Multi OS Partitions on SSD & Bad Optical Drive (G4 Cube)

[cosmichobo]

G'day,

I'm about to instal a 120GB SSD in my G4 Cube, and after having an "aha moment", realised I could partition the drive to boot both OS 9, and OS 10.x, so I could relive some Classic Mac memories (aka games)!

My question simply is - what partition size should I use for OS 9?

According to the web, OS 9 needs somewhere between 300MB to 450MB of space to instal. Does this mean I could get away with creating 1 x 1GB partition for OS 9, and then the remaining 119GB for OS X?

Or is there a reason to create a bigger partition for OS 9?

There is no need for the OS 9 native apps to be on the OS 9 partition - correct?

I think the last time I used multiple OS' on 1 machine was System 6 and System 7 on a Mac Classic! And back then, I think I just had to drag the system file in/out of the system folder to bless/unbless the one I did/didn't want to boot from...

Thanks

cosmic

 

[Amethyst1]

My question simply is - what partition size should I use for OS 9?
According to the web, OS 9 needs somewhere between 300MB to 450MB of space to instal. Does this mean I could get away with creating 1 x 1GB partition for OS 9, and then the remaining 119GB for OS X?
Or is there a reason to create a bigger partition for OS 9?

You could do it like that, but as an example, I like to keep my OSes totally separate from each other, including the applications I want to use with the respective version, so I make my individual partitions big enough to hold both the OS and all applications which are specific to that OS version.

There is no need for the OS 9 native apps to be on the OS 9 partition - correct?

Correct, but say you keep them all on the big OS X partition. Now, for some reason, you want to wipe the OS X partition and start over with a clean installation: that means you'll lose all your OS 9-native applications as well.

Maybe three (or more) partitions - one for OS 9, one (or more) for OS X, and a big one for all your applications, separated by 9-native and X-native ones, would be a better approach.

 

[aurora72]

One or two weeks ago I've partitioned my Seagate Momentus 160GB PATA HDD into 3 partitions for my Mac mini G4
100GB => OS 10.5.9 (Sorbet Leopard)
40GB => OS 10.5.8 (Leopard)
12GB => OS 9.2

The reason for reserving an extra partition for Leopard is because it needs to be at hand until I migrate all programs into S.Leopard.
The reason for setting such a high volume for OS 9.2 is to be able to collect all files (mp3, mov, sit, png, jpg, txt) freely in HDD, not run into space problems in the long run.

 

[MysticCow]

My OS 9 partitions run at 20 GB max. I mean, stuff from that era doesn't tend to take up THAT much space. Not even Leopard apps tend to take up a huge amount of space.

If I were going to run it again and using a 120 GB SSD, I'd do it this way:

Part 1: 30 GB for OS 9
Part 2: 80 GB for Leopard
Part 3: 10 GB OS 9 emergency recovery partition
Part 4: 10 GB OS X emergency recovery partition

Part 3 and 4 will require the use of Disk Utility in order to "restore" the install CD to those partitions. This way, if an emergency happens and you need to run First Aid or do an outright reinstall, you don't have to find the installers. You just boot the emergency partition and run with it.

 

[Doq]

Don't do it like me. I have a nine-way boot with 7 operating systems on my Companion.

Depending on what you plan on doing (games), a 1-to-5 ratio will be well-sufficient for you; 20 GB for OS 9 and 100 GB for OS X.

#4 is similar but does include contingency for recovery, but you do not need to allocate 10 GB each for this. The OS 9 installation CD is exactly that-- a CD, and the largest OS X DVDs are of the DL variety, so 10 GB total will be just fine: 1 GB for OS 9's recovery and 9 GB for OS X's recovery.

 

[cosmichobo]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! @Amethyst1 @aurora72 @MysticCow @Doq

I like the idea of having the recovery partitions. My Leopard instal disk can be a bit dodgy sometimes... so will be good not to have to rely on it. As @Doq suggests, I'll drop the partition size for the OS 9 recovery, but otherwise will go with @MysticCow 's idea.

Q - Are the emergency recovery partitions set up differently to a normal partition? I gather on modern Macs, they are a "hidden" partition that you don't see unless you boot into it... but on a Cube, that predates the idea of emergency partitions.. right?

Getting excited now... I've had this Cube for so long, and it's been seriously neglected...

 

[Amethyst1]

Q - Are the emergency recovery partitions set up differently to a normal partition?

Nope. Exactly the same.

 

[cosmichobo]

... ... now if only my Mac Pro 5,1 would recognise its optical drive, I could get the OSes installed on the SSD.

Hopefully just a loose connection... not going to try resolve it now - will wait til the weekend. Failing that - I'll use the Cube's DVD-ROM after I instal the SSD. (Am also going to open the optical drive and clean the roller, and try tighten the drive belt in boiling water.)

From what I've been reading, the biggest question for this comes down to one question:

Tiger or Leopard?

I believe my first foray into OS X was Tiger, on my USB 2 eMac in 2004. I did try instal OS X on my TAM, but that just bricked it. (Thank god for the paperclip trick!) I do recall however being very excited when I upgraded to Leopard, and ran that OS on both the eMac and then G5 PowerMac for quite a while, before moving onto Intel Macs 9 years ago.

I think I'll start with 10.4.6 (found a copy in my box of discs), and if I really don't like it, I'll go to 10.5.8.

 

[Doq]

Unless you have an upgraded Cube-- with aftermarket upgrades, stock won't cut it-- you will have a very bad time with Leopard. Getting it to install in the first place is a (minor) challenge and getting it to be useable is an even harder challenge. You will absolutely want to stick with Tiger if your Cube is stock.

(I will probably be internally screamed at if I don't mention Sorbet Leopard though.)

You can hide the recovery partitions, at least in OS X. If you do a search around, you'll get a lot of answers for using setfile, but I find that to be undesireable-- use fstab with the noauto flag instead: https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-7942

 

[MysticCow]

Are the emergency recovery partitions set up differently to a normal partition? I gather on modern Macs, they are a "hidden" partition that you don't see unless you boot into it... but on a Cube, that predates the idea of emergency partitions.. right?

My recovery partitions for PowerPC are, in fact, actual partitions that can be seen by either 9 or X. Just regular old partitions that I use Disk Utility's restore function to get the full CD/DVD on there. They are never ever ever ever ever EVER touched by me (I seriously don't even open the partition in Finder) unless I need to boot from them to begin a scan or reinstall.

 

[cosmichobo]

@Doq - My Cube has a Sonnet 1.4Ghz upgrade card, max RAM, and 7200rpm hdd (well, soon to be SSD ). It came to me with Leopard installed, so that's all I've used on it to date. Sadly it hasn't been used much - mostly sitting, haunting me.

My initial hopes were to use the Cube as a HTPC, but despite the upgrades it just couldn't handle the task of playing "modern" video files at acceptable frame rates; certainly couldn't handle anything above "SD" format. Good for DVDs of course with MPEG2... but most my content is digital these days. Couldn't handle Plex or Netflix.

I then picked up some HK Sound Sticks for $30, and intend instead to use the Cube to play music, and also as a "live picture frame" on my 17" Studio Display. For those purposes, I'm sure Tiger will do fine... Even for playing some older PPC games, I'm sure Tiger will do; I'll just need to retrain myself, as Leopard was my "go to" OS for Pre Intel.

 

[bobesch]

I would also go for Tiger - Leopard wouldn't be any fun with the Cube's standard configuration.
Tiger has also the option of running the os9-partition within Classic-environment.
I'd use (in fact I do) a partition scheme with 10GB(os9); 40-60GB(Tiger); rest (Data, e.g. downloads, apps, VirtualMachines, media etc.).
Having both an os9 and Tiger "recovery" is a great idea indeed ???, but I'd rather use a 240GB SSD for that purpose, 'cause have the bad habit to clutter up drive-space ...
Bear in mind, that later on changing the partition sceme with os9-drivers in place does mean that you have to erase the whole drive in that process.

 

[cosmichobo]

At this point in time at least, if I needed to copy over the entire SSD, and repartition it, I have enough space on the drives in my MacPro / Back Up Sled, so no dramas if it takes a few goes to get the right balance / setup.

I have partitioned the drive:
30GB OS 9
1GB OS 9 Recovery
79GB OS X
10 GB OS X Recovery

If storage does get tight on any particular volume, I'll always have the capacity to use some space from another partition, or another drive in the network to offload files, and then bring them back when needed. Right now it's accessible via Ethernet, but the Cube does have an Airport Card if I move it to a better location - which I think I may need to do; it's currently sitting on a bookshelf in the foyer of my house; great for the "picture frame" or music functions, but not prime location for playing games on, which has suddenly become my added intention

 

[bobesch]

Right now it's accessible via Ethernet, but the Cube does have an Airport Card if I move it to a better location - which I think I may need to do ...

The Airport Card is pretty outdated. Better use a WLAN-to-Ethernet-Bridge (like a 14$ Vonets). No driver needed. Works on both os9 and OSX without any special drivers.

 

[cosmichobo]

The Airport Card is pretty outdated. Better use a WLAN-to-Ethernet-Bridge (like a 14$ Vonets). No driver needed. Works on both os9 and OSX without any special drivers.

Thanks for the tip.

Something like this?

WiFi N 300M Bridge Wireless to Wired Converter for Xbox 360, Sec Camera, Linux | eBay Australia

This product can covert from wireless to wired, it receives WiFi signal and output wirelessly. So it is suitable for any device which has wired network connection but without wireless function, and doesn't required any drivers.

www.ebay.com.au

---

Just opened the Mac Pro up, wiggled the connectors to the Pioneer drive, blew out some dust bunnies, rebooted, and the optical drive is up and running again.

Now copying over the Instal Discs to the Recovery partitions. Yay.

Still have to work out how to mount the SSD. Am hoping I'll be able to get 1 side screwed in, though saw in the Cube SSD mounting bracket thread that the ATA/SATA adapters tend to get in the way...

 

[cosmichobo]

You know... it's been a while since I've had to do things like - think about how a Mac works... :}

I was thinking firstly that I could just run the OS 9 and OS 10.4 installers from within Sierra on my Mac Pro. Nope - cos they are not Intel compatible apps.

Thought I could use Carbon Copy Cloner to copy the OS 9 and OS 10.4 disks to their respective partitions. Nope - Cloner gave an error for one, and said the other would not be bootable.

Disk Utility then? "Restore" feature? Nope - doesn't like either of the instal disks either. "not valid for restoring".

So I connected the SSD to my Cube (external USB dock), and tried using Disk Utility in Leopard. But - my Cube's optical drive wont mount either disk...

My plan as such at this point - open the Cube, instal the SSD, open the DVD-ROM and clean the roller, try shrink the belt, and clean the lens.

Then, pray. Put it back together, and hope that the optical drive will work, so I can instal an OS...

*facepalm*

My mistake? An assumption... yep, my mistake.

The ATA -> SATA board that I picked up off eBay - the power connector and the data connector are the wrong way around. Because of the position of the "missing pin", the board wont work on the Cube. I would love to try set the SSD up in the optical bay - as with the extra wriggle room (and missing optical drive) I have enough room to get the data and power connected - but I can't even instal an OS on the SSD in order to test it.

So - back to eBay...

--

This is what I bought:

SATA To Pata IDE Converter Adapter Plug&Play 7+15 Pin 3.5/2.5 Sata HDD D JM20330 | eBay Australia

Convert the SATA/7+15 port into a PATA IDE port. 2.5" SATA Female to 3.5" IDE Male Adapter. One 40-pin IDE port to connect to the SATA port of the motherboard. 1x SATA Female to 44Pin IDE Male Adapter.

www.ebay.com.au

This is what I need:

1*PATA IDE TO SATA Converter Adapter Plug 7+15 Pin 3.5/2.5 SATA HDD DVD GreeDS 887261611462 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1*PATA IDE TO SATA Converter Adapter Plug 7+15 Pin 3.5/2.5 SATA HDD DVD GreeDS at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

The notch/missing pin are upside down, so power cable has to go on the opposite side to accommodate the data cable.
Sheesh. Things you don't expect to have to worry about...

---

Took the optical drive apart. Gave it a blast with some compressed air. Cleaned the rubber roller that helps eject the disc with some alcohol - was very dirty. Stuck the drive-belt in boiling water for 20 mins. Can't say I noticed any change. Cleaned the lens with a q-tip and alcohol. Hoping all that will get the drive working again... as I can't for the life of me get Sierra's Disk Utility to let me copy OS 9 or OS X instal disks to the partitions.

 

[bobesch]

Something like this?

Yep! I have two of the older models - white color with a fancy LED-light show.
Came at half of the price of the current model.
The best ever thing about os9/Tiger and Wifi-connection, that I came across yet. I still have to say many thanks to the person, who recommeded that thing here on MR, but I can't remember the source.
There is also a white-colored version of the new Vonets. I'd prefer that over the blue-one in combination to the silver or white Mac design of the PPC-era (though the blue one perfectly fits the Australian flag!)

 

[Amethyst1]

as I can't for the life of me get Sierra's Disk Utility to let me copy OS 9 or OS X instal disks to the partitions.

You can try SuperDuper!.
The SSD must have the Apple Partition Map (APM) format for the Cube to be able to boot from it. GUID Partition Table (GPT) is what Intel Macs use and won’t work.
Ignore any warnings about non-bootability for now.

 

[cosmichobo]

You can try SuperDuper. But the SSD must have the Apple Partition Map (APM) format for the Cube to be able to boot from it. (GUID is what Intel Macs use and won’t work.)

Nail. Head. Thanks. Probably explains the errors that all the apps were giving me.

I'll rebuild the Cube with its original HDD, and use my USB HDD Dock to reformat the SSD using APM. Hopefully my work on the optical drive has got it working again, and I can set up the OS / Recovery partitions.

Then it'll be a 2 week wait for the new IDE - SATA board. It's a shame PPC can't boot from USB.

 

[cosmichobo]

Yep! I have two of the older models - white color with a fancy LED-light show.
Came at half of the price of the current model.
The best ever thing about os9/Tiger and Wifi-connection, that I came across yet. I still have to say many thanks to the person, who recommeded that thing here on MR, but I can't remember the source.
There is also a white-colored version of the new Vonets. I'd prefer that over the blue-one in combination to the silver or white Mac design of the PPC-era (though the blue one perfectly fits the Australian flag!)

This one?

Vonets VAR11N-300 WiFi Wireless Networking Router Bridge Repeater 300Mbps | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vonets VAR11N-300 WiFi Wireless Networking Router Bridge Repeater 300Mbps at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

If/when I set the Cube up in its "forever home" - if I do need wifi, I'll invest in something like that.

Don't mind Aussie blue... prefer TARDIS blue.

 

[cosmichobo]

Put the Cube back together...

Optical drive has not improved, at all. Discs aren't mounting, and don't eject any better than before - though it pops up just enough to grab.

OS 9 thankfully now though is installing onto the SSD using "restore" in Disk Utility; will try 10.4 next -- but first need to get my Mac Pro's optical drive mounted again. Keeps diappearing... At least even without the optical drive, I can get things ready for when my new IDE - SATA board arrives.

Will try open the optical drive up again and clean the lens a bit more...

—
OS 10.4 recovery partition now complete! Going to open the Cube again, leave DVD-ROM out, instal SSD in optical bay using the adapter I have on hand. See if it boots…

 

[cosmichobo]

On a side issue...

I had an odd problem - my Cube could not "see" either the aluminium wired keyboard, or clear/white plastic keyboard that I have on hand. Normally to control the Cube i use screen sharing, as it's not set up in a position to have a keyboard/mouse.

Knowing I was going to need a keyboard/mouse when booting into OS 9 / Tiger, I tried connecting both keyboards, but neither worked. ODD!

Got to thinking bout it... reading online.... nothing... Then I thought - I installed "Rowmote" years ago to control the Cube using an iPhone. So - I disabled it, and - suddenly the keyboard works!

Yay.

 

[bobesch]

An external FireWire-case for both optical-drive and HDD is kind of a Swiss Army knife for PPC.
FW stuff from LaCie is quit decent. (you may even swap the CD-drive for a DVD-Drive)

And yep, my Vonets is that small, flat, square-shaped white bridging device, you've discovered. (Since I saw pictures of the Police box, I'm I'm starting to like stuff that blue color very much! ?)

 

[cosmichobo]

I had hoped to keep the internal optical drive running for the purpose of dropping CDs in... I know that tended to result in better playback than using an MP3... although - maybe modern music files are on par with CD quality...

If the optical drive never works for me again, it's not a huge loss.

Can't get over over fast Tiger loaded from the SSD.

 

[cosmichobo]

New Question…?

My Cube has a Sonnet 1.5Ghz G4 card inside. I don't know ANYTHING about the card... or how to confirm exactly what it is... but it's running at 1.5Ghz, L2 Cache of 512KB, bootrom 4.1.9f1.

Will that stop the machine from booting into OS 9? Do I need to instal something from Sonnet to boot OS 9?

I successfully set up OS 9.1 instal CD on the SSD on its partition... but when I boot, I just get a grey screen.

--

9.2 doesn't boot, either...

Think I’m going to have to identify the Sonnet card…