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soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
I run a MP mid2010 upgraded to 3.46Ghz12core.
The main software I use (ProTools HDX) claims their latest version will run on an MP 2012 OSX10.13+, but not an MPmid2010.
I just tried OSX10.13 on my 2010 and while the operating system works the driver for my HDX isn't recognised.
SO there must be a difference in either the Backplane Board or the CPU Tray, or both that prevents it from working.
Can anyone tell me, Is it the Backplane Board or is it the CPU Tray, or both that is different?
 

DPUser

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2012
986
298
Rancho Bohemia, California
I am unaware of any difference between 2010 and 2012 Mac Pros other than date of manufacture.

What are the differences between the "Mid-2012" Mac Pro models and the "Mid-2010" Mac Pro models that they replaced? Are there any differences? How can these lines be differentiated from one another?

In as few words as possible, the differences between the "Mid-2012" Mac Pro models -- the Mac Pro "Quad Core" 3.2, "Six Core" 3.33, "Twelve Core" 2.4, "Twelve Core" 2.66, and "Twelve Core" 3.06 -- and the "Mid-2010" models replaced -- the Mac Pro "Quad Core" 2.8, "Quad Core" 3.2, "Six Core" 3.33, "Eight Core" 2.4, "Twelve Core" 2.66, and "Twelve Core" 2.93 -- amount to little more than updated processors, double the standard memory, and pricing changes.

More bluntly, Andy Hertzfeld -- who was a member of the original Mac development team -- said:

The specs for the "new" [Mid-2012] Mac Pro had hardly changed, except for a tiny, inconsequential processor clock bump. Still no Thunderbolt, still no USB 3.0, no SATA III or RAM speed improvements - it seems like it's stuck in time in 2010. The only thing that's still high-end about it is the bloated price.
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Do you have a true 2010? Or is your Mac a 2009 with upgraded firmware?
 
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flygbuss

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2018
727
1,262
Stockholm, Sweden
I run a MP mid2010 upgraded to 3.46Ghz12core.
The main software I use (ProTools HDX) claims their latest version will run on an MP 2012 OSX10.13+, but not an MPmid2010.
I just tried OSX10.13 on my 2010 and while the operating system works the driver for my HDX isn't recognised.
SO there must be a difference in either the Backplane Board or the CPU Tray, or both that prevents it from working.
Can anyone tell me, Is it the Backplane Board or is it the CPU Tray, or both that is different?

Where did you get this info?
The latest Pro Tools Ultimate 2019.12
runs just fine even on a 4,1 from 2009.



Edit: Just saw the Info about the 5,1, although it even doesn’t mention the 3,46 CPU. I have several 5,1 and they all run PT Ultimate with HDX or HD Native cards and macOS 10.13.6
 

soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
Edit: Just saw the Info about the 5,1, although it even doesn’t mention the 3,46 CPU. I have several 5,1 and they all run PT Ultimate with HDX or HD Native cards and macOS 10.13.6

thanks for your replys,
Ok so are your 5,1 2012 or 2010?

Protools works fine but the HDX cards are not seen.
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
thanks for your replys,
Ok so are your 5,1 2012 or 2010?

Protools works fine but the HDX cards are not seen.

From a hardware or software standpoint , there should be no difference between a 2010 and 2012 - they both have identical model identifiers ( Mac Pro 5,1 ) and can up upgraded to the same boot ROM versions ( this firmware is automatically upgraded by the macOS installers ) .
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,167
13,355
I run a MP mid2010 upgraded to 3.46Ghz12core.
The main software I use (ProTools HDX) claims their latest version will run on an MP 2012 OSX10.13+, but not an MPmid2010.
I just tried OSX10.13 on my 2010 and while the operating system works the driver for my HDX isn't recognised.
SO there must be a difference in either the Backplane Board or the CPU Tray, or both that prevents it from working.
Can anyone tell me, Is it the Backplane Board or is it the CPU Tray, or both that is different?
No hardware difference at all, just different serial and MLB numbers. Serial number of 2012 models have a digit more than 2010 ones and are interpreted differently, but the hardware is exactly the same.
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The 5,1 are either 2010 or 2009 (4,1 with FW upgrade).

This is incorrect, flashing a MP5,1 firmware don’t make 2009 into a 2010/2012.
2009 MacPros have several differences: Xeons, AirPort, SMC for all versions is different and the dual CPU sockets are different too.

If you didn’t upgrade the 2009 CPUs, the differences are even bigger, you can’t run Docker or anything that dependes on Apple Hypervisor with Nehalem Xeons. After 10.14.3, you have audio playback problems with the dual CPU Nehalems too.
 
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flygbuss

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2018
727
1,262
Stockholm, Sweden
No hardware difference at all, just different serial and MLB numbers. Serial number one of 2012 models have a digit more than 2010 ones and are interpreted differently, but the hardware is exactly the same.
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This is incorrect, flashing a MP5,1 firmware don’t make 2009 into a 2010/2012.
2009 MacPros have several differences: Xeons, AirPort, SMC for all versions is different and the dual CPU sockets are different too.

If you didn’t upgrade the 2009 CPUs, the differences are even bigger, you can’t run Docker or anything that dependes on Apple Hypervisor with Nehalem Xeons. After 10.14.3, you have audio playback problems with the dual CPU Nehalems too.

I know and never intended to claim such thing. I only wanted to add that even the 4,1 runs the latest Pro Tools version + Card.

I’m aware of the Xeon issues, though a CPU upgrade to one of the 5,1 CPUs (delidded if dual tray) solves at least the audio stuttering in 10.14.4..
 

soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
This might be a stupid thing to ask, but the HDX card needs additional power like newer GPUs. Did you connect the provided cable?

Yes, that is a good question to ask as it is such a simple mistake to make.
Just so you know, I'm not a novice at this, I have built literally hundreds of ProTools TDM HD and HDX systems & I've been using ProTools since 1993.
The HDX cards I've had since 2013.
AVID informed me that my machine wouldn't play well with OSX10.13 & HDX driver,
and so far they're right.
So not getting any support from AVID as it's not in their compatibility hardware list.

I believe you that you have machines working with 10.13 & PT2019.12.
My MP has several systems and the HDXcard is recognised on all OSX10.12 but not higher than.
The Cards are not an issue, tested and work well.

I've seen this before, where a non-recommended machine works fine while other identical models don't.

The thing is I've tried it several times either;
upgrading from 10.12
or full OSX and PT fresh rebuilds.
Always with the same result, PT Ultimate works fine but the HDX driver just doesn't want to load.

Unless you have another idea or an inkling of something I might have missed.
I'm stuck here.
 

flygbuss

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2018
727
1,262
Stockholm, Sweden
Yes, that is a good question to ask as it is such a simple mistake to make.
Just so you know, I'm not a novice at this, I have built literally hundreds of ProTools TDM HD and HDX systems & I've been using ProTools since 1993.
The HDX cards I've had since 2013.
AVID informed me that my machine wouldn't play well with OSX10.13 & HDX driver,
and so far they're right.
So not getting any support from AVID as it's not in their compatibility hardware list.

I believe you that you have machines working with 10.13 & PT2019.12.
My MP has several systems and the HDXcard is recognised on all OSX10.12 but not higher than.
The Cards are not an issue, tested and work well.

I've seen this before, where a non-recommended machine works fine while other identical models don't.

The thing is I've tried it several times either;
upgrading from 10.12
or full OSX and PT fresh rebuilds.
Always with the same result, PT Ultimate works fine but the HDX driver just doesn't want to load.

Unless you have another idea or an inkling of something I might have missed.
I'm stuck here.

Did you try 10.14? Is PT2019.12 the only version you've tried? I'm still on 2019.10 since the Catalina support excludes video support as of yet. So I can't say much about 2019.12..
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Just found this:

 
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soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
Did you try 10.14? Is PT2019.12 the only version you've tried? I'm still on 2019.10 since the Catalina support excludes video support as of yet. So I can't say much about 2019.12..

Yes, I did try 10.14 with no luck, it had buggy OSX/MP issues that prompted me to just stop as 10.13 worked much easier.

I have been only using and trying 2019.10 for the same reasons, I need video, so I haven't bothered with 2019.12.
I'm trying to future proof as my Avid renewal is in Feb if this box doesn't let PT HDX driver work with 10.13+ then I need to either replace a component (tray or backplane board) or let the avid support lapse.

I have been trying since 10.13 came out and so the PTversion was pre-ultimate back then and with never any results
 

flygbuss

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2018
727
1,262
Stockholm, Sweden
Yes, I did try 10.14 with no luck, it had buggy OSX/MP issues that prompted me to just stop as 10.13 worked much easier.

I have been only using and trying 2019.10 for the same reasons, I need video, so I haven't bothered with 2019.12.
I'm trying to future proof as my Avid renewal is in Feb if this box doesn't let PT HDX driver work with 10.13+ then I need to either replace a component (tray or backplane board) or let the avid support lapse.

I have been trying since 10.13 came out and so the PTversion was pre-ultimate back then and with never any results

Have a look at the links I posted. I also read that 2019.5 which I had previously installed provides a firmware upgrade for HDX cards. I assume this upgrade is also included in later versions, but in case it's not it might be worth trying to install 2019.5.

I might have to be in the studio during the holidays, I will check if I can figure something out then.

To be honest, replacing parts most likely won't fix the issue since there is no difference in build between the 2010 and 2012 Mac Pro.
 
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soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
yea you cant continue to use the cards without the firmware upgrade.
thanks for your keen assistance.
Will keep trying,
 

MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
691
Japan
Soundworthy

My I suggest that that do a new, clean, full install of Mojave ( or your favorite Mac OS ) on a separate SSD to test everything concerning the Pro Tools problem . . yeah . . I know it's a hassle. ? but has often fixed problems for me.

Making a SIGNATURE would help us to help you. Mine is at the bottom of this post as an example.
macrumors member SIGNATURE.png
 

soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
meant to say I've previously read the links, and usually, I am on top of any developments with PT.
the only reason I'm a newbie here in macrumours is I've never needed any mac/Protools assistance ever in the past 27 years, I've always worked it out for myself.
but this has stumped me.
so thanks again for your interest I appreciate it.
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Soundworthy

My I suggest that that do a new, clean, full install of Mojave ( or your favorite Mac OS ) on a separate SSD to test everything concerning the Pro Tools problem . . yeah . . I know it's a hassle. ? but has often fixed problems for me.

Making a SIGNATURE would help us to help you. Mine is at the bottom of this post as an example. View attachment 884409
Hi, thanks, I've updated my signature.
As previously mentioned I have preformed that multiple times,
The thing is I've tried it several times either;
upgrading from 10.12
or full OSX and PT fresh rebuilds.
Always with the same result, PT Ultimate works fine but the HDX driver just doesn't want to load.
 
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soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
the only step I haven't taken is to pull the machine completely apart, clean it, reassemble components one at a time, methodically rebuilding and testing.
so going offline to do just that.
Cheers, I'll let you know how it goes.
 

flygbuss

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2018
727
1,262
Stockholm, Sweden
Just saw that you have the Magma EB7. Do you have the HDX cards in the chassis? If so, did you try to seat just one HDX card in any of the PCIe slots of the MP?
 

soundworthy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 22, 2019
9
1
ok, I got it going.
as mentioned, neither a fresh install of 10.13 or an upgrade from 10.12 was working with Protools HD Driver.
and I upgraded from 2 different systems to try that.

However, I did a fresh install of 10.12 and installed Protools & HD driver, made sure it worked,
then upgraded to 10.13 and behold the HDX driver is seen.
from either when the cards are inside the MP or the Magma EB7 Expansion chassis.

no idea why it didn't work on my current working systems, or a brand new install fro that matter, but there it is,

Oh, I forgot to mention, I sacrificed a goat in front of the MP, maybe that did it.

thanks all
 
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