Mouse on iPad Pro

[engineerben]

I understand why people like this idea - when using an external keyboard, I sometimes find myself fumbling for a trackpad just below the keyboard before I think, "Oops...wrong interface!"

There's one good reason why Apple might officially support a trackpad somewhere in the future: it takes away one objection to the iPad as "not being a real computer." (The other biggie is lack of a user-accessible file system, but that's another topic...) Of course, the pointing device mustn't do anything a finger couldn't do, like actions on hover (on Macs and PCs hover often brings up a tooltip). Since fingers can't hover, the mouse shouldn't initiate any action until an actual click event is sensed.

My fear is that without some pretty stringent rules in place the touch interface would quickly be relegated to second place as developers already familiar with indirect pointer methods abandon touch-first in favor of direct ports of PC and Mac software. At that point, iPad loses its competitive edge against Windows - a platform with a lot of mouse-first apps but a real dearth of touch first apps.

 

[sjleworthy]

i'd love a mouse.

i understand the purists, but the option at least would be nice. wouldnt harm anyone.

 

[Rogifan]

I honestly don't think anyone Apple cares whether some people think iPad is a "real computer" or not. If they do then it's up to Apple to educate people that "real computers" aren't defined by desktop metaphors anymore.

 

[Rogifan]

I never understood why physical keyboards and mice for the iPad evoke such strong emotional responses such as this.

I'm talking specifically about a mouse pointer. And yes I do think Steve Jobs would be rolling in his grave if Apple ever brought a mouse pointer to iOS. However I do think there's more Apple can do to better support hardware keyboards with iPad Pro. That doesn't mean bring a mouse to iOS.

 

[engineerben]

I honestly don't think anyone Apple cares whether some people think iPad is a "real computer" or not. If they do then it's up to Apple to educate people that "real computers" aren't defined by desktop metaphors anymore.

Perhaps, but I think Apple is certainly influenced by market forces. They (thankfully) didn't jump on the Netbook bandwagon, but after a couple of cycles they did jump on the phablet train, to great success. If the convertible notebook turns out to be a thing bigger than just Microsoft's (and other Windows licensees) attempt to play in the tablet space, then it wouldn't surprise me if Apple nudged the IPP more in that direction.

I suspect, however, that convertible PCs will remain a niche product...

 

[sracer]

Except adding a mouse to iOS is adding something completely new to the interface. There is no floating point cursor in iOS. It's not as simple as adding the bluetooth support like the keyboard. It already has a software keyboard, so a physical one doesn't require any major OS changes the way a mouse would. Not to say it couldn't (or shouldn't) be done, but I think it would take a lot more work than simply adding bluetooth support.

Have you ever tried using a mouse on an Android tablet? or on a jailbroken iPad? When the OS detects a mouse, it displays a pointer. No mouse, no pointer. It works in the similar way as the physical keyboard... when the OS detects a physical keyboard, then no virtual keyboard is displayed.

 

[maflynn]

A mouse would negate the TOUCH interface. No need for a mouse.

I actually like using my mouse (or touchpad) with my SP3. What I mean is that a mouse/pointing device can definitely improve user experience and efficiency.

 

[sracer]

I'm talking specifically about a mouse pointer. And yes I do think Steve Jobs would be rolling in his grave if Apple ever brought a mouse pointer to iOS. However I do think there's more Apple can do to better support hardware keyboards with iPad Pro. That doesn't mean bring a mouse to iOS.

I find it interesting that you seem to know Steve Jobs so well that you know how he would respond... as if his vision was perfect, never changed direction, and never made a mistake. I seem recall "someone" calling people out for that.

Yes I understand that you were talking specifically about a mouse. But the emotional response you exhibited, "Apple jumped the shark", "Cook should be fired" is similarly shared by those who feel the same way about a physical keyboard.

 

[Rogifan]

I find it interesting that you seem to know Steve Jobs so well that you know how he would respond... as if his vision was perfect, never changed direction, and never made a mistake. I seem recall "someone" calling people out for that.

Yes I understand that you were talking specifically about a mouse. But the emotional response you exhibited, "Apple jumped the shark", "Cook should be fired" is similarly shared by those who feel the same way about a physical keyboard.

I wasn't being completely serious with that Steve Jobs comment. I do find it amusing though the people complain about the lack of innovation from Apple yet the only "innovative" things they can think of for iPad Pro are a mouse cursor and filesystem.

 

[mw360]

I never understood why physical keyboards and mice for the iPad evoke such strong emotional responses such as this.

I can't speak for the author, but I would have tempted to post the same thing, and if I had, it would have been out of fear that Apple would listen (for once) and go ahead and actually do it. The reason I wouldn't want that, is because I like iPads more or less as they are, or at least I like the direction in which they appear to be striving. I don't want them to introduce more laptop paraphernalia, because that would encourage developers to revert back to the old paradigms and before you know it we'd need all that stuff to make our apps work optimally, and iPad would just be another laptop nagging me to sit at a proper desk. (Except it would be a very expensive laptop where all the bits fall off when you try to move it)

 

[AbSoluTc]

I actually like using my mouse (or touchpad) with my SP3. What I mean is that a mouse/pointing device can definitely improve user experience and efficiency.

SP3 is a desktop OS first, touch interface second. I can see and understand why a mouse works on a Surface. I don't see how it would benefit anyone on an iPad.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

I find it interesting that you seem to know Steve Jobs so well that you know how he would respond... as if his vision was perfect, never changed direction, and never made a mistake. I seem recall "someone" calling people out for that.

Yes I understand that you were talking specifically about a mouse. But the emotional response you exhibited, "Apple jumped the shark", "Cook should be fired" is similarly shared by those who feel the same way about a physical keyboard.

this really. This a downside to how Jobs left the job...and this world really. Somehow it became a cult thing for lack of better word. Let us read from Jobs 1:2. Don't get me wrong, the man did great things. He lead the company his way, Time to move one. New sheriff in town. Maybe I am more tolerant of change. Prior active duty Marine. In 5 years (special contract due to tech school....in case some are thinking 4 years tours and what happened on the second one lol).

Saw 3 Commandants serve, a few Sergeants Major of the Marine Corps as well, did some unit changes...how one MEF does one things not the same as the other ones. Nor its sub commands. TL;DR. New leadership on deck at various levels, visions and directive changes. Civilian side can see this less. Apparently to their detriment. Marines I served with we had a fun saying...Semper Gumby. Always flexible (like gumby lol). That phrase serves me well even today as a civilian tbh.

Why I fought the apple change for years. Won't even lie...I disliked the zealots of the church of apple. Some make *nix geeks (I am kind of one...so not an insult imo) seem tame and normal in comparison. And *nix geeks can get into geek holy wars over vague and odd things. I say I hate vi and much prefer nano when in CLI on a *nix box...and to some those are actually fighting words if not borderline heresy. We never go however that is not what Linus intended. Nor do we request an audience with him to have changes approved from on high.

Hell even the CLI or you are fail zealots embraced gui front ends getting more focus in time if only to ease the masses to like *nix to make having linux take off out of the server room.

 

[phillyboy82]

SP3 is a desktop OS first, touch interface second. I can see and understand why a mouse works on a Surface. I don't see how it would benefit anyone on an iPad.

Many of us have already mentioned the reason. The iPP makes a perfect remote desktop access device with its 13" screen size, and some of us would like to take advantage of that.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Many of us have already mentioned the reason. The iPP makes a perfect remote desktop access device with its 13" screen size, and some of us would like to take advantage of that.

This really. hearing grand tales of office work and IPP fitting it nicely as well. Better tell these people they are doing it wrong...they seem to be using excel or word (variants) like they would on a surface.

Got quite a few years of iOS seat time but have not found my say copy paste times in iOS approaching skill with a mouse. Good high quality mouse, skill with the hands and I have highlighted text copied (keyboard or select copy in drop down) and on to paste in about the same time iOS has passed the time to realize oh, you want to call up select options around this area of text. And the blue dots for text selection...love hate with them best describes that relationship. More hate.



Physical layout aspects also a factor. Apple started this with nice prop up stands, keyboard for this. It is saying hey....maybe try this desktop style. I had this setup with iPads already in the past. This is not new to me. Been down this road before.

Prop up iPad at angle (or have a nice stand as I have in the past), wireless keyboard borrowed from mac book pro when attached to the t-bolt display. the physical setup and workflows of solely touch screen mixed with lots of arrow key presses as control of cursor in a document did not impress me. It was just awkward. And had me go even then...mouse would be so nice.

 

[phillyboy82]

If I could get a damn Apple Pencil then I would see if that is an improvement or not. At least you don't have to reach as far to touch the screen

I agree that that some functions (like copy/paste) are way easier to do with a mouse instead of your finger. I think some workflows might be okay, but not all of them.

 

[DNichter]

I would normally say no, this would never ever happen. And I definitely hope it doesn't. But I would have said the same thing about the Apple Pencil also. I never thought that would happen, but it seems like this new Apple is very different and open to expanding on different use cases we never thought were possible before. In my eyes, all the iPad needs is for iOS to continue to add OS X - like features that bring it closer and closer to where people feel they can be as productive on an iPad as they are on a Mac. I just wish it would happen more rapidly than it is.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

It needs to happen if Apple actually wants to compete with Surface Pro. I wouldn't consider the iPP for any real work if it didn't involve the pen. Everything requires a vertical screen touch, which is a terrible ergonomic situation (the exact point people always bring up when the crowd asks for a touchscreen MBP).

The file system is the other big one, and I can't believe the things people say when users complain about this. "Use the cloud!" Yes, because when I want to transfer files between devices in the same room my first thought is "I'll upload this to rented server space on the internet and then download it from the other device." Airdrop, but only to macs. iOS already has a sandboxed file system interface they could expand to other file types (it's the photo library).

Both of those need to change or the SP will sink the iPP completely in the productivity market. The iPP has exactly one thing going for it right now in this area: Tech illiterates hate Windows. Doesn't change the fact that most people in offices are familiar with Windows and wouldn't feel uncomfortable on a SP, even if they prefer iOS. When they find out how frustrating it is to get work done without a cursor or file system Windows will be looking better.

As a pure tablet (with a pen) the iPP is a great piece of hardware, but that's not what productivity means in most offices.

 

[modernaccord]

Here's a question for all the naysayers: Why not have the option?

Sure, it'll require additional iOS back-end support, but as long as the touch targets are nice and big, you're really not deviating from the design philosophy of using fingers as the primary pointing device.

Steve Jobs himself, though, said that the arm fatigues by making a laptop display touch sensitive. Wouldn't Apple want to mitigate that by adding the option of a horizontal pointing device? Apple just needs to make it such that the user has the option to use a mouse OR fingers.

 

[Night Spring]

Here's a question for all the naysayers: Why not have the option?

Sure, it'll require additional iOS back-end support, but as long as the touch targets are nice and big, you're really not deviating from the design philosophy of using fingers as the primary pointing device.

Steve Jobs himself, though, said that the arm fatigues by making a laptop display touch sensitive. Wouldn't Apple want to mitigate that by adding the option of a horizontal pointing device? Apple just needs to make it such that the user has the option to use a mouse OR fingers.

In theory, that sounds good. I'm just not convinced that in practice, a system can be designed in such a way that it supports both mouse and touch input without detracting from either.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

In theory, that sounds good. I'm just not convinced that in practice, a system can be designed in such a way that it supports both mouse and touch input without detracting from either.

That doesn't strike me as a real problem. Most users won't have a mouse and so it would be a poor choice for an app developer to make a mouse-focused interface. It would severely harm their sales, they won't do it. And of course Apple's App Store allows them to enforce a policy of touch-first UI. The mouse cursor's function would simply be to emulate touch (like it already does when you run the dev simulator).

 

[Rogifan]

It needs to happen if Apple actually wants to compete with Surface Pro. I wouldn't consider the iPP for any real work if it didn't involve the pen. Everything requires a vertical screen touch, which is a terrible ergonomic situation (the exact point people always bring up when the crowd asks for a touchscreen MBP).

The file system is the other big one, and I can't believe the things people say when users complain about this. "Use the cloud!" Yes, because when I want to transfer files between devices in the same room my first thought is "I'll upload this to rented server space on the internet and then download it from the other device." Airdrop, but only to macs. iOS already has a sandboxed file system interface they could expand to other file types (it's the photo library).

Both of those need to change or the SP will sink the iPP completely in the productivity market. The iPP has exactly one thing going for it right now in this area: Tech illiterates hate Windows. Doesn't change the fact that most people in offices are familiar with Windows and wouldn't feel uncomfortable on a SP, even if they prefer iOS. When they find out how frustrating it is to get work done without a cursor or file system Windows will be looking better.

As a pure tablet (with a pen) the iPP is a great piece of hardware, but that's not what productivity means in most offices.

A filesystem I can maybe see but a mouse pointer no way. I'd rather have Apple think outside the box then just bringing desktop metaphors to touch-first devices. John Gruber complained about the iPad Pro keyboard in his review but even he said on Twitter he doesn't want a mouse pointer on iOS.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

A filesystem I can maybe see but a mouse pointer no way. I'd rather have Apple think outside the box then just bringing desktop metaphors to touch-first devices. John Gruber complained about the iPad Pro keyboard in his review but even he said on Twitter he doesn't want a mouse pointer on iOS.

I highly doubt a Jobs-less Apple is going to be the company to finally come up with a suitable replacement for the on-screen pointer, certainly not in the next year or so. It's stuck around this long because it's a simple idea that works consistently.

People who need to get work done aren't going to wait for some hypothetical out of the box solution. If you're trying to get work done now and comparing the iPP vs SP, the SP wins hands down. Outside Apple-focused forums the consensus is overwhelming.

Personally I'm not sure if Apple really wants that market, in which case this approach makes sense. Even the SP's true calling is as a portable pen input device that has the option to do laptop work, and in that usage case full Windows isn't doing it any favors.

 

[mw360]

The file system is the other big one, and I can't believe the things people say when users complain about this. "Use the cloud!" Yes, because when I want to transfer files between devices in the same room my first thought is "I'll upload this to rented server space on the internet and then download it from the other device." Airdrop, but only to macs. iOS already has a sandboxed file system interface they could expand to other file types (it's the photo library).

When I want to transfer my files between devices in the same room, my first thought also is not about uploading to rented server space. I don't have any thought about it whatsoever. In fact I didn't even need to have the thought about wanting to transfer it. It was already there before I even knew I wanted it to be. I do not miss moving those files manually - what a ridiculous waste of life that used to be.

For a while this only worked with text files, then it worked with documents and spreadsheets, now it works with drawings, photos and music. Later it will work with video, complex illustrations and CAD projects. There's no point going back, it'll be better this way.

 

[Night Spring]

The mouse cursor's function would simply be to emulate touch

That's not what I hear people asking for. They want the iPad to run desktop-like apps with desktop-like functions, and they want the mouse to work like it does on a desktop.

If you just want a way to perform touch functions without taking your hands off the keyboard, you don't need a mouse. Just use the arrow keys to move the cursor, shift-arrow to select, enter to click, control-enter to right click, etc. If Apple ever implements that kind of control scheme for iOS, I'm all for it.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

That's not what I hear people asking for. They want the iPad to run desktop-like apps with desktop-like functions, and they want the mouse to work like it does on a desktop.

Well you don't want to listen to specifically what people ask for... it's more about understanding what their problems are and finding a solution. Listen to the details and you'll end up with the worst design-by-comittee device imaginable.

People may say they want the interface to be more desktop-like, but what I hear is that they hate reaching up to touch the screen, which is a reasonable ergonomic concern IMO. If you can solve that without a mouse cursor then great, but I don't see how (hotkeys aren't enough).