4 in the ibook would be great. That's quite an improvement and beats desktops Apple was just selling a year ago. In an ibook! Way cool, i'd say...

 

[CrackedButter]

The most appealing feature cited of the new Motorola Processor was its ability to provide reasonable performance while requiring relatively low power.

Its so advanced it doesn't have to use DDR memory.

I sold my PB after realising it isn't worth the asking price. I got an eMac instead which is only 250mhz slower and £1000 cheaper! Much better performance price ratio.

 

[Frisco]

I fear this can only delay the time the G5 makes it into other Apple computers, specially the Powerbook

 

[Photorun]

What's with all the negativity? The G4 has served Apple (and us) well and only just has made it to the ibook. A change to a 1,5 MHz G4 in the ibook would be great. That's quite an improvement and beats desktops Apple was just selling a year ago. In an ibook! Way cool, i'd say...

The negativity stems from Moto NOT delivering chips as promised and completely, and I do mean completely, dropping the ball on keeping their chips competitive in the marketplace. Other than fact they are mostly to blame for Apple's performance woes (only perhaps behind Apple sticking with them but they were under contract) I guess Moto is okay. Personally I saw no Moto anywhere as soon as the G5 can be shoe horned into everything, including an eMac. So long Moto, you were the albatross around Apple's neck, good riddance.

PS I saw a white paper on G4's road map (74xx/75xx) a while back and didn't even think the chip had any legs, topping out at maybe, MAYBE, upper 1.x GHz... so what the hell new chip is Moto developing to keep going faster and competitive. Oh right, Moto as a company is about to implode, they don't HAVE a new chip in development.

 

[iLilana]

Reasonable performance... It's quite sad that they admit this. I'm anxious for the new Powerbooks since i want to get a new one, my PB G4 550 is already lagging behind, but after using a G5 (I have a Dual G5 2Ghz) I won't buy another G4 at all!

g4 1.5ghz iBook

g4 isn't cutting it for PB market anymore.

 

[ITR 81]

I fear this can only delay the time the G5 makes it into other Apple computers, specially the Powerbook

Nah the G5 will be delayed because of cooling issues..not because of some new G4 processor.

Remember the dual 1.42Ghz G4 PM?? If not it's because it was replaced by the G5 in less then 3 months...it was a stop gap processor.

 

[allpar]

If you think the G4 is far too slow...are you using 10.3? Earlier versions of OS X had real lag issues. 10.3 seems far "snappier" using the same hardware.

 

[ionas]

What is important and what not

...
- better screens. Brighter and with a better resolution.
- better battery runtimes.
- faster CPUs...

1. screens, 2. battery, 3. cpu

1. you are completely right, those damn small displays regarding resolution,
and mac os x is very pixel hungry. i hope they build in

Model 1 - 12" - SXGA (1280*960), 1,2288 Megapixels
Model 2 - 15" - SXGA+ (1400*1050), 1,47 Megapixels
Model 3 - 15" - WXGA+ (1440*900), 1,296 Megapixels
Model 4 - 17" - WSXGA+ (1680*1050), 1,764 Megapixels
Model 5 - 17" - UXGA (1600*1200), 1,92 Megapixels

all those display pixel sizes are normal displays from the pc market, and dont claim that display from the pc market are crap, there are some, but if i take a look at the ibook - well thats a really bad contrast display as well.

further important points:

- Weight
- Battery Runtime!!!
- Size
- No-Fan-System while doing Internet/Office
- even harder to scratch and break case, maybe some water protection (if
you upend juice onto your notebook's keyboard)
- Backlit-lightsensitive-Keyboard
- Digital Mousebuttons that dont break and are programmable
(per default there is only one mouse button, but you can program it to have
to mice button next to each other)
- Black Onyx Display (2. you are completely right)
- 2-3x USB 2x
- FW 400/800
- SPDIF Out/In
- SVGA Out, DVI Out
- Docking Port
- DVD Burner

Regarding a CPU the 1,5 GHZ G4 fits perfectly into all but of the models,
the G5 might not even be faster if you consider that the bus speed would be only 1/2 or even 1/4 the one of the desktop G5, and that you only got one cpu, and all those things. You cant put a G5 Desktop System into a PB it seems, else apple would have already done that.

the G4. 1.5 GHz is a thing to welcome and not to flame on.
even the wintel front - at least the technicans, see that mhzs isnt important but wireless, low weight, well scaling systems are what ppl really need.

the g5 might be a nice cpu for these things, but the g4 1.5 might as well fit 100%tly cause in a notebook it isnt about pure power.

those who dont get that are either totally stupid , want some super small and light thin client notebook with wireless gigabit connection to a raw power server.

(imagen sub 1 kilo, 1cm high with keyboard and display, - all the system has to do is to put the video stream onto the display, send input control commands to the server)

 

[pbrennen]

Nah the G5 will be delayed because of cooling issues..not because of some new G4 processor.

Remember the dual 1.42Ghz G4 PM?? If not it's because it was replaced by the G5 in less then 3 months...it was a stop gap processor.

i asked this question in the thread about cooligy and apple... what is the problem with cooling and the g5? i was under the impression that a g5 pulls less watts than a g4 at equivalent clock.

 

[blackfox]

G4 @ 1.5GHz....

I know people in these forums have no love for motorola, but I still think the G4 is a good chip, perhaps long in the tooth, but a solid performer. I feel that if the system-bus /memory issues were addressed this G4 would perform quite nicely...that always seemed the problem anyway w/ limiting performance...moto was supposedly tooling around w/ something to this effect...may never see it obviously...but if this chip (or a future iteration) runs cool enough and is implemented thoughtfully, it could have a respectable place in Apple hardwre in the near-future...of course, I'd be in line to buy a PB G5 like the next guy...but done right, I might be for future G4 products too...just thinking...

 

[wrldwzrd89]

I know people in these forums have no love for motorola, but I still think the G4 is a good chip, perhaps long in the tooth, but a solid performer. I feel that if the system-bus /memory issues were addressed this G4 would perform quite nicely...that always seemed the problem anyway w/ limiting performance...moto was supposedly tooling around w/ something to this effect...may never see it obviously...but if this chip (or a future iteration) runs cool enough and is implemented thoughtfully, it could have a respectable place in Apple hardwre in the near-future...of course, I'd be in line to buy a PB G5 like the next guy...but done right, I might be for future G4 products too...just thinking...

Motorola certainly has a bad reputation for delaying their chip releases and having horrible yields on their production process, but that doesn't stop them from releasing chips for Apple. I have a 1.25 GHz G4 17" iMac that I'm very happy with. Now I don't have any real gamers' games, but the one game I do have that will tax the graphics card (realMYST) runs just fine on my iMac, even at max resolution and quality. I bought the iMac in early February because I was tired of waiting for PowerMac G5 upgrades and I figured it would be fast enough for what it's used for. I find the G4 processor in there to be 'snappy' enough. I won't get a G5/G6/G7 until 2007 at the earliest. I know my iMac G4 will be outdated by then, but I don't really care.

 

[gekko513]

I don't believe the cooling issue is the problem with G5s in PBs. I just think it's a question of availability of G5 processors and chipsets. To put G5s in the PB they need redesigned motherboards for the whole PB line (including controllers for RAM and I/O). This is a huge engineering task. It takes time to design this and to test it properly.

They will probably also redo or at least rethink the overall design. We should be grateful that Apple takes the time to develop a quality product rather than put out something in a hurry. I know that Apple (as all other manufacturers) sometimes still gets things wrong with new products, but it could've been much worse. Apple did after all score highest on customer satisfaction-something in the stats from consumer reports recently.

The new G4 processor will not lead to a delay in G5 product development, it will just give us consumers a better product line overall.

 

[gekko513]

The G4 just needs a 533 MHz front side bus. If they could manage that, I think it could still be used successfully in the iBook, eMac line for some years.