Motorola, The G4 and PowerBook Updates

[primalman]

Re: 15" PB update: NOT

Originally posted by wondermite
Apple will NOT update the 15" to a faster CPU than the 17". They have never done that, never will.

*The 15" will be updated when the rest of the line is updated in late Q3.* Get used to it. Meanwhile, I'm using my crappy paint-peeling slow-arse G4/550.

Who says they won't speed bump the entire line at the same time?

12", new 15" and 17". Seems logical to think this since the 12" and 17" have yet to be updated in 6 months.

Maybe 1 or 1.1ghz 12" and 15", and a 1.3 ghz 15" and 17". Hmmmm...

 

[StuPid QPid]

Re: 15" PB update: NOT

Originally posted by wondermite
Apple will NOT update the 15" to a faster CPU than the 17". They have never done that, never will.

Fair enough, but it doesn't mean they can't be equal, as is the case at the moment with the 1 GHz. Admittedly the 17" has a few more bells and whistles (e.g. airport extreme, FW800, Bluetooth built-in etc.)

My guess is they'll update the whole line with the new G4 (MPC7457) with a 1 GHz in the 12", 1Ghz and 1.3 GhZ in the 15.4" and 1.3 GhZ in the 17" - For me that's a nice line up, very tempting...but when????

Anyway why does everyone get so hot and bothered about what type of processor is in their machine? As long as it runs fast, and runs the apps I want e.g. Mac OS X and the iApps of course, then what's the problem. All Macs are at the end of the day are a box to run Mac OS X. What I don't like is buying a Mac, then seeing it updated two weeks later...

 

[macgroove]

Re: Re: Re: 15" PB update: NOT

Originally posted by wondermite
I meant "never upgraded the middle of a line to be better than the high end of the line. In other words, 15" PBs will never be the top of the PB line, unless the 17" is dropped.

I think this is not true! The 17" and the 12" are different from the 15" models. The latter having more models (low-end, middle-end and high-end). It will be just as fast as the 17" in some weeks time i bet u on that!

 

[cb911]

this is good news. i've been thinking that the 7457 might be the way to go, and it sounds like it should have a fair performance gain on the current 1GHz G4.

if it goes to 1.3GHz, with the 15" having the same features as the 17", then i'll be happy.

at least now we've got a rough idea about when it'll be released. this makes the wait a bit more bareable.

 

[greg6028]

New G4 PowerBook Line

Look how many people are talking about having a new PowerBook BEFORE school starts this Fall.
I have to guess Apple knows this and will update all 3 PowerBooks.
My guess
12" at 1 ghz G4
15" at 1.3 ghz G4
17" (too keep it king of hill)
maybe a dual 1.3 ghz G4??
and they will become all available my time school starts up again.
12" and 15" right away, 17" in Sept.
This is my guess-a-mate!

 

[MattG]

Re: New G4 PowerBook Line

Originally posted by greg6028
Look how many people are talking about having a new PowerBook BEFORE school starts this Fall.
I have to guess Apple knows this and will update all 3 PowerBooks.
My guess
12" at 1 ghz G4
15" at 1.3 ghz G4
17" (too keep it king of hill)
maybe a dual 1.3 ghz G4??
and they will become all available my time school starts up again.
12" and 15" right away, 17" in Sept.
This is my guess-a-mate!

Sounds nice, but I just don't know if it's possible to put dual processors in a notebook. Just seems like it'd be too difficult to keep it cool.

 

[gotohamish]

THE G3 IBOOKS ARE SLOW!!!

Give them a G4, and let's have Pro portables, with the new Pro chip damnit!

 

[fraggle]

Re: New G4 PowerBook Line

Originally posted by greg6028
I have to guess Apple knows this and will update all 3 PowerBooks.
My guess
12" at 1 ghz G4
15" at 1.3 ghz G4
17" (too keep it king of hill)
maybe a dual 1.3 ghz G4??

According to Motorola's documents there will be a low-voltage version running at 1GHz which would be a perfect fit for the 12" PB so I agree with that.

When it comes to the 15" and 17" models I am not quite sure what to expect. It would be possible to put two of the low-voltage CPUs in these machines without changing the power usage much compared to one 1.3GHz CPU with normal voltage... What would you prefer?

A dual 1.3GHz is IMHO not really to be expected, the two processors would draw over 30 watt which is really too much for a laptop.

 

[jwdawso]

I think we're expecting too little. The 7457 is a smaller 7455 with some improvements (e.g., bus speed). I'm expecting at least 1.42 as the high end. The 7457 & 7455 are also pin compatible, so expect all 3 PBs to be updated. My prediction -

12" - 7447 - 1 & 1.25 GHz - same price
15" - 7457 - 1.25 & 1.42 GHz - same price
17" - 7457 - 1.42 GHz - $2999

Will the 17" get a dual processor 7457? Possible at $3299. Only one processor runs while on battery.

Unfortunately, G5 PBs won't come until next year (.09 process 970/980?).

one last thing.... The update should take place by August 1. Apple will get the chips first.

 

[maler]

7457 not DDR!

this is from oficial page of motorola:
* Three issue (plus branch) capability
* 128-bit wide vector unit -- AltiVec technology
* Integrated 512K on-chip L2 cache (twice the size of previous generation)
* Full Symmetric Multi-Processing capability (SMP)
* 36-bit physical address space for direct addressability of 64 Gigabytes of memory
* Hardware and Software Tablewalk
* High-bandwidth 133 MHz 64-bit MPX Bus/60x Bus
* 8 BAT registers
* Three power-saving user-programmable modes to reduce power drawn by processor
* Parity checking support on L1, L2 and L3 cache arrays

so OFICIAL max speed for FSB still 133 MHz... and no word about DDR memories. If you would like to know, why Apple is using them for non-ddr procesor, it's quite simple - there are not SDR memories, able to run at 166 MHz - so they need to moove to DDR, even if procesor doesn't support them.

 

[DaBeav]

For the love of god... when?

Wait, what happened to "within weeks?" My head is spinning as well. I was holding out till WWDC to get a 15 and then I was thinking New York in two weeks... now it looks like Christmas. What gives... why are they jerking us around like this? (well I guess we are doing it to ourselves really) So now... the chips ship Q3 (July-Sept.) and then they have to be built. I don't think we are ever going to get a 15. I'll show them... I'm going to get a 17 instead. But then 6 months later the 15 will come out and I will get that and have to sell my 17... but then 6 months later the G5 will show up and...

So what do I do? I am working off a 14'' iBook and it is not cutting it with larger projects and I would like to get an extra monitor for more viewable desktop. And the 15 is the perfect size, and with an extra 17'' monitor would be about the price of one 17'' powerbook.

Does anyone have any credible argument as to wether they will be out in two weeks or 4 months?

 

[tizza]

I'm just hanging out to get my 12'' PB but this could make me hold out for another few months if we do get the new G4's!!!!

As everyone else has been saying too, I seriously can't see G5's going into PB's for a long time because of heat issues. You can't just turn a new desktop processor into a laptop processor overnight.

 

[beefcake]

My only arguement is logic. Apple should know that there are a *lot* of college students looking to buy Powerbooks before the end of August. As it stands now, although with Mac OS X PB's have a longer life than their PC counterparts, you can get a cheaper, faster PC. I really want Apple to pump out an updated PB before I'm forced to make a purchase. I don't want to go to school only to hear that 3 weeks after classes start the line gets updated.

 

[MattG]

I wish they would just give us some kind of idea when these are going to be released so we could all stop playing the guessing game. Even if they did something similar to what they did with the new G5's: Buy now, have it in August. Even if it was after August, just announce it and let us preorder it!! Damnit Apple, I want a laptop and I'm not buying another Ti, no matter how low you drop the prices!

 

[nydoofus]

I was disappointed by lack of a G5 announcement, but about the 7457, isn't this the chip that produces 7.5W of heat? Now I don't know all that much about CPU specifics but wouldn't this decrease in heat imply a decrease in power consumption, producing a decently fast laptop with battery life comparable or faster than the Centrino? Or am I just dreaming?

 

[jbomber]

Re: For the love of god... when?

Originally posted by DaBeav
Wait, what happened to "within weeks?" My head is spinning as well. I was holding out till WWDC to get a 15 and then I was thinking New York in two weeks... now it looks like Christmas. What gives... why are they jerking us around like this? (well I guess we are doing it to ourselves really) So now... the chips ship Q3 (July-Sept.) and then they have to be built. I don't think we are ever going to get a 15. I'll show them... I'm going to get a 17 instead. But then 6 months later the 15 will come out and I will get that and have to sell my 17... but then 6 months later the G5 will show up and...

Does anyone have any credible argument as to wether they will be out in two weeks or 4 months?

Man, this is killing me. I sold my damn 15" TiBook in the hopes that Apple would unveil a laptop as one of those now infamous mystery boxes. But NO! I really didn't think a G5 laptop was feasible, but maybe a speed bumped G4? The line is WAAAAY overdue and right now, I'd just settle for a cosmetic upgrade to the Aluminum feature set. Throw us a bone, man!

Apple's already got enough trouble trying to ship out those G5s by September, i dunno if they're gonna have what it takes to truly update the entire powerbook line in time for Macworld NY. The new chips aren't even due to be finished until Q3, and my guess is we're talking late Q3.

The money's here, burnin a hole in my pocket. Apple better come get it before the bill collectors and student loan people do.

 

[nydoofus]

Just as an aside, is this kind of upgrade enough to warrant a MacWorld (or CreativeExpo or w/e) announcment? To any non-techie observers, it will look merely like a speed bump to 1.3Ghz. Improved version of G4 non-withstanding, its not really something flashy to show off.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Originally posted by nydoofus
I was disappointed by lack of a G5 announcement, but about the 7457, isn't this the chip that produces 7.5W of heat? Now I don't know all that much about CPU specifics but wouldn't this decrease in heat imply a decrease in power consumption, producing a decently fast laptop with battery life comparable or faster than the Centrino? Or am I just dreaming?

As far as I know there is no Centrino chip. Centrino refers to the wireless technology on the laptop but it still runs off of a Pentium 4 M chip. It almost seems like Intel is trying to hide that by in some of the ads...

A PB G4 1.3 GHz w/ DDR 400 would make an excellent portable.

 

[pilotgi]

I'm not impressed. I've known about the 7457 since about the beginning of the year and the most umimpressive thing is the bus speed. Yes, there will be some improvement over the current G4's, but it's a modest upgrade.

There will be a die shrink to 130 nm, SOI, and an increase in the clockspeed. Moto never said that the bus speed would increase. I don't know where the 200 Mhz fsb spec comes from because that's not what they said originally.

If it's true, then I'll be more impressed. If it's not then... pssst, Hey Moto.... it's about the bandwidth stupid.

 

[slightlyoff]

Originally posted by Cobra Commander
As far as I know there is no Centrino chip. Centrino refers to the wireless technology on the laptop but it still runs off of a Pentium 4 M chip. It almost seems like Intel is trying to hide that by in some of the ads...

Oh boy...here we go.

"Centrino" is a marketing name and Trademark registered by Intel for the express purpose of getting OEM's and VAR's to purchase both the Pentium 3M and their 802.11b chipset. There is no "Centrino" chip, as such. There _is_ however a set of WiFi and CPU combinations which may be certified to carry the "Centrino" brand name.

That said, only the Pentium3M is currently available under the Centrino name (NOT the P4M). The P3M takes many of the same design routes that allow the G4 to have anything like acceptable performance (big local cache, etc..) despite the accompanying ****ty IO subsystems of laptops and the need to clock mobile chips lower so they don't char your legs.

As for Intel being caught with their marketing pants down, why do you think they had to come up with something like the "Centrino" brand anyway? For years and years they produced mind-numbingly clocked, cache-starved RISC processors with a CISC front-end and sold them by the boatload because their customers don't give a flying pig's hoof how many cache misses they suffered when using MS Word. AMD and Motorola have both called their bluff now, and the instruction starvation is catching up with them. To make a bad position worse, they can't very well renig on the years of marketing (and the really deep pipline decisions made with the the P4) and suddenly pronounce "slower is better!", now can they?

 

[macquariumguy]

Originally posted by MattG
At least with my PC, I can rip out the processor and stick a new one in there.

Really? You can take the processor out of a Dell (or any other brand) laptop and replace it with a faster one? I'm impressed.

 

[scan300]

R&D costs..

Apple's Powerbook line is selling well. They don't need to bring out anything revolutionary above what's announced earlier this year in that area.

You won't see Apple slapping in a 970 in a PB without being able to resolve a raft of power / heat management issues as well as getting the performance architecture to match the performance of the chip. Maybe they are already working on an architecture that utilises the 980 at .09 micron fab that will work in portables, but won't be ready till 2005.

 

[DrGonzo]

There will be a die shrink to 130 nm

I can shrink the die 13nm->9nm, give me the file, i'll open it in photoshop, transform->scale, shrink it down a little, and then print it! New processors, smaller, faster, and better, FOR ALL!

EDIT: btw Apple, i am also a returning college student and while i don't need the laptop right away in August i would like to see something worthy released soon, don't disappoint me!

 

[nydoofus]

Originally posted by macquariumguy
Really? You can take the processor out of a Dell (or any other brand) laptop and replace it with a faster one? I'm impressed.

Actually you can. My ugly Dell Inspiron is theoretically upgradable top 1Ghz. I say theoritcal because the chips cost a hellvua lot, making it not that cost effective.

 

[nydoofus]

Originally posted by slightlyoff
Oh boy...here we go.

"Centrino" is a marketing name and Trademark registered by Intel for the express purpose of getting OEM's and VAR's to purchase both the Pentium 3M and their 802.11b chipset. There is no "Centrino" chip, as such. There _is_ however a set of WiFi and CPU combinations which may be certified to carry the "Centrino" brand name.

That said, only the Pentium3M is currently available under the Centrino name (NOT the P4M). The P3M takes many of the same design routes that allow the G4 to have anything like acceptable performance (big local cache, etc..) despite the accompanying ****ty IO subsystems of laptops and the need to clock mobile chips lower so they don't char your legs.

As for Intel being caught with their marketing pants down, why do you think they had to come up with something like the "Centrino" brand anyway? For years and years they produced mind-numbingly clocked, cache-starved RISC processors with a CISC front-end and sold them by the boatload because their customers don't give a flying pig's hoof how many cache misses they suffered when using MS Word. AMD and Motorola have both called their bluff now, and the instruction starvation is catching up with them. To make a bad position worse, they can't very well renig on the years of marketing (and the really deep pipline decisions made with the the P4) and suddenly pronounce "slower is better!", now can they?

Hehe, I had an opportunity to watch a salesman try to explain to a clueless customer that the P3M 1.6Ghz is faster than a P4M 2.0Ghz. "But it's faster see, its got more Ghz". Eventually he got through by comparing it to a long distance car race.