Possibly hopefully he is not in jail. Anyway it was a good thread taught me don't go for deals that are to good to be true especially on craigslist.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
My Craigslist Nightmare
- Thread starter Type R
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Possibly hopefully he is not in jail. Anyway it was a good thread taught me don't go for deals that are to good to be true especially on craigslist.
If it was my laptop that was stolen and then sold to you, I would also be $2000 out and would have priority in this.
Call the station and ask for detective Jones. If he is there, then he is real, eh?
The OP was just hoping someone would back him up and tell him to keep it, that it would be ok.
Why in the world would you need a lawyer to guide you through what is a very simple, although expensive, problem?
Call the station and ask for detective Jones. If he is there, then he is real, eh?
The OP was just hoping someone would back him up and tell him to keep it, that it would be ok.
Why in the world would you need a lawyer to guide you through what is a very simple, although expensive, problem?
You give too much credit to law enforcement. My sister was a police officer for twenty years and what she would say is that they didn't do any recruiting but hired wannabes. You give way too much credit to our public institutions, they are no more competent than most businesses.
As for corrupt cops, nothing in this thread suggests that there was anything here other than a cop following up on a Craigslist transaction with a thief. Yes, the buyer was going to be out $2k for buying from a thief, but the rule is "buyer beware", and his bad fortune for not knowing from whom he was buying.
Maximara
macrumors 68000
What if the only Detective Jones there works homicide, hmm?
Because the way this is being handled is so bizarre that something is clearly wrong.
The police go into potentially dangerous situations every day...so an officer is going to dial a number with only a first name to go on?!? 😱
If there is any probable cause they can get a warrant and find out who the number belongs to. There is no reason for a cop to call the number and many logical and practical reasons that they would NOT call the number.
The fact the supposed cop ignored the "I'm not going to speak to anyone without my attorney" raises a red flag faster then a 25 car pile up at Indianapolis. "Legally the police may not continue to question you once you have invoked your right to counsel." (Know Your Rights, Jay K Ramey Attorney At Law)
The best thing to do with something like this is to get the name, badge number, and department. Then call the police and verify that such a person exists in the department given. If that checks out then it is time to get an attorney because they will have details you generally don't have access to.
I thought everyone already knew that craiglists is a Scamming Sellers haven. At least with Ebay, they have the Sellers under the thumb.
----------
Any actual stats to back up this enormous Faux News worthy assumption (gut-feeling)?
Not to mention, you get what you pay for. Like walmart, most counties/cities pay peanuts so they don't recruit the best and brightest into law enforcement.
Even if they did pay like other advanced nations, who in their right mind we be a police officer or teacher (i.e. scapegoat) in this country today? The only developed nation on the planet where both are attacked, blamed, and hated ironically on a 'daily basis'.
Of course it's never the flawed system, our arbitrary and archaic laws, or our underlying pathetic attitude that is to blame, as we're Amuuuricans!. So it must be the cops, teachers, Guuvmint... to blame.
----------
Any actual stats to back up this enormous Faux News worthy assumption (gut-feeling)?
Not to mention, you get what you pay for. Like walmart, most counties/cities pay peanuts so they don't recruit the best and brightest into law enforcement.
Even if they did pay like other advanced nations, who in their right mind we be a police officer or teacher (i.e. scapegoat) in this country today? The only developed nation on the planet where both are attacked, blamed, and hated ironically on a 'daily basis'.
Of course it's never the flawed system, our arbitrary and archaic laws, or our underlying pathetic attitude that is to blame, as we're Amuuuricans!. So it must be the cops, teachers, Guuvmint... to blame.
northernmunky
macrumors 6502a
His join date is 8 Jul 2013 and only 5 posts. He's probably got all the answers he needs and doesn't have a reason anymore to come back and review this thread.
re: stats
Quite frankly, I don't feel any pressing urgency to give you those statistics to back up my comments -- because all I do to realize it's true is keep on top of the news each day.
And "You get what you pay for" is hardly the problem! I think we're actually spending TOO MUCH on law enforcement in many of our major cities. The knee-jerk response to complaints of crime is "Hire more officers!" (Visited Memphis, TN recently, for example? The area feels like it's literally swarming with police cars in recent years. You can't even enjoy an evening walking down Beale Street anymore without seeing a massive police presence - including a huge trolley car sized thing on a crane that serves as a police watch-tower.)
Just like our education system in America, you can't just throw money at the problems and expect a magic fix. There's something drastically wrong with today's police force that starts at the top and runs through it. (For example, I used to have a good friend who was a cop.... really nice guy. Not someone you'd ever peg as a police officer if you talked to him when he wasn't in uniform. Guess what? They reassigned him to only handling evidence collection after car crashes, and took him off the regular beat. Why? Because they don't see a place for "nice guys" in the police force today. They want the types who will yell and scream at people if they dare question their orders, and who will issue the maximum number of citations. There was a news program I watched a couple years ago talking about this same mentality. A guy explained how one of his interview questions for becoming a cop was, "Do you or did you ever play roll playing fantasy games, such as Dungeons & Dragons?" Answering yes meant you weren't hired! Their "reasoning" was the idea that the force has no place for imaginative types who would enjoy fantasy worlds.
And as for your eBay comment? I have to laugh at that one. Log on eBay right now if you like, and do a search for, say "Macbook Pro" or "Mac Pro"? I guarantee you can find auctions yourself which are clearly scams!
Quite frankly, I don't feel any pressing urgency to give you those statistics to back up my comments -- because all I do to realize it's true is keep on top of the news each day.
And "You get what you pay for" is hardly the problem! I think we're actually spending TOO MUCH on law enforcement in many of our major cities. The knee-jerk response to complaints of crime is "Hire more officers!" (Visited Memphis, TN recently, for example? The area feels like it's literally swarming with police cars in recent years. You can't even enjoy an evening walking down Beale Street anymore without seeing a massive police presence - including a huge trolley car sized thing on a crane that serves as a police watch-tower.)
Just like our education system in America, you can't just throw money at the problems and expect a magic fix. There's something drastically wrong with today's police force that starts at the top and runs through it. (For example, I used to have a good friend who was a cop.... really nice guy. Not someone you'd ever peg as a police officer if you talked to him when he wasn't in uniform. Guess what? They reassigned him to only handling evidence collection after car crashes, and took him off the regular beat. Why? Because they don't see a place for "nice guys" in the police force today. They want the types who will yell and scream at people if they dare question their orders, and who will issue the maximum number of citations. There was a news program I watched a couple years ago talking about this same mentality. A guy explained how one of his interview questions for becoming a cop was, "Do you or did you ever play roll playing fantasy games, such as Dungeons & Dragons?" Answering yes meant you weren't hired! Their "reasoning" was the idea that the force has no place for imaginative types who would enjoy fantasy worlds.
And as for your eBay comment? I have to laugh at that one. Log on eBay right now if you like, and do a search for, say "Macbook Pro" or "Mac Pro"? I guarantee you can find auctions yourself which are clearly scams!
Unfortunately, he has already admitted to receiving the laptop. So, he is beyond abandoning it.
Hiring a lawyer may be the only way he can avoid being charged with a crime. If he is charged with a crime, he will be hiring a lawyer anyway, unless he wants to take his chances with a public defender.
I haven't seen anything about "good faith". From what I've learned, you can keep stolen goods that you buy so long as you bought them in "good faith".
If this truly was a maxed out 15" rMBP ($3,449 retail + tax by my count), then OP did not buy this in good faith for only $2,000. Something is obviously up with it with such a heavy discount.
Even if it was only the $2,800 version rMBP that OP bought for $2,000, that seems like a transaction not in "good faith" to me. Especially when sales tax is factored in (if applicable).
Other things can definitely play into good faith, such as what happened during the negotiations, did the seller act/claim to be the original owner, would a reasonable person believe the seller's claims?
Just my two cents.
If this truly was a maxed out 15" rMBP ($3,449 retail + tax by my count), then OP did not buy this in good faith for only $2,000. Something is obviously up with it with such a heavy discount.
Even if it was only the $2,800 version rMBP that OP bought for $2,000, that seems like a transaction not in "good faith" to me. Especially when sales tax is factored in (if applicable).
Other things can definitely play into good faith, such as what happened during the negotiations, did the seller act/claim to be the original owner, would a reasonable person believe the seller's claims?
Just my two cents.
thekev
macrumors 604
Is there any precedence where an anonymous phone call would constitute formal police contact? At the very least I suspect they would have given some way to verify their identities as law enforcement. I'm not saying it couldn't happen if all they had was a phone number, just that this demands some kind of source or reference.
I highly doubt that is legal anywhere, and it would really require a source. Even then you couldn't assume it would be legal in any state or county. You are all playing the role of armchair lawyers. I suspect (note suspect) having purchased in good faith would prevent charges involving the receipt of stolen property, but you have no basis to suggest that this allows anyone to retain said property. Spread bad advice somewhere else.
Last edited by a moderator:
ShiftClick
macrumors regular
When I moved across country I sold many high dollar items at prices that someone could question because I wanted to make a quick sale. I'm not a thief but circumstances exist where I could see a deal like that materializing with out any nefarious activities. Good Faith is more than paying close to MSRP...
Learned it in my Business Law class back in college.
"In both commercial and noncommercial law, persons who in good faith pay a fraudulent seller valuable consideration for property are protected from another person who claims legal title to the property. If a court establishes the purchaser's good faith defense, the person who claims title has recourse only against the fraudulent seller. Strong public policy is behind the good faith defense. Good faith doctrines enhance the flow of goods in commerce, as under them, buyers are not required, in the ordinary course of business, to go to extraordinary efforts to determine whether sellers actually have good title."
Source: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/good+faith
Also relevant is the concept of bona fide purchaser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_purchaser
Agreed.
Last edited:
re: good faith
That's, IMO, only sensible. But the problem is (as I complained about in my previous posts), the police have little to no interest in doing anything more than "solving the crime". Since you're not the person who made the initial call, as a buyer you're just collateral damage.
Real world example? I used to work at a small computer store as a technician. (There were only 3 of us running the store; the owner, his good friend and me.)
Not long after the Christmas holiday, a man came in with what looked like an opened but essentially brand new Toshiba laptop and wanted to sell it to us. The owner asked him why he was selling it and he explained that he received it as a gift, didn't have the store receipt to return it, and really needed the money more than another computer. To make sure everything was on the up and up, the store owner asked him for his drivers license and photocopied it, and then agreed to buy the machine from him. (I forget the price now, but I want to say it was several hundred bucks below its retail price. Fair enough, considering we'd have it taking up valuable shelf space and had no idea how long it would be to find a buyer for it.)
The next week, the local sheriff showed up at the door, looking for the machine and immediately seized it upon seeing it on the shelf. Apparently, the seller was actually a guy recently out of prison who took a job someplace where he had access to see people's credit reports. He'd then apply for lines of credit under other people's identities and buy goods to resell for quick cash.
I can't imagine how our store didn't buy that laptop "in good faith", yet nobody cared. The owner was out the money he paid for it and the police simply thanked him for photocopying the guy's license, saying we were the first ones to think to do that, and left.
Like someone else commented, I guess you could get a lawyer and fight a situation like this? But it would surely cost you more than what you lost on the merchandise in the first place. (Even if you won, the lawyer would expect payment and a judgement against the thief for your legal fees is pretty likely not to ever get repaid.)
That's, IMO, only sensible. But the problem is (as I complained about in my previous posts), the police have little to no interest in doing anything more than "solving the crime". Since you're not the person who made the initial call, as a buyer you're just collateral damage.
Real world example? I used to work at a small computer store as a technician. (There were only 3 of us running the store; the owner, his good friend and me.)
Not long after the Christmas holiday, a man came in with what looked like an opened but essentially brand new Toshiba laptop and wanted to sell it to us. The owner asked him why he was selling it and he explained that he received it as a gift, didn't have the store receipt to return it, and really needed the money more than another computer. To make sure everything was on the up and up, the store owner asked him for his drivers license and photocopied it, and then agreed to buy the machine from him. (I forget the price now, but I want to say it was several hundred bucks below its retail price. Fair enough, considering we'd have it taking up valuable shelf space and had no idea how long it would be to find a buyer for it.)
The next week, the local sheriff showed up at the door, looking for the machine and immediately seized it upon seeing it on the shelf. Apparently, the seller was actually a guy recently out of prison who took a job someplace where he had access to see people's credit reports. He'd then apply for lines of credit under other people's identities and buy goods to resell for quick cash.
I can't imagine how our store didn't buy that laptop "in good faith", yet nobody cared. The owner was out the money he paid for it and the police simply thanked him for photocopying the guy's license, saying we were the first ones to think to do that, and left.
Like someone else commented, I guess you could get a lawyer and fight a situation like this? But it would surely cost you more than what you lost on the merchandise in the first place. (Even if you won, the lawyer would expect payment and a judgement against the thief for your legal fees is pretty likely not to ever get repaid.)
You might want to read that again.
What your talking about applies to merchants and purchasers in the ordinary course of business. It doesn't apply to two guys dealing on Craigslist.
"To meet this test, the person must be a merchant, must have demonstrated honesty in the conduct of the transaction concerned, and must have observed reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing in the trade. A buyer would likely meet these requirements if the purchase proceeded in the ordinary course of business. If, on the other hand, the purchase took place under unusual or suspicious circumstances, a court might conclude that the buyer lacked good faith."
"Good faith" on Craigslist may keep you from being arrested for possession of stolen property. But you will have to return the goods to the rightful owner.
The part that you quoted only applies if you are trying to use the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) in your defense. The bona fide purchaser doctrine (or innocent purchaser doctrine) is different than the UCC.
But only the UCC allows a purchase in good faith to keep it.
A bona fide purchaser who is not buying in the course of business from a merchant is treated as being innocent (no criminal charges no civil suit), but he still has to return the item.
Nemo dat quod non habet.
Gonzo3333
macrumors 6502a
The OP probably figured out that the police had more information on him or her than anticipated and has been apprehended or has possibly fled. I understand being cheap, I am all about it if I can get away with it. Buying high priced electronics on Craigslist is very suspect especially if the price is too good to be true.
Simple test: if the seller can get more value then they are requesting, there must be a reason. If the reason isn't clear and acceptable, walk away.
crzdcolombian
macrumors 6502a
haha usually rich kid who wants something better, crack head, guy who doesn't know what he has or someone struggling for money. Most people on craigslist are kind of broke. I always laugh when people come over to buy stuff from me and are like wow man your place is super nice. That is why I always write I am not a crack head don't low ball me. 😀
I've usually been able to screen those sketchy ones out just by the way they write their messages, talk on the phone.... I've gotten many awesome deals through craigslist - but they often involve being buzzed into gated communities where I suppose the reason is obvious -- they just want it gone and money is a non issue.