MS or Lenovo

Discussion in 'Alternatives to Mac Hardware' started by hajime, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. hajime macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #1
    Hello, I was waiting for the X1Extreme but the battery life is below 8 hours. It is also a bit heavy. The battery life of X1C6 and X1 Yoga are below 8 and FHD's real estate is too small for me. Then, after seeing the high res 13.5" screen and 10+ hours battery life of the Surface Book 2, I aimed towards it. Then, I read that MS does not repair the surface line laptops. Instead they give refurbished replacement which I don't like. What suggestion do you have?
     
  2. SDColorado, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018

    SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #2
    I would suggest you wait until after the Microsoft October 2nd event to start with. See what new may be announced.

    I am not sure about the Microsoft refurbished deal for warranty replacement. I own a 2017 Surface Pro and I only had to exchange due to something stupid I did in the first 10 days of ownership. They just swapped it out in store and didn't even count it as one of my two accidental damage replacements. But that may vary depending on whether or not you have a store nearby and how new/old the device is.

    I get about 8 hours of battery life with the X1 Extreme, which is about on par with what I got with the 2018 MPB I had. The Surface Book 2 gets significantly better battery life due to its two battery format.

    Your post is a bit all over the place with the Yoga's, but if I am gathering from the "real estate too small" comments, you are looking at the 15" Surface Book 2? If so that is heavier, not lighter than the X1 Extreme (4.06lbs/1.8g X1E vs 4.20/1.9g Surface Book 2. So if you find the X1E slightly too heavy, it would seem a 13.5" model and the less real estate is maybe your best bet? But if you don't mind the smaller 13.5" screen, you can save about .5 lbs
     
  3. hajime thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #3

    Yes, I will wait until the Oct 2 event and then decide which one to buy and order immediately. The battery of my MBP 2010 17" is dying. It can' tlast for more than half an hour without an AC adapter. Together with the 3kg weight (laptop alone), it is time to buy a new computer.

    I tried both the 13.5" and 15" in a store today and two other separate days. The 15" SB2 is too heavy for me as I also need to carry other stuffs. The 13.5" is not very light but I can handle it given that it has a high screen resolutions. So, the situation is:

    1. MBP 2018: Can't stand the butterfly keyboard and it has some issues running Linux. Crossed out from the list. The only case I will buy it is to just for temporary use. As soon as a new verison with a better keyboard comes out, trade in immediately.

    2. X1C6 and X1 Yoga: Light weight but the FHD resolution does not provide enough real estate for me. Take 2-3 weeks for delivery. The resolutions of WQHD may be sufficient but the letters may be too small. Without seeing it in person, cannot decide.

    3. T480s: looks OK

    4. SB2: Good screen resolutions and 10+ battery life. Even at 13.5", I can see words clearly and "seemingly" offers good real estate. Concern about MS giving me refurbrished one if something goes wrong with my device. AC adapter seems to be heavy but probably I don't need to carry it every day due to good battery life. 15" model is heavy for me so I don't consider it.

    5. X1 Extreme: Need more user data to know the lengh of battery life for 4K screen. With a 4K screen, it is 1.8kg. If the battery life is not long, I will need to carry an additional AC adapter to make things heavier.


    Ideally, I want to try out X1C6, X1 Yoga, T480S and X1 Extreme before making a purchase decision. However, I don't think Lenovo allows so many refunds.
     
  4. SDColorado, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018

    SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    #4
    Like you I hate the butterfly keyboard on the MBP. I had a 2016, which I gave to my wife since she uses an external keyboard. Tried a few 2018’s, hoping the keyboard improvement would be enough. It isn’t. I also had a few other issues/problems with the 2018 MBP and returned the final one for an X1 Extreme.

    I don’t know enough about the Surface Book power supply, but the Surface Pro one is very small and light.

    X1 Extreme power supply is a little bigger than a deck of cards and light with the added advantage of the quick charge. They advertise 0-80% in 60 minutes. In my test I achieved 84%. That was with the lid closed.

    X1 Extreme power supply is lighter than the MBP and apparently it can also be charged via Thunderbolt 3 port, albeit slower.

    [​IMG]

    I am not sure how many refunds Lenovo allows, you could ask them? Best Buy here carries the Yoga X1. Nowhere near you carry it?

    I did way to many exchanges with Microsoft trying to dial in the Surface Pro. Mainly, to their credit In some way I suppose, because they were trying to undersell me rather than oversell me and I keep moving up in specs until I was happy. But not once did they complain about the multiple exchanges. Very friendly and helpful throughout.
     
  5. hajime, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018

    hajime thread starter macrumors 603

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    #5
    Thanks for the nice photo. Are you able to measure the weight of the AC adapter? I am now in Canada. Best Buy here does not sell Yoga X1, X1C6, T480s. I have to order online. There are two MS store in my office. The manager of the one I usually visit is not very nice. One time his staff wanted to let me watch 4K Youtube video on the 15" Razer Blade but the manager did not allow that. He also did not want to show me the power adapter of the laptop. I talked with several people. Most of the staff in that store have no idea what they were talking about. So, I am concerned that if I buy from them, even there is a physical store, they may be unhelpful. Haven't checked the farther, MS store.
     
  6. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    #6

    About 327g/11.55 oz for the power supply and the cord from the power supply to the computer, which as far as I know you cannot remove. Though I haven’t tried to really pull on it.

    About 387g/13.6 oz including the above and the replaceable cord that goes from power supply to outlet.

    Dimensions at its longest are 4.8” /122mm, which includes short wings, probably for wrapping the cord? 2.8”/ 71mm wide, 1.75”/44mm thick.

    The manager at the store near you sounds like a d——, which is too bad. I go in and set up a consult appointment to check something out and they will set multiple monitors, video, photo editing, whatever.
     
  7. SteveJUAE macrumors 68030

    SteveJUAE

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    Land of Smiles
    #7
    OP

    Not sure why you dislike refurb on MS it can have it's advantages:

    My youngest has my almost 3 years old SP4 that was replaced FOC due to a known graphics error, The replacement came back immaculate and with a brand new battery

    As for charger the SB2 is not too bad and you could always see if the GO charger suits your mobile needs or alternatives come 2 October :)
     
  8. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    Nov 6, 2011
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    #8
    I have heard a couple of tales of folks getting a well used refurbished, but they seem to be the exception to the rule and MS has apparently taken them back and sent out a more suitable replacement when it happens. One person even saying that they got a $150 credit to boot when they showed MS the condition of the refurb they received along with an appology that it should not have happened.

    I have a car charger that I use for my Surface Pro that plugs into the 12v, will that also work with the Surface Book 2?
     
  9. hajime thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #9
    Thanks. Which has an AC adapter of 327g and which has one of 387g?
     
  10. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    #10
    Those are the weights for the X1 Extreme power supply, both without the removable cord that goes from the PS to the outlet and with the cord.

    Did you want the measurements for the Surface Pro PS as well? I have no idea how it compares to the Surface Book 2
     
  11. hajime, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018

    hajime thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #11
    Thanks. I don't need SP PS measurement. Let's see what they are going to announce on Tuesday. If there is nothing new, I guess:

    Below 1.4kg with 14" screen of resolutions about 2560x1440: X1C6 or T480S
    1.6-1.8kg with higher res display: SB2 13.5", X1E FHD and then X1E4K

    Would have bought the MBP 2018 if it were not the butterfly keyborad.
    Would have decided on the SB2 if it were not MS swapping refurbrished units for broken ones.


    I hope notebookcheck will publish their test results on tuning the CPU performance before Oct 2.
     
  12. SteveJUAE, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018

    SteveJUAE macrumors 68030

    SteveJUAE

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    #12
    Yes there are always + and - stories out there :)

    Not sure why OP thinks other OEM's do not routinely give refurb replacements, it's permissible under consumer law and OEM's that have generous return polices that's how they get rid of used units :rolleyes:

    The GO brick is tiny but should trickle charge better than USB-C port phone chargers :) and it's magnetic for safety

    gobrick.jpg
     
  13. hajime, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018

    hajime thread starter macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #13
    After hearing about MS replacing broken units with a refurbished ones and knowing the bad manager of a nearby MS store, it is kind of a turn off to buy a SB 2. Otherwise, the SB2 is an excellent computer due to its high res screen at relatively light weight. Morevoer, I can use its tablet when standing at bus stops.

    It looks like I have to choose among X1C6, X1E, T480s, X1Y3 or MBP 2018. Any suggestion? Basically, I want a machine that has at least 8 hours of battery life (the longer the better since I don't have to carry an AC adapter) and at light weight (the ligther the better but no more than 1.83kg), similar resolutions to rMBP 15" 2015 (FHD's real estate is too small) and no noisy fan noise.

    I can tell the difference between MBP 13" and 15" (1.4kg vs. 1.83kg) as well as SB2 13.5" and 15" (1.6 vs. 1.9 kg) but any laptop 1.4kg and below is considered to be light enough for me. 1.9kg is too heavy as I also need to carry other stuffs.

    I may need to get a powerful workstation with Nvidia GPU later to do CUDA computations. For the time being, I just need a laptop to replace my dying MBP 2010 17".
     
  14. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

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    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #14
    If it makes any difference, I don't believe you have to deal with the store or the bad manager if you have a warranty issue. I believe you can deal directly with MS on a replacement. I set my Surface Pro up as a business purchase and with that purchased a 4-year warranty, that includes accidental damage, prepaid shipping, advanced exchange or store exchange.

    As far as repair, that may also be done with refurbished parts. Apple has been as guilty of this as others if you watch any of Louis Rossman's videos. Just because they repair your machine, does not guarantee a new part. They will often be refurbished or "re-manufactured" as a local Denver repair tech and former Genious Bar tech stated in an Engadget article.

    I know you only mentioned two brands, 3 including the MBP, but I believe the Hauwaie Matebook X Pro and Dell XPS 13 also get pretty good battery life? I read 1 review that claimed the Hauwaie bested the MBP 13 and XPS 13 by about 2 hours.

    Of course, one thing to keep in mind with any Windows machine is to take advantage of the power slider and put it in the "Best Battery Life" position if long battery life is going to be more important than heavy lifting.

    I am a little surprised that you are so specific on the weight, coming from the MBP 17", which is a heavy beast. I just sold mine but used to carry it in a backpack along with power supply, extension cord, camera bodies, lenses, etc. It was a load, especially on the motorcycle. So anything smaller feels significantly lighter. That would include the likes of the HP Envy 17, Asus Vivo Book Pro 17 and the like :)
     
  15. c0ppo macrumors 65816

    c0ppo

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    Feb 11, 2013
    #15
    Huawei Matebook X Pro for the win, at least considering your wishes. Lightweight, excellent battery, really good keyboard, 3:2 screen...
     
  16. hajime thread starter macrumors 603

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    Jul 23, 2007
    #16
    I asked them what will happen after the one year warranty. They told me that if they have the parts, they will try their best to fix it. Have been on the waiting list for 2 months.
     
  17. zen macrumors 68000

    zen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    #17
    Windows handles scaling differently to macOS, so the 2560 x 1440 screen res on 14" will be fine - it'll be very sharp with properly scaled elements (unless you slide the scaler down to 100%!).
     

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16 September 28, 2018