Multitasking

[Gogurt48]

You do know that some teachers put their lectures online, right? Just figured I'd throw that out there. And if you go to online classes... well, I guess only real colleges where you go to a physical class matter, right? I mean, online schools where you learn just as much... they don't matter. >_>;

So, what you're envisioning is this: You're watching an online lecture on your Mac, and you're holding your iPad still, with its camera aimed at your Mac's screen. At the same time, you're typing notes on the iPad. While holding it still. And recording the lecture.

I'm sorry, but as convenient as that sounds, I just don't think there'd be much demand for that capability.

 

[Defender2010]

OP you keep comparing iOS to Android and Windows - go buy one of them then, your post is ranting and close to trolling...sounds angry.

 

[Michael Goff]

OP you keep comparing iOS to Android and Windows - go buy one of them then, your post is ranting and close to trolling...sounds angry.

Yeah, don't bring up anything that iOS could do better by bringing up examples... that's trolling. If you don't like everything about your iOS device, go get something else.

So, what you're envisioning is this: You're watching an online lecture on your Mac, and you're holding your iPad still, with its camera aimed at your Mac's screen. At the same time, you're typing notes on the iPad. While holding it still. And recording the lecture.

I'm sorry, but as convenient as that sounds, I just don't think there'd be much demand for that capability.

No, that's not what I'm envisioning. How could you have possibly got that from what I put? HOW? I put that you're watching the lecture online and taking notes. Simple. It's not hard to understand.

Yet you seem to be failing to grasp the idea of watching a video and taking notes on it. That just... it's baffling.

 

[cmChimera]

Yeah, don't bring up anything that iOS could do better by bringing up examples... that's trolling. If you don't like everything about your iOS device, go get something else.



No, that's not what I'm envisioning. How could you have possibly got that from what I put? HOW? I put that you're watching the lecture online and taking notes. Simple. It's not hard to understand.

Yet you seem to be failing to grasp the idea of watching a video and taking notes on it. That just... it's baffling.

Doesn't iTunes U let you do that? Serious question.

 

[Gogurt48]

No, that's not what I'm envisioning. How could you have possibly got that from what I put? HOW?

Because you were responding to a comment that said, "I can't honestly remember one time when I've wanted to video record a lecture at the same time I'm surfing the web." So, naturally, I assumed we were still talking about video recording not video watching.

Yet you seem to be failing to grasp the idea of watching a video and taking notes on it. That just... it's baffling.

If I understand you correctly now, you're envisioning having two open windows on the iPad, one of which is showing the lecture, the other in which you take notes. Yes?

 

[Bawstun]

If I understand you correctly now, you're envisioning having two open windows on the iPad, one of which is showing the lecture, the other in which you take notes. Yes?

Well that'll never happen IMO. That's taking the iPad/iPhone to a PC level of multi-tasking with, essentially, minimizing/maximizing windows. Only way you can do something split screen like that unless they develop an app specfically for that purpose?

 

[QuarterSwede]

Well that'll never happen IMO. That's taking the iPad/iPhone to a PC level of multi-tasking with, essentially, minimizing/maximizing windows. Only way you can do something split screen like that unless they develop an app specfically for that purpose?

That's one of his complaints. He wants Windows RT split screen like multitasking. I could see the benefit but if I needed to do that I'd just use my MacBook honestly.

 

[Zerilos]

You do know that some teachers put their lectures online, right? Just figured I'd throw that out there. And if you go to online classes... well, I guess only real colleges where you go to a physical class matter, right? I mean, online schools where you learn just as much... they don't matter. >_>;

Fact of the matter is that Apple has always designed their iOS products primarily for media consumption and not as laptop replacements. This means that if you need to record a lecture (or view it online) while taking notes on the same device, then the iPad probably is not ideal. I'm certain that Apple is aware of this and has accepted the loss of this 0.3% of the market needing their tablet for simultaneous video viewing (or recording) and dictation. Obviously, the Surface RT is there to meeting the needs of this neglected portion of the market...and their sales reflect that fact. For good or bad, Apple's strategy has always been to focus on the basics with their iOS products while simultaneously managing to turn a profit. This means they don't spend resources to add features unless doing so can be accomplished without reducing the quality of the device in other areas and will enhance the profitability of the device. Having plenty of experience with Android tablets (no W8 RT experience) I know how quickly all of those extra features will nuke their ginormous Android batteries. Let's put it this way: the iPad handily defeats all competitors in battery tests, despite the fact that all background features are disabled when the tests are conducted...when those extra features are actually being used the Android device's battery life gets way worse. Basically, if you're buying a tablet and expecting a laptop; then iOS devices are not what you are looking for. All of the major mobile platforms come with tradeoffs and this is Apple's.

 

[Menneisyys2]

. I'm certain that Apple is aware of this and has accepted the loss of this 0.3% of the market needing their tablet for simultaneous video viewing (or recording) and dictation. Obviously, the Surface RT is there to meeting the needs of this neglected portion of the market...and their sales reflect that fact.

If you mean the (pretty bad) sales of RT devices reflect the demand for split-screen (or, even better, multiwindow) multitasking, you're absolutely wrong.

A lot of iPad users simply won't go for the current crop of RT tablets because of their low-res display. An example is me: I love my Retina iPad and, after having used the RT and loved its snap mode, would never purchase it. The screen is just pitifully low-res. That is, people not happy with the complete lack of split-screen multitask won't all purchase an RT tablet.

BTW, speaking of demand:

- another Quasar thread has been opened today (too) here at MR (see https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1601050/ ) - that is, there IS demand, given the frequency of Quasar / splitscreen posts here at MR.

- several leading AppStore apps (for example, CineXPlayer) have added internal split-screen functionality because there IS demand.

- many other AppStore apps exist whose sole purpose is giving the user split-screen functionality, for example, Video DS – DualScreen Video Player ( https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/video-ds-dualscreen-video/id470648308?mt=8 )

- there are a lot of articles out there asking for for example video + Notes split-screen: http://www.imore.com/forums-multitasking-downside-display-iphone-japan (see the "Why can't I watch movies AND do other things at the same time?" link there)

This also shows there IS demand.

----------

This means that if you need to record a lecture (or view it online) while taking notes on the same device, then the iPad probably is not ideal.

Convergence. Why drag along a full notebook when I can (could, if Apple bothered to, say, purchase Quasar and provide users with it on iPads) do the same on an iPad? Convergence is the magic word - this is why smartphones exist at all and PDA's have died.

----------

Well that'll never happen IMO. That's taking the iPad/iPhone to a PC level of multi-tasking with, essentially, minimizing/maximizing windows. Only way you can do something split screen like that unless they develop an app specfically for that purpose?

1. The larger iPad has a LARGE screen estate and sufficiently high resolution. It could easily show more than one window / pane at a time. This is why the only real windowing JB app, Quasar was so popular on iOS5 iPads.

2. Proponents of MS-DOS have, back in time, also said there's no need for splitscreen/windowed multitasking and Windows / OS2 / MacOS / GEOS were all gimmicks. We all know what happened to MS-DOS. Or, a more, background suspending-wise, iOS-like example, Palm OS back in the early 2000's. There was a reason it lost against Windows Mobile on PDA's and Symbian on phones. One of the biggest reasons was its lack of multitasking, while both Windows Mobile and Symbian offered true, unrestricted multitasking. Without windowing, of course, given the small screen estate back then. Nevertheless, the only-to-music-playback restricted multitasking of PalmOS contributed to its death a lot.

 

[Michael Goff]

Doesn't iTunes U let you do that? Serious question.

It likely does, if your school has their lectures on iTunes U. I wouldn't know, I don't use it.

Because you were responding to a comment that said, "I can't honestly remember one time when I've wanted to video record a lecture at the same time I'm surfing the web." So, naturally, I assumed we were still talking about video recording not video watching.



If I understand you correctly now, you're envisioning having two open windows on the iPad, one of which is showing the lecture, the other in which you take notes. Yes?

Yes.

I was responding to the horrible thing with a sarcastic response to point out that it isn't the way he said. Some people would need something like that, contrary to his idea of "nobody needs it because I don't, and I'm going to mock anyone who does".

Fact of the matter is that Apple has always designed their iOS products primarily for media consumption and not as laptop replacements. This means that if you need to record a lecture (or view it online) while taking notes on the same device, then the iPad probably is not ideal. I'm certain that Apple is aware of this and has accepted the loss of this 0.3% of the market needing their tablet for simultaneous video viewing (or recording) and dictation. Obviously, the Surface RT is there to meeting the needs of this neglected portion of the market...and their sales reflect that fact. For good or bad, Apple's strategy has always been to focus on the basics with their iOS products while simultaneously managing to turn a profit. This means they don't spend resources to add features unless doing so can be accomplished without reducing the quality of the device in other areas and will enhance the profitability of the device. Having plenty of experience with Android tablets (no W8 RT experience) I know how quickly all of those extra features will nuke their ginormous Android batteries. Let's put it this way: the iPad handily defeats all competitors in battery tests, despite the fact that all background features are disabled when the tests are conducted...when those extra features are actually being used the Android device's battery life gets way worse. Basically, if you're buying a tablet and expecting a laptop; then iOS devices are not what you are looking for. All of the major mobile platforms come with tradeoffs and this is Apple's.

So we're not supposed to ever want the iPad to evolve into something more than what it is today? That seems like a great way to keep technology stagnant.

 

[TroyBoy30]

i can do some split screens on my note ii. its a gimmick and never gets used

 

[daijholt]

Protuber is an app that lets you play Youtube videos in the background whilst doing other stuff like checking your mail or browsing Safari, and if you lock the phone the video even plays on the lock screen. The functionality is clearly there (that or there's some kind of work around), its just seems like a lot of apps don't to utilise it to its full potential.

 

[DustinT]

Protuber is an app that lets you play Youtube videos in the background whilst doing other stuff like checking your mail or browsing Safari, and if you lock the phone the video even plays on the lock screen. The functionality is clearly there (that or there's some kind of work around), its just seems like a lot of apps don't to utilise it to its full potential.

Yes, I agree the OS has the support for allowing applications to do this. Indeed, apps are currently doing it! But, the market has decided this isn't a mainstream feature.

 

[daijholt]

Yes, I agree the OS has the support for allowing applications to do this. Indeed, apps are currently doing it! But, the market has decided this isn't a mainstream feature.

Come to think of it, & besides Maps of course, YouTube is pretty much the only app its would be useful for anyway.

 

[Abazigal]

Does anyone know if IOS7 lets imovie continue exporting edited videos in the background? I never seemed to get this feature to work on my 4s?

So wired output can't be backgrounded, huh? Never tried it, ironic when I am happily streaming videos to my Apple Tv via airvideo running in the background (videos are stored in my imac in the next room), while playing games or surfing the web on the ipad.

Guess Apple seems pretty intent on pushing their airplay technology.

 

[0000757]

I've promised to a lot of you I'd elaborate on the new multitasking features. After all, one of the recurring biggest buzzwords is multitasking when it comes to iOS7.

First and foremost, the multitasking model hasn't changed much. You cannot run arbitrary code in the background. Only the following types of functionality can be backgrounded (about half of them have already existed before iOS7):

Image

(screenshot from Xcode 5)

What does this mean?

- you can't run video recording in the background while doing something else. This is a big problem IMHO as, for example, on Windows RT you can do anything in any other app while recording video in the "snap" (small) pane on the left. An excellent setup for, say, recording a lecture (assuming you have a holder to hold the tablet vertically so that the camera can see the subject, of course) while making notes on the same device, looking up something in Google / Wiki etc. You can't do the same on iOS.

- you still can't run any kind of video decoding or any kind of video outputting in the background. This could also be GREAT - you display Keynote slides or a video on an external monitor while doing something else on the tablet. (Keynote can be remote controlled while in background on JB'n devices - see my Keynote bible for more info: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1587698/

Currently, as I've also elaborated on in my latest article ("Quick Tip: Displaying and Recording AirPlay-capable iPhone / iPod touch Screens"), in section "Appendix One - What about the background multimedia playback in iOS7?" at https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1600620/ , the only way of driving an external monitor / projector is via wireless AirPlay, even in iOS7. Wired TV output can't be backgrounded in any way

- while video recording from the built-in camera has indeed been (somewhat) enhanced, it still lacks essential programming features like the "lens" feature of WP8 (see http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/software/3412010/windows-phone-8-sdk-review/ for more info). This means you still need to reimplement the entire video / still recording functionality in your own app if you want to, say, record the current location all the time. (iOS' multitasking model, unfortunately, still doesn't let for hour-long background location recording with good accuracy. Therefore, you can't just write a location recorder app and use the stock Camera app to record your video while your backgrounded app records the location - sooner or later, the location recorder will be killed by the system, even on the iPhone 5.) Adding your own functionality to the stock Camera interface is sorely missing - and the (not very extensive) new multitasking features don't help much (again, I refer to dynamic location recording for long-time videos. See my UbiPix recorder for more info: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1517256/ ).

All in all, don't let Apple's big words mislead you. There are indeed some new (mostly downloading / refreshing) multitasking modes. However, a lot of essential multimedia functionality (video recording, video playing, TV output driving etc., see above) still can't be done in the background - unlike on other OS'es.

Will add additional info later.

It seems like all you're doing here is getting extremely specific. The only one that actually has some substantial behind it is the Keynote slides system. Other than that, all the others sound EXTREMELY specific that only tens of users would actually use.

That first point is very unusual too. Maybe you just write really awkwardly, but if someone was going to give a presentation and be recorded while doing it, why would they give their tablet, which is running the presentation to someone else to film them? EDIT: Nevermind, I understand what you're point is (after reading others comments) and still, if you're going to be doing that you should be paying attention the lecture or not there at all.


Also, I'm going to need some support to show that Apple has made any of these claims. They claimed that they have improved multitasking, but nowhere did they claim that all these features you're talking about are integrated, nor did anyone else claim these features were coming.

Again, these don't seem like essential multimedia functionality, more like just niche uses.

Also, WHY in the WORLD would you not want to see the camera as the front app when recording? That's one of the most illogical things I've heard. If you're recording something, uh, you're gonna wanna see what it looks like on the screen to make sure you're capturing everything.

 

[Menneisyys2]

i can do some split screens on my note ii. its a gimmick and never gets used

In your opinion. A lot of Cydia (Quasar) / AppStore (CineXPlayer, Video DS – DualScreen Video Player etc.) customers have a completely different opinion about splitscreen multitasking being a "gimmick".

----------

It seems like all you're doing here is getting extremely specific. The only one that actually has some substantial behind it is the Keynote slides system. Other than that, all the others sound EXTREMELY specific that only tens of users would actually use.

Well, using the iPad / iPhone as a, say, wired car video player is used by many. For example, here at MR users have asked for it (can even look up the thread for you). Same stands for wired video playback in general - I think a lot more than a handful would love doing something on their iDevice while it's playing back video on an external monitor, over a wired connection.

That first point is very unusual too. Maybe you just write really awkwardly, but if someone was going to give a presentation and be recorded while doing it, why would they give their tablet, which is running the presentation to someone else to film them? EDIT: Nevermind, I understand what you're point is (after reading others comments) and still, if you're going to be doing that you should be paying attention the lecture or not there at all.

...


Also, WHY in the WORLD would you not want to see the camera as the front app when recording? That's one of the most illogical things I've heard. If you're recording something, uh, you're gonna wanna see what it looks like on the screen to make sure you're capturing everything.

It was just one example of using the video camera while doing something else on the iDevice. I could mention a lot of other scenarios: you're, for example, shooting a video of your family on your iPhone when somebody asks you for some info present on your iPhone (address, tel. number etc.). You don't want to miss any moments so you don't press the home button (because it'd immediately stop recording video) to switch to Notes / Contacts / anything. This is pretty common a scenario.

Also, I'm going to need some support to show that Apple has made any of these claims. They claimed that they have improved multitasking, but nowhere did they claim that all these features you're talking about are integrated, nor did anyone else claim these features were coming.

A LOT of tech articles stated after Apple's keynote we, at last, have excellent multitasking. (See the iDownloadBlog article's start: "Rejoice, Apple has brought Multitasking to all apps in iOS7." This is absolutely flawed. And that's just one example: a lot of MR forum members are using similarly flawed statements "iOS7 at last has multitasking".) This is why I've started this thread: to make clear what this kind of multitasking is capable of and what it isn't.

----------

Does anyone know if IOS7 lets imovie continue exporting edited videos in the background? I never seemed to get this feature to work on my 4s?

Theoretically, apps should be able to do so even in pre-iOS7 (up to 10 minutes; see Task completion). That is, Apple could implement it in their current (non-iOS7-specific) version as well.

So wired output can't be backgrounded, huh? Never tried it, ironic when I am happily streaming videos to my Apple Tv via airvideo running in the background (videos are stored in my imac in the next room), while playing games or surfing the web on the ipad.

Yup, this is one of the reasons why I'm missing wired video background output.

 

[Abazigal]

Theoretically, apps should be able to do so even in pre-iOS7 (up to 10 minutes; see Task completion). That is, Apple could implement it in their current (non-iOS7-specific) version as well.

Only 10 minutes? That figures. I was processing a rather large file that took over 2 hours to export.

 

[DustinT]

Man, I shudder to think about doing something like that on an iPad... Even a basic laptop or desktop computer would be so much better suited to the task.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Man, I shudder to think about doing something like that on an iPad... Even a basic laptop or desktop computer would be so much better suited to the task.

Again: convergence. Why drag around a bulky, (except for the rMBP's / the Chromabook) low-res, noisy, hot (=x86) laptop when you can have the much lighter iPad with a much better screen? A lot of people (including me) prefer doing as much as possible on their Retina iPads because of the screen, size, battery life, weight etc.

Sadly, Apple has discontinued the 17" MBP line, my favorite one. 15" screens (let alone 13" ones), the only ones with decent Retina screens (rMBP's), are just too small for me (I don't want to use external monitors) so I'm stuck with my WUXGA 17" MBP model. Which is really pixelizated compared to my retina iPad. As are MBA's, BTW. No wonder I (and a lot of other people with low-res notebooks) prefer the iPad.

 

[Night Spring]

It was just one example of using the video camera while doing something else on the iDevice. I could mention a lot of other scenarios: you're, for example, shooting a video of your family on your iPhone when somebody asks you for some info present on your iPhone (address, tel. number etc.). You don't want to miss any moments so you don't press the home button (because it'd immediately stop recording video) to switch to Notes / Contacts / anything. This is pretty common a scenario.

I think you are really reaching there. First of all, I find it hard to imagine that people would imterrupt someone who is busy recording a video to ask them to look up some info on their device. Second, if someone did ask, and you decide to accommodate them, I think it'd be extremely difficult to keep your phone pointed at the event you are recording while at the same time looking up info on it. At best, you are likely to end up with a bumpy and shaky video, because no way will you be able to keep the device completely steady while tapping, swiping and pushing buttons to switch apps and do the necessary manipulation to look up the info.

 

[Menneisyys2]

I think you are really reaching there. First of all, I find it hard to imagine that people would imterrupt someone who is busy recording a video to ask them to look up some info on their device. Second, if someone did ask, and you decide to accommodate them, I think it'd be extremely difficult to keep your phone pointed at the event you are recording while at the same time looking up info on it. At best, you are likely to end up with a bumpy and shaky video, because no way will you be able to keep the device completely steady while tapping, swiping and pushing buttons to switch apps and do the necessary manipulation to look up the info.

1, even a bumpy video is better than no video at all.

2, not necessarily a third person should ask you a question. It can be you yourself who quickly needs some info ("hey, do I have an appointment today?" and the like).

 

[darngooddesign]

Yes, they did hint on the new multitasking features are only refreshing and the like in the keynote. Of course they didn't state "Sorry, but don't expect anything multi-windowing (like Quasar) or snap mode (like that of Windows RT)".

I didn't expect that kind of functionality because Apple didn't demo that kind of functionality.

 

[Night Spring]

1, even a bumpy video is better than no video at all.

2, not necessarily a third person should ask you a question. It can be you yourself who quickly needs some info ("hey, do I have an appointment today?" and the like).

And when would you really need to look up info so urgently that you'd settle for a bumpy video? I can't think of any. I do think multitasking is a feature many people do want, but I really think recording video at the same time you are looking up info *on the same device* is so impractical, it doesn't make a good example of how multitasking could be useful on a mobile device.

 

[TroyBoy30]

In your opinion. A lot of Cydia (Quasar) / AppStore (CineXPlayer, Video DS – DualScreen Video Player etc.) customers have a completely different opinion about splitscreen multitasking being a "gimmick".

.

so happy for them.