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Motorola's MPC7457 Soon?

Originally posted by ktlx

IBM's focus will not be on desktops because I believe they rightly understand they cannot make enough money to justify the costs. They will continue to improve their PowerPC lines for workstations not to compete with the WinTel world, but with HP and Sun. Although most of the hype for the 970 has been around Apple's use, the 970 will be a great processor for next generation networking devices. A 64-bit processor will be very desirable in IPv6 network devices even though it does not offer a lot of advantages in an IPv4 network device.

If Apple tries to compete head to head on a raw horsepower basis they will loose because Intel has the resources to simply outspend Motorola and IBM on chip R&D.
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quite true, but I see IBM having *other* BIG BIG plans for the 970 as well. The Power4 is a power/heat machine. Totally unsuitable for Blades. I'm betting that IBM has Linux blades in mind for their 970 research dollars. They're *very* low power, fall in line with the rest of IBM's pSeries (can run Linux and VM and AIX). So I think that the fact that the 970 is likely to be within cost/performance reach of Apple is just an added bonus for *IBM*. Just another customer instead of selling only to themselves and Nortel (Nortel is a big PPC user).

Although... we just returned a nortel Alteon 180e switch (which had a g3 *per port* on a 12 port layer 7 switch) because it was a hunk of junk... *grin* But that's a /. kinda topic. ;)

Anyway, I think that IBM has blade shapped stars in their eyes when they look at the 970 and the fact that Apple can probably use it is just Lagniappe.

Dharvabinky

oh, btw, Lagniappe is a local word, sorry... it's cajun french and it means "A little something extra". (pronounced Laan-yop)

here endeth the local cajun lesson. ;)
 
There is life left in the G4 for Mac users, if the 64-bit address version appears.

Even if the 7457-RM comes to market and is highly competetive alternative to the 970, without 64-bit address lines -- even the glowing speed the 7457-RM would show the world in a Mac will pale in comparison to a 2-4GB memory limit this Christmas.
 
primalman, I'd have to say I agree with you on almost all the points - particularly regarding having to work with the relevant operating systems. As for the RAM issue, unfortunately I don't have enough cash to upgrade to a new DP PowerMac and I don't think Digit will re-run the tests just for me, but I do still think improvements are needed within the PowerMac range - and I don't just mean in processor speed. More attention needs to be paid to the MoBo's, graphics card and IDE interface. The PowerMac's are good, I'm just saying that they should be great.

By the way, I've got an old PowerMac 7500 lieing around somewhere, I'm sure I could do you a deal on that - just think how money you could make then ;)

Regarding Fukui comments, the computer suppliers were 'invited' by Digit to supply machines for testing as close to the £2000 mark as possible. Digit then tested what was sent. As for the examples I quoted, only the Dell came close. Apple UK shot itself in the foot sending a £1700 Mac to a £2000 party, when as suggested by primalman, they could have evened the field a bit by adding extra RAM.
 
Stupid Apple

Regarding Fukui comments, the computer suppliers were 'invited' by Digit to supply machines for testing as close to the £2000 mark as possible. Digit then tested what was sent. As for the examples I quoted, only the Dell came close. Apple UK shot itself in the foot sending a £1700 Mac to a £2000 party, when as suggested by primalman, they could have evened the field a bit by adding extra RAM.
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That was pretty stupid of apple.
 
Originally posted by MikeH
By the way, I've got an old PowerMac 7500 lieing around somewhere, I'm sure I could do you a deal on that - just think how money you could make then ;)
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LOL! Just to let you in a secret, I use a PowerCenter Pro 180 604e for my at home freelance stuff. :D At my day job I am lucky enough to have a 667 G4.

That PCP180 has done me good for the last 5 years, but I tell you, I have put about every upgrade I can into it short of processor and 100BT. Its got USB, FW, ATA/133 card, upgraded ATI card, etc. I just do not want to sink more money into it, it's a pit in the long run, cause I can only fit in G3 cards, no G4s allowed.
 
Re: Imagine...

Originally posted by sedarby
Imagine this, Apple goes with the 7457. IBM comes out with the 970 with much fanfare. We all wait in anticipation for Apple to announce use of the 970 but instead announces a speed bumped 7457 or newer processor from Motorola. When asked they admit that Motorola is their supplier for processors for the forseeable future.

If Apple goes with the 7457 with all the redesign and retooling that would entail, why would they change processor lines for the 970 one or two updates later? I hope they pass on the 7457 and gear up for the 970, but that is just my preference.
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OK, this post puts it in a nutshell. The 7457 is PIN-COMPATIBLE with the 7455. NO REDESIGN OR RETOOLING IS NEEDED. Once Apple transitions to the 7457 - and why wouldn't they? - there will be no more 7455's used. They won't put older, hotter, more expensive chips in the low-end machines.

Secondly, Apple can switch to the 7457 at almost no cost whatsoever, so they are still free to think about the 970... but as sedarby points out, don't be too shocked if Apple doesn't use the 970.
 
Re: Re: Imagine...

Originally posted by cubist


OK, this post puts it in a nutshell. The 7457 is PIN-COMPATIBLE with the 7455. NO REDESIGN OR RETOOLING IS NEEDED. Once Apple transitions to the 7457 - and why wouldn't they? - there will be no more 7455's used. They won't put older, hotter, more expensive chips in the low-end machines.

Secondly, Apple can switch to the 7457 at almost no cost whatsoever, so they are still free to think about the 970... but as sedarby points out, don't be too shocked if Apple doesn't use the 970.
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If apple doesn't use the 970 (which they will use, for lack of a better chip) I will go to apple and start poking random people with sticks.

Saying 'Why you so stupid! Use IBM 970' I will keep poking intill somone listens. :D
 
Originally posted by Chomolungma


I rather have a million bit processor running at a sedate 100 Mhz:D
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Hahahahahaha.... You're aware that a million bit 100MHz processor would be SLOWER than a 32 bit 100MHz processor? I'll take a 128 core 8 way superscalar 100MHz processor (maybe, if people start multithreading), but not the one you suggested (think "slower than a Pentium 1").
 
In my opinion - to echo some comments already posted, the updated G4 will still be required for Apple's consumer range (and for a period of time almost certainly the powerbook). So this processor is great news. The 970 will be required, if Apple wishes to continue to sell PowerMacs to creative professionals. Look at their SEC filings (http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=aapl&script=11906&layout=7&item_id='index.htm'), they have lost 59% of their PowerMac business since 2000!. Ok the IT industry has also dropped, but the reality is that Intel has been able to sqeeze 3GHz out of the P4 which can now run the Apps (Adobe/Quark/Macromedia) faster and cheaper - consumers are not stupid, even the video market is fast migrating to Linux from Avid (not to Apple).

No the 970 is imperative not only for the PowerMac but also for the xServer family. With 64bit OS X Server this would be a killer product for Apple in its core markets, and no one better than Jobs knows this. Thankfully Apple's existing creative customers have not yet abandoned the platform yet, but the clock is ticking.
 
Originally posted by DharvaBinky
quite true, but I see IBM having *other* BIG BIG plans for the 970 as well. The Power4 is a power/heat machine. Totally unsuitable for Blades. I'm betting that IBM has Linux blades in mind for their 970 research dollars. They're *very* low power, fall in line with the rest of IBM's pSeries (can run Linux and VM and AIX). So I think that the fact that the 970 is likely to be within cost/performance reach of Apple is just an added bonus for *IBM*.
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Doh. I forgot about blades (which I should not have since I said that a while ago).

Just another customer instead of selling only to themselves and Nortel (Nortel is a big PPC user).
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I think all of the telecom manufacturers are big PowerPC users. It really is the best processor out there for NEBS environments. The AMD and Intel furnaces are just too hot and the MIPS seems to have run out of gas. I think it also has to do with the good relationship they had with Motorola and its 68K line.
 
Trans-500MHz G4s for B&Ws??!!??

I am sick to death of all the wonderful G4 upgrades for... G4s. I am sick of all the G3 upgrades for PowerMac 7500s with PCI slots (are there G4 upgrades for them, too?). The two remaining players in the Mac upgrade market are slipping over the Yikes! Macs with great ease. And I'm totally sick of it.
 
Why not the 7457 now?

If, as rumored, the 7457 is in production or close to production, why didn't Apple wait a month and use them in the "new" Power Macs. Why after six months did we get such a timid upgrade instead?
While the 7457 is not a powerful as the IBM 970, it is available or close to it, now - unlike the 970 which we probably won't see in unit that is actually shipping until 2004. According to last quarter's sales, the Power Mac needs something now.
The bigger cache and faster system bus would definitely deliver a perfomance increase that would be quite noticable both on benchmarks and daily user experience. Keep in mind both Intel and AMD have had 512kb L2 cache for quite some time. However, most x86 boxes don't have 4mb of L3 cache per processor (the Xeon systems are an exception) - if Apple could do that at these price points, that would really turn some heads.
Since these chips line up pin for pin, there would have to be only a minor revision to the current motherboards - mainly tweaks to take advantage of the faster system bus. Therefore, Apple wouldn't have to spend gobs of R&D on a board that will be replaced when the 970 appears.
So then, the question remains why didn't Apple choose this processor?
 
Maybe Apple will break there own trend (6 month product cycle) and do a pm revision with the 7457. Get the full bus support and add the extra's as mentioned earlier. That would be nice and unexpected.
 
Originally posted by pgwalsh
Maybe Apple will break there own trend (6 month product cycle) and do a pm revision with the 7457. Get the full bus support and add the extra's as mentioned earlier. That would be nice and unexpected.
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Nah, they can stick to the 6 month schedule and give us the 7457 this summer (note the 6 week shipping time on the 1.43GHz PM, they're having a hard enough time getting fast 7455s).
 
Originally posted by Rustus Maximus
The 970 will be in new PowerMacs by July...;)
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Don't you just love a dreamer. Nope, August/September at the earliest since 3rd quarter is when the chip will be available in quantity according to IBM (you know, the ones MAKING the chip).
 
7457? whats that, anyways i just saw 7455's 1.2 ghz for $609 at owc. at this rate maybe ill just upgrade my powermac and forget all this rumors of 7457 and 970 for a while! Bring on DOOM3!:eek:
 
We dreamers make the world go round...besides this same IBM, you know, the ones MAKING the chip, could be giving misleading info...

but again, it's just a dream I have...:D
 
Re: Fantasy, but I feel this could really happen...

Originally posted by primalman
The iBook will join the G4 family in this later half of the year, but with the older MPC7455 chips running up to say 1.1 ghz. The eMac line will share the same MPC 7455 at up to maybe 1.1 ghz. These both will retain the 133 mhz bus and same form factor/feature set, except for APX.
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The rest of your predictions makes sense, but I don't think you will see the 7455 in the iBook. If (that's a big IF) the iBook gets the G4 anytime, it would make more sense to have it with 7457. Why? Because of heat dissipation. They could afford a 7457 on a 133MHz bus and a lower multiplier (giving you, I don't know, something like 867MHz or 1 GHz) running quite cool, while the other machines (apart from the PowerMacs, them on 970s) are pushing the buses and multipliers to scale the 7457 from 1.25 to 1.66 or 1.8GHz or something... Does that make any sense?

Anyway, this is all wishful thinking, and I also believe that this building up of expectations concerning the 970 is not good. People are expecting way too much of this processor. Que sera sera...

NicoMan
 
Re: Imagine...

Originally posted by sedarby
If Apple goes with the 7457 with all the redesign and retooling that would entail, why would they change processor lines for the 970 one or two updates later? I hope they pass on the 7457 and gear up for the 970, but that is just my preference.
Click to expand...
Who says a major redesign is needed. The 7457 is still from the same family as the 7455, and the changes on the mobo might be minimal. Apple could release just as speedbumped G4 and thats that. It would certainly help the iMac and PowerBooks designs, where heat dissipation is an important issue (imagine if you reduce the power consumption of the processor in a iMac, you could very well use other hungrier components, like a more powerful graphics card for example). All I am saying is that by speedbumping (a little, as usual) the iMac and PowerBook designs, they could also get a more energy efficient processor through the 7457, which would give the Apple engineeers a wider range of options for other subsystems.
And in that case, choice is good. To me that is the main interest of that 7457.

NicoMan
 
Originally posted by MikeH


In all fairness, the suppliers were asked to supply a workstation class computer which would retail for £2000. Credit would be given if they had supplied a particularly good value machine for less than that.

So Apple could have added the extra memory themselves and not been penalised. However I don't think it would have doubled the render speed or knocked 60 seconds off the Photoshop test even if they had of done. Incedently the Dell and the IBM were not fastest of the PC's, the Amari scored 66s for P'shop and 25m47s for LW, but as they are a much smaller company they don't really compete directly with Apple's overheads, but it does show what's available for £2000.

Don't get me wrong, I like the PowerMacs but in the last year or so they are falling behind in performance terms with PC's, when they should really be up there straight out the box.

OS X and Apple software is good value leads the way. For the money, so should it's pro level hardware.
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Even if I agree with you that there is no question that the Mac would lose in that test, what interests me a lot is the difference between the Dell and the IBM. I would say the RAM made a massive difference. I am not saying that with 1GB the Mac or the IBM would have been the fastest (maybe the IBM? who knows...) but I don't think the difference between the 3 machine would have been that big.

The thing is, when you run a single app in those tests (like photoshop), you don't really reap the benefits of the 2 processors of the Mac. It's more like '1.5*1GHz G4' vs '2.8 P4' and there is no real battle. Now in a working environment when you are rendering in the background while doing something else (browsing or whatever), I'll bet those results wouldn't be that clear-cut. The OSX-running dual processor mac really shines in that environment. But as far as raw processing power goes, the 2.8GHz P4 is clearly ahead.

That's my opinion anyway...


NicoMan
 
Dreamers or not? Apple WILL introduce the 970 PowerMac in July, as long as Apple can fulfill its required backorders BEFORE the end of the quarter (and financial year) September 30. Think Business!
 
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