MP 1,1-5,1 MP5,1 racing sim in bootcamp Q

[hornedrum]

Hi folks,

I have done some extensive reading here, but I want to check first, as this is a complex problem.

MP 5,1 3.33 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Curent OS: 10.13.6

Basically I am trying to work out if it's worth using this computer to run a car racing sim (such as iracing) on Windows via bootcamp.
Currently I have the stock ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB GPU in here running an Apple 30" Cinema Display.

First question, is it worth the hassle upgrading, would the performance of this old machine work with new racing sims like F1 2021/iRacing etc.... or should I just build a dedicated gaming PC? (I am utterly naive to all things PC/Windows)

If I upgraded the GPU to say, AMD Radeon RX 580 8 GB flashed for the Mac boot screen, could I load Windows via bootcamp and use this same GPU for gaming?

I have an NVME boot drive in PCI slot 3 and the GPU in slot 4, all 4 SATA drive slots occupied, so plenty room to install Windows on.
I run ProTools on this 9 year old workhorse and it's flawless, just haven't tinkered with her since the NVME drive upgrade years ago, and want the least amount of hassle.

Thanks for any help in advance..

Cheers!

 

[RotarySam]

I can help with some things. I used my Mac Pro 5,1 for racing sims prior to upgrading to a dedicated gaming PC. Mine is 3.46 GHz with 32GB RAM, but I had a Mac flashed 1080Ti in there and a 2560 x 1600 monitor. I played iRacing, Assetto Corsa, RF2, F1 games, DIRT, etc. All were playable, but it struggled a lot when I went to VR. I can't recall frame rates sorry.

Assetto Corsa Competizione probably isn't going to work very well because it requires a lot from the computer. The last I heard, iRacing was very single core dependant so you'd have to keep your settings down with that game as well. The good part about racing sims though is that the driving experience is what you're after and you can still have fun even with low settings.

I ordered the RX 580 for the Mac and moved the 1080Ti to a new gaming PC I built in 2019, and there were massive improvements to games with 1080Ti in the new machine. I still dual boot the Mac (Monterey & Win11 via OpenCore) with the RX 580 for a few non racing games. It's a capable machine for occasional gaming if you don't push the graphic settings too much. On a side note, Windows Updates always seemed to mess things up on the Mac because of all the hardware I had plugged in for racing. I seemed like I was constantly fighting it.

In the end, my advice would be to build or buy a gaming PC because you'll end up going down that route eventually. I don't think your current graphics card could handle much, and if you're happy with your Mac and don't plan on upgrading your hardware to put the latest OS on, spend the money on dedicated gaming hardware. And as another point of reference, I've also got an Alienware laptop with the RTX3060 gpu, and it has much better gaming performance than the Mac Pro with RX 580. I hope I could help. If you have any other questions, just ask. I know this is a very specific use case and not many people have first hand experience.

Sam

 

[hornedrum]

Thanks Sam, I really appreciate such a detailed response.

I managed to get Windows installed on another drive, so was testing it out yesterday.
GRID 2 played averagely, but F1 2021 failed to load up, I am guessing because of my inadequate GPU. Am I right in assuming that? No warnings in the steam engine, just tried and failed instantly.

I knew my stock 5870 GPU was unusable, but wanted to make sure I could get other things working before spending lots of money on a new GPU at inflated prices.
So, I can still hold down alt key on boot up and jump between High Sierra and Windows 10.
I also managed to get my boot rom to 144.0.0.0.

Am I right in thinking I can buy just about any AMD GPU now, install opencore and keep my boot screen?
Was your RX580 unflashed, but using opencore you can see the boot screen and use alt on boot up to choose between OSs?
Someone mentioned I could install bootcamp drivers on the windows disk so that I could select my Mac startup disk inside windows. Maybe that would negate the need for a boot screen altogether.


Sorry, I am almost thinking out loud here, but there are so many options and catch 22s that I guess that’s my best shot, and listen to your response, if you don’t mind and have the time/inclination.


Am thinking if I get the RX5600 it should help the fact the CPUs are a little underpowered.
I probably won’t be playing anything other than sim racing games, and definitely not VR.
Unless you think the RX580 is adequate?


Thanks again,

HD.

 

[StuAff]

On my system (spec practically identical to @RotarySam, GPU is an RX580 flashed by MVC Europe), non-VR gaming performance is fine, though at the risk of stating the obvious, the newer and/or more demanding the game is, the lower you'll have to turn the settings down, and if you want to go the other way, buy new. Got quite a few racing sims- Project Cars 2 the go-to at the moment, but also Dirt 2, AC, etc…and it wasn't hard to make them more than playable. Before I got the 580 flashed (hadn't tried OpenCore by the time I did), I had an ancient GT120 in for boot screen only. If you go down the OpenCore route, you do not need a GPU with Mac EFI for boot screen- the OpenCore boot picker will kick in and work (the standard boot picker will only work with flashed/Apple cards). However, the OC boot screen will not work with Legacy Windows installs, which is the default for 5,1s using the Boot Camp Assistant, only UEFI Windows. Winclone might be able to convert a legacy install, if not you'd need to reinstall from scratch. If/when you set up a Windows install USB, there will be an 'EFI Boot' partition on it, you'd need to use that to get a UEFI install. Apple's Boot Camp driver package will install a startup disk control in Windows so you can reboot into Mac from there, as you've read. The AMD drivers included with that package will work with the GPU, but you can use the regular Adrenelin driver packages from AMD as well.

A word of warning about the newer AMD cards- they will only work with OC and with newer macOS versions which include support for them, there is no way to install drivers. 5600XT/5700XT will only work with Catalina or later. Either that, or use the Mac only as a Windows box…

 

[RotarySam]

The minimum system requirements for F1 2021 say AMD R9 280, and your GPU is below that. I bought an unflashed Sapphire PULSE RX 580 to do the Mojave upgrade a while back. It doesn't have a boot screen. In Mojave, I always used Paragon Software NTFS for Mac where you can select the Windows drive and reboot into Windows. Once in Windows, you can choose to boot back to MacOS from the Bootcamp menu. There were probably other ways to accomplish this, but I already had that software.

I'm pretty new to OpenCore, but it did enable a boot selection screen where you can select your Windows drive. It's a lot easier once installed. I just followed the guide on here, and it worked the first time. Specific questions about that are probably best answered by someone else, but I think you are correct.

You'd probably be better off buying a gaming computer with the price of GPUs these days. I only paid $219 for the RX 580 brand new, and I think it's been worth that to keep this computer running. There's no way I'd pay today's price.

On another note, I went back and checked minimum requirements for the F1 games, and it looks like you can run F1 2017 on your current GPU, and it's only $10.

 

[StuAff]

GPU prices are still nuts, indeed. I paid £280 or so for my Aorus RX580 back in 2017, when that crypto boom was cooling off, and I could still make my money back or make a small profit (OK, minus the flashing fee). Barking. Marek at MVC Europe is charging £519 for a flashed card. 5600XT are going for over £400 on eBay.....

 

[hornedrum]

"However, the OC boot screen will not work with Legacy Windows installs, which is the default for 5,1s using the Boot Camp Assistant"

Thanks for the info Stu. What about if I installed legacy windows without bootcamp? Still the same outcome?
The problem with installing uefi Windows is you end up with Microsoft certificates on your boot rom, which is never a positive imho. I think OC guards against that though.

 

[hornedrum]

@ Sam, thanks!

Good to hear opencore has a boot selection screen for MacOS and Windows, phew.
I hear you on the GPU prices, it's even difficult to find an RX580 new at any price.
MVC are £500 (+you have to add the UK Vat!!!) for it flashed, they say they are new cards, whereas the RX5600 is second hand for £649, eye watering.
This is the top of the market for sure though, throwing that kind of money at a 10 year old machine just seems counter intuitive. £250 would have been fine.

Great minds Sam, I was checking out F1 2017 too, maybe I'll play that for a few months and see how I go.

I need to have a long hard think about all of this, thank you all for your input, at least I can make an educated decision now though.... all your input was gratefully received.

 

[StuAff]

"However, the OC boot screen will not work with Legacy Windows installs, which is the default for 5,1s using the Boot Camp Assistant"

Thanks for the info Stu. What about if I installed legacy windows without bootcamp? Still the same outcome?
The problem with installing uefi Windows is you end up with Microsoft certificates on your boot rom, which is never a positive imho. I think OC guards against that though.

If you use Boot Camp Assistant, it won't let you install Windows 10, at least not without hacks to the preference files that really aren't worth the time and bother. You can download the driver package (5.1.5621) separately. Just have your preferred install drive or partition ready, let the Windows installer format it. OC boot screen won't see a Legacy Windows partition at all. And yes, OC protects the boot ROM.

 

[hornedrum]

Sorry, maybe I should have phrased that better...
I already have Windows 10 installed on a separate sata drive in my 5,1, I didn't use bootcamp, used this method:

Bare Metal Windows on cMP

PART 1 of 3 This is a guide to installing Windows 10 on Classic Mac Pros without the Boot Camp Assistant. This is one of many ways to implement such a "Bare Metal" setup but is a straightforward method. This guide is for installing Legacy Windows, as opposed to UEFI Windows, but can also be...

forums.macrumors.com

Can I install the driver package you mention on top of the Windows already installed do you think?
Cheers