I really would like to know what problems people are having with Mail.app and IMAP. I must be missing something because it is working fine for me on my Mac Pro, MacBook, and iPhone, all of which (except the iPhone) are running Leopard 10.5.1.
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Mozilla Thunderbird or Mac Mail?
- Thread starter Mr.PS
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It's funky. Doesn't send stuff to sent folder sometimes and doesn't move stuff to trash on the server correctly. It's also buggy with TLS SMTP.
Hm... Never had those problems. My inbox, sent, and trash folders all remain in sync with all three Apple devices, plus my Windows machine on Outlook at work. As a matter of fact, Mail.app is the reason I switched to IMAP in the first place.
As far as TLS SMTP... No idea what that is.
It doesn't do IMAP folder subscriptions which I take advantage of in Thunderbird.
I have to admit that I have no idea what you are talking about. Folder subscriptions? Is that like the "Starred" folder for GMAIL? If so, I can drag mail to this folder and it moves it accordingly. What are you seeing as not working, or am I missing the point?
well, i'm trying to make the switch right now, and for one thing, I just deleted ALL of my sent mail.
It happened when I was trying to assign folders with the "use this as" function. Fortunately, I use Tuffmail, and my folder is being restored now no problem. But Tuffmail support said that this has happened with several of their Mac users.
I'm also not liking the choices you have for what's stored locally. Isn't that one of the beauties of IMAP? Just having headers and not clogging your machine with a whole archive?
I dunno. I'm on the fence about mail.app now.
ok, problems from my limited experience with mail.app
1. sometimes mail.app stops fetching email, need manually deletion of the corrupted emails from some where before it can work again
2. if you send a email with a data file attached as *.txt, mail.app will just display the thing, and give you no option to save it as a file. Sometimes have problem with other format of attachment as well
3. still about colors and tags, I know somebody mentioned its doable to color each emails, but how? where is the easy way of doing this other than go through complicated steps? Thunderbird's colors and tags (expandable to unlimited numbers as you want) allow users to organize the emails much easier.
4. rich email editor
5. Thunderbird displays equation or math symbols better.
6. vertical layout
7. TB can be theme-d,
(8. TB3 will be tabbed)
1. sometimes mail.app stops fetching email, need manually deletion of the corrupted emails from some where before it can work again
2. if you send a email with a data file attached as *.txt, mail.app will just display the thing, and give you no option to save it as a file. Sometimes have problem with other format of attachment as well
3. still about colors and tags, I know somebody mentioned its doable to color each emails, but how? where is the easy way of doing this other than go through complicated steps? Thunderbird's colors and tags (expandable to unlimited numbers as you want) allow users to organize the emails much easier.
4. rich email editor
5. Thunderbird displays equation or math symbols better.
6. vertical layout
7. TB can be theme-d,
(8. TB3 will be tabbed)
Mail doesn't play nice with my IMAP server. It didn't play completely nice with the Tiger version, but the Leopard version plays even worse.
1) It doesn't always fetch new messages off the server.
2) Sometimes it fetches the same messages twice.
3) Sometimes it won't connect when sending messages and sends them to "drafts" by default. I have to retry sending manually several times.
4) The auto delete features in the IMAP trash and sent folders aren't always recognized. I have to empty those folders myself many times.
5) I no longer get a new mail sound when new mail arrives.
6) Sometimes it disconnects from the server for no reason and won't reconnect until I quit and relaunch.
Those are the main quirks. I have no such issues with Thunderbird. If 10.5.2 fixes them, I'll happily go back to Mail.
1) It doesn't always fetch new messages off the server.
2) Sometimes it fetches the same messages twice.
3) Sometimes it won't connect when sending messages and sends them to "drafts" by default. I have to retry sending manually several times.
4) The auto delete features in the IMAP trash and sent folders aren't always recognized. I have to empty those folders myself many times.
5) I no longer get a new mail sound when new mail arrives.
6) Sometimes it disconnects from the server for no reason and won't reconnect until I quit and relaunch.
Those are the main quirks. I have no such issues with Thunderbird. If 10.5.2 fixes them, I'll happily go back to Mail.
I use thunderbird on windows, mail.app on osx. i like both. mail seems a little better for me, probably just the gui
Huh. Never seen this happen, and I've re/installed Leopard on a few machines now with no troubles accidentally deleting message.
Odd. Never had this problem.
Come to think of it, I've never had a text attachment, so I've never seen this. I'll mess with this when I get home and see what happens.
Through message rules.
True, but I've not missed that.
Another something I've never needed up to now, so I have no experience with this.
True.
Never been a fan of this stuff, really. I like the look of native Leopard apps personally.
Wow. Again, I've never experienced anything like this. I hope no one thinks I am trying to be superior here, as I am interested in what troubles people are having with the program, but I just really haven't had these issues crop up. Of course, now I'm knocking on wood...
I'm the first to admit that our IMAP server may be old and anitquated. Even Entourage has some trouble with it. However, Thunderbird handles it like a champ. Always has.
this is not quite true.
It actually depends on the IMAP server. Every IMAP I have set up in Mail just worked the first time. There are a few settings you can override with other choices if the defaults don't work, but it's hardly fair to refer to it as "setting it up" as if there are some arcane switches to be thrown etc.
SMTP/IMAP problems are on the server
Almost all of the "smtp problems" and the "IMAP problems" mentioned here are nothing to do with Mail being a good or bad client. They are way more likely to be problems with the servers implementation of the same protocols.
Most of the smtp problems I have personally seen are to do with SSL and the fact that Microsoft products use a completely "broken" non-standard implementation of it. As a result, a great deal of servers in corporations are set up for the "broken" Microsoft SSL. The same sort of thing goes for a whole bunch of mail server related issues.
It's impossible to diagnose all the things mentioned in the thread, but I would bet money that if you looked into them the failures would all be related to poorly implemented protocols and ports on the server end more than they are on the client, regardless of whether it's Mail or Thunderbird.
Mail uses a completely standard IMAP implementation as far as I am aware and I have never seen any problems with it (at least since some of the earlier Tiger based versions.) It's an excellent, stable, non-nonsense Mail client IMO.
If you want to know the real criteria to determine if you should use Thunderbird or Mail, it comes down to attitude. If you are a "cranky old bastard" or a FSS advocate (or both), if you have a T-Shirt with a FireFox logo on it, if you love the idea of tinkering with hundreds of settings, and if the very thought of even receiving HTML mail makes you "rage out," ... then use Thunderbird.
If not, use Mail.
I think you are all wrong.
Almost all of the "smtp problems" and the "IMAP problems" mentioned here are nothing to do with Mail being a good or bad client. They are way more likely to be problems with the servers implementation of the same protocols.
Most of the smtp problems I have personally seen are to do with SSL and the fact that Microsoft products use a completely "broken" non-standard implementation of it. As a result, a great deal of servers in corporations are set up for the "broken" Microsoft SSL. The same sort of thing goes for a whole bunch of mail server related issues.
It's impossible to diagnose all the things mentioned in the thread, but I would bet money that if you looked into them the failures would all be related to poorly implemented protocols and ports on the server end more than they are on the client, regardless of whether it's Mail or Thunderbird.
Mail uses a completely standard IMAP implementation as far as I am aware and I have never seen any problems with it (at least since some of the earlier Tiger based versions.) It's an excellent, stable, non-nonsense Mail client IMO.
If you want to know the real criteria to determine if you should use Thunderbird or Mail, it comes down to attitude. If you are a "cranky old bastard" or a FSS advocate (or both), if you have a T-Shirt with a FireFox logo on it, if you love the idea of tinkering with hundreds of settings, and if the very thought of even receiving HTML mail makes you "rage out," ... then use Thunderbird.
If not, use Mail.
I think you are all wrong.
Almost all of the "smtp problems" and the "IMAP problems" mentioned here are nothing to do with Mail being a good or bad client. They are way more likely to be problems with the servers implementation of the same protocols.
Most of the smtp problems I have personally seen are to do with SSL and the fact that Microsoft products use a completely "broken" non-standard implementation of it. As a result, a great deal of servers in corporations are set up for the "broken" Microsoft SSL. The same sort of thing goes for a whole bunch of mail server related issues.
It's impossible to diagnose all the things mentioned in the thread, but I would bet money that if you looked into them the failures would all be related to poorly implemented protocols and ports on the server end more than they are on the client, regardless of whether it's Mail or Thunderbird.
Mail uses a completely standard IMAP implementation as far as I am aware and I have never seen any problems with it (at least since some of the earlier Tiger based versions.) It's an excellent, stable, non-nonsense Mail client IMO.
If you want to know the real criteria to determine if you should use Thunderbird or Mail, it comes down to attitude. If you are a "cranky old bastard" or a FSS advocate (or both), if you have a T-Shirt with a FireFox logo on it, if you love the idea of tinkering with hundreds of settings, and if the very thought of even receiving HTML mail makes you "rage out," ... then use Thunderbird.
If not, use Mail.
the thing is,,,, with all kinds of reasoning, its Thunderbird, who "JUST WORKs".
It is attitude. I bet 80% of mail.app users are apple fans or default goers. Those who claims anything made by apple is better. No exception, no explanation, no reason needed.
the thing is,,,, with all kinds of reasoning, its Thunderbird, who "JUST WORKs".
It is attitude. I bet 80% of mail.app users are apple fans or default goers. Those who claims anything made by apple is better. No exception, no explanation, no reason needed.
Wow. Nice generalization. No, not an Apple fan or default user here, per se. I just like how Mail.app works for me. Apple isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
I would bet money that if you looked into them the failures would all be related to poorly implemented protocols and ports on the server end more than they are on the client, regardless of whether it's Mail or Thunderbird.
[...]
If you want to know the real criteria to determine if you should use Thunderbird or Mail, it comes down to attitude. If you are a "cranky old bastard" or a FSS advocate (or both), if you have a T-Shirt with a FireFox logo on it, if you love the idea of tinkering with hundreds of settings, and if the very thought of even receiving HTML mail makes you "rage out," ... then use Thunderbird.
If not, use Mail.
ok, your argument almost won me over, as you're talking about protocols i would have no idea about.
Except ... why are people complaining or asking help about IMAP and Mail.app, saying they have no such problems with Thunderbird? If these server protocols and ports are so sloppily set up, why does TB get it right without any settings tweaks beyond what you need to do for any new account setup?
Anyway. I just set up TB and deleted my account in Mail.app. My experience with Mac Mail lasted about 23 hours.
Thunderbird may be more tolerant of sloppy IMAP setups, like Internet Explorer is more tolerant of sloppy HTML coding.
wow, so? if it can tolerate sloppy IMAP server w/o side effect, whats bad about it?
IE being bad is because of its lack of standard support and security problem, not because it supports something.
This type of attack without substance is kinda pointless.
You should probably relax a little. I think you are taking this way too personally. My response wasn't supposed to be an "attack" on anything or anyone. I was just offering a possible explanation. I don't know if it's true or not, and I don't really care. I like Mail.app. You like Thunderbird. Big deal.
sure no big deal, but would you be offended if i state: most people use mail.app just because its default in system, much like window live mail in windows?