I think only with Quadro do you get like a 300x faster speed in wireframe speed.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
My dad needs a Mac
- Thread starter MacMini2009
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I think only with Quadro do you get like a 300x faster speed in wireframe speed.
i think iMAC would be the right one. this one has more raw processing power thn the others. so i think it would be correct for your dad. but thn dont go for Minis. one of my friend has it and it does not provide enough power which is required.
First I would say remember this is your fathers business computer and he will be using it mainly for AutoCAD. So even though you do like Macs the Mac brand would be superfluous as he will be spending most if not all his time in Windows.
Then I would say build the AutoCAD PC yourself. It would be much cheaper than a Dell, more upgradeable and you can use high grade components, such as the motherboard and PSU. Dell just uses whatever the lowest bidder offers that meets requirements.
For about then $1300 you can build your father an very high quality Core 2 Quad workstation. This includes 24" widescreen, 4GB RAM, 1TB RAID 5 array and Windows Vista Business x64 (which can get the free upgrade to Win 7 when it is released). For around $1450 you can go Core i7, more expandable motherboard and 6GB DDR3.
Are you nervous about building the computer. It is quite easy, screw some stuff to the case, plug everything in, look at your manual to set up RAID 5 in the BIOS, then install Windows, install the software and drivers. I already did the most difficult part for you by finding the parts.
Parts:
CPU; Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83Ghz $220
RAM; 4GB DDR2 800 Corsair XMS2 $55
Motherboard; Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P $135
PSU; Corsair 650W 80+ certified $100
Case; Cooler Master Centurion $45
Hard Drive; Hitachi 500GB (get three for 1TB RAID 5) $165 for all 3
Monitor; Samsung 24" good reviews $310
Video Card; XFX Radeon 4650 $55
DVD; Samsung DVD DL $26
OS; Win Vista Business x64 (includes Win 7 free upgrade voucher) $150
Shipping about $50
Total $1261
Core i7 System:
CPU Core i7 920 2.66Ghz $280
Motherboard; MSI X58 Pro-E $190
RAM: 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 1600 OCZ Gold $100
Total $1421
Notes:
- Don't bother saving a few bucks with a Dual Core CPU or less than RAID 5. After the cost of everything else the price decrease of the downgrades is negligible but the performance decrease, hence lifespan, is massive.
- Budget for other upgrades if needed (Printer, Network, Back up drives). Go to the websites for your fathers peripherals and make sure they have Vista x64 drivers and then Google search to see if those peripherals work in Windows 7 x64 RC.
- I included RAID 5 due to the faster read/write and if a drive fails the computer does not need to have Windows, software and backups re-installed. Instead you just replace the failed drive.
- I included a 24" screen since that 1920x1200 can be quite beneficial in his work flow compared to a 20" 1680x1050.
- I included Vista Business for Remote Desktop Client support
- Software
* Budget for software upgrades as well like Office and AutoCAD 2010
* If your father needs MS Exchange support he may want MS Office 2007 Small Business Edition if he does not need MS Exchange and Outlook then the free Open Office may work fine.
* Anti-Virus: Get Avast Antivirus free edition it works great, it is free, and uses very little resources. I install it on my own, friends, family and customers computers.
* Other software such as Quickbooks
* Does your father use the 3D visualization features in AutoCAD he may benefit in an NVidia Quadro graphics card since AutoCAD 2010 includes CUDA support for 3D work.
Then I would say build the AutoCAD PC yourself. It would be much cheaper than a Dell, more upgradeable and you can use high grade components, such as the motherboard and PSU. Dell just uses whatever the lowest bidder offers that meets requirements.
For about then $1300 you can build your father an very high quality Core 2 Quad workstation. This includes 24" widescreen, 4GB RAM, 1TB RAID 5 array and Windows Vista Business x64 (which can get the free upgrade to Win 7 when it is released). For around $1450 you can go Core i7, more expandable motherboard and 6GB DDR3.
Are you nervous about building the computer. It is quite easy, screw some stuff to the case, plug everything in, look at your manual to set up RAID 5 in the BIOS, then install Windows, install the software and drivers. I already did the most difficult part for you by finding the parts.
Parts:
CPU; Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83Ghz $220
RAM; 4GB DDR2 800 Corsair XMS2 $55
Motherboard; Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P $135
PSU; Corsair 650W 80+ certified $100
Case; Cooler Master Centurion $45
Hard Drive; Hitachi 500GB (get three for 1TB RAID 5) $165 for all 3
Monitor; Samsung 24" good reviews $310
Video Card; XFX Radeon 4650 $55
DVD; Samsung DVD DL $26
OS; Win Vista Business x64 (includes Win 7 free upgrade voucher) $150
Shipping about $50
Total $1261
Core i7 System:
CPU Core i7 920 2.66Ghz $280
Motherboard; MSI X58 Pro-E $190
RAM: 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 1600 OCZ Gold $100
Total $1421
Notes:
- Don't bother saving a few bucks with a Dual Core CPU or less than RAID 5. After the cost of everything else the price decrease of the downgrades is negligible but the performance decrease, hence lifespan, is massive.
- Budget for other upgrades if needed (Printer, Network, Back up drives). Go to the websites for your fathers peripherals and make sure they have Vista x64 drivers and then Google search to see if those peripherals work in Windows 7 x64 RC.
- I included RAID 5 due to the faster read/write and if a drive fails the computer does not need to have Windows, software and backups re-installed. Instead you just replace the failed drive.
- I included a 24" screen since that 1920x1200 can be quite beneficial in his work flow compared to a 20" 1680x1050.
- I included Vista Business for Remote Desktop Client support
- Software
* Budget for software upgrades as well like Office and AutoCAD 2010
* If your father needs MS Exchange support he may want MS Office 2007 Small Business Edition if he does not need MS Exchange and Outlook then the free Open Office may work fine.
* Anti-Virus: Get Avast Antivirus free edition it works great, it is free, and uses very little resources. I install it on my own, friends, family and customers computers.
* Other software such as Quickbooks
* Does your father use the 3D visualization features in AutoCAD he may benefit in an NVidia Quadro graphics card since AutoCAD 2010 includes CUDA support for 3D work.
What version of AutoCAD is he running? If its 2008 or older, then he doesn't need a super-awesome graphics card if he's only doing 2D work. Is he doing 3D? Does he own his own company, or does he just have to work from home? If it's CAD '09/'10, does he have access to the 64-bit versions, or just the 32-bit?
velocityg4, while I do think that a PC is probably better, I think your system is pretty overkill in a few areas (unless his father is doing 3D, which he's not told us). Unless you're doing 3D renderings, there's no reason to go for a quad when a dual-core is more than plenty (for AutoCAD anyway). I'll give you the Radeon, just because it's cheap, but it's not necessary for 2D work. And the 1-TB RAID 5? Not that it costs that much, but it's overkill. A single boot drive and a backup would be plenty.
For reference, I had to do some CAD work at home the other day, but I ran AutoCAD 2008 on a celeron 1.6 with 1GB RAM and Vista Basic. It performed just fine for 2D work. (Though I couldn't even get AutoCAD 2010 to launch). It's not my computer, it's a loaner, but suffice it to say that my main desktop is 3,000 miles away. (And for what it's worth, I can run AutoCAD 2006 on the laptop in my sig.)
So really, it comes down to what I asked in the beginning. AutoCAD version? 2D or 3D?
velocityg4, while I do think that a PC is probably better, I think your system is pretty overkill in a few areas (unless his father is doing 3D, which he's not told us). Unless you're doing 3D renderings, there's no reason to go for a quad when a dual-core is more than plenty (for AutoCAD anyway). I'll give you the Radeon, just because it's cheap, but it's not necessary for 2D work. And the 1-TB RAID 5? Not that it costs that much, but it's overkill. A single boot drive and a backup would be plenty.
For reference, I had to do some CAD work at home the other day, but I ran AutoCAD 2008 on a celeron 1.6 with 1GB RAM and Vista Basic. It performed just fine for 2D work. (Though I couldn't even get AutoCAD 2010 to launch). It's not my computer, it's a loaner, but suffice it to say that my main desktop is 3,000 miles away. (And for what it's worth, I can run AutoCAD 2006 on the laptop in my sig.)
So really, it comes down to what I asked in the beginning. AutoCAD version? 2D or 3D?
He is running AutoCAD 2004 and does 2D renderings. Well if it works on an old pentium computer with integrated graphics, I think a dual core cpu, maybe quad, and a nice dedicated graphics card would be fine.
Well, to me it seems like OP is only looking for an excuse to by himself a Mac. Don't bother to give some real advice. He will buy it anyway - it is the RDF at work...
No, have you read this the whole thread? I have considered getting a Dell or any other PC since he will only be using Windows.
Thanks for your post! I may consider building a PC. Me and my Dad have visited Dell.com a couple times and we might purchase the Studio XPS desktop.
AutoCAD 2004 has some relatively low requirements, so any modern system (including any Intel Mac) will be fine. Whether you get a PC or a Mac with Bootcamp, stay away from Vista, as it doesn't play nice with older versions of AutoCAD. If your dad is comfortable with spending the money on a Mac, you could really get by with either the iMac or the MacMini. If you get the Mini, you could really get away with the stock $799 one--even the $599 one would be fine, really, but the SSD is an unnecessary expense and you are on a tight budget.
And just pick up a PS/2 to USB adapter for the keyboard and mouse. Then you can keep your expenses even lower.
And just pick up a PS/2 to USB adapter for the keyboard and mouse. Then you can keep your expenses even lower.
If we get Windows 7 when it comes out, will AutoCAD 2004 be compatible or do we have to buy the newest version? I didn't know there are PS/2 to USB adapters, now we can keep our keyboard and mouse if we get a Mac Mini.
Aehm, sorry. It just looked like you where still considering a Mac.
Take a look at http://us.shuttle.com/
I like their systems a lot. First they are small - you can even take them on the road if you must.
And secondly they are immensely flexible in their configurations using standard desktop parts.
Thirdly, you don't have to install every single part. They mainly come preconfigured with the CPU. You only put in DVD, HDD,RAM and Graphics card.
Why not take a look at the Dell Precision Workstations - They are made especially for apps like autoCAD and are much cheaper than the XPS machines.
I don't know about Windows 7 and AutoCAD 2004, but I would suspect that it would not work. Windows 7 uses a similar codebase to Vista, and I tried to install AutoCAD 2006 under vista. It was a disaster.
Honestly, given that a new version of AutoCAD will run you several thousand dollars and XP will only run you a few hundred (at most), I would keep AutoCAD and buy Windows to fit it and not the other way around.
EDIT: I found some prices for you. AutoCAD 2008 LT (the cheapest version that will run on Vista) is $830 used and $1100 new. You can get XP Pro SP3 for $140 at Newegg.
Honestly, given that a new version of AutoCAD will run you several thousand dollars and XP will only run you a few hundred (at most), I would keep AutoCAD and buy Windows to fit it and not the other way around.
EDIT: I found some prices for you. AutoCAD 2008 LT (the cheapest version that will run on Vista) is $830 used and $1100 new. You can get XP Pro SP3 for $140 at Newegg.
Aehm, sorry. It just looked like you where still considering a Mac.
Take a look at http://us.shuttle.com/
I like their systems a lot. First they are small - you can even take them on the road if you must.
And secondly they are immensely flexible in their configurations using standard desktop parts.
Thirdly, you don't have to install every single part. They mainly come preconfigured with the CPU. You only put in DVD, HDD,RAM and Graphics card.
Its ok
Is that in the business section? I will look there.
Definitely build it. You will get a more expandable motherboard and it is cheaper. You can save money on the power supply. I just listed a high end one for reliability and energy efficiency. Plus a few years down the road when it starts feeling sluggish you can pop on a good heatsink and overclock the bejesus out of it to give it an extra year or two of service
.Furthermore if the Dell breaks you have to ship it in and wait a few weeks for repair which is costly downtime. From a few Dells I have seen the interior of they do not use an ATX form factor motherboard, the screw hole placement is proprietary. So if that fails you can not run down to the store and buy a replacement rather than waiting for a warranty repair.
If you don't need the performance of RAID 5 you can save a little with RAID 1. Since it is a business computer I would recommend RAID 1 at a minimum to prevent downtime replacing a failed drive, then reloading all software and data.
Since he is doing 2D work only then the Core 2 Duo should be fine. Mainly I listed the Quads because I was factoring for the cost of all other hardware, updating most or all the software (make sure all the old stuff is Vista/7 x64 compatible), and replacing some peripherals. In which case the price difference between a dual core and a quad core becomes negligible while the performance and lifespan difference is drastic. The same thought factored into RAID 5 vs RAID 1. But with a Core 2 Duo, RAID 1, cheaper less efficient PSU, and a lesser motherboard you could knock $200-$300 off the price, even more so if you reused your monitor or bought a 20".
Definitely build it. You will get a more expandable motherboard and it is cheaper. You can save money on the power supply. I just listed a high end one for reliability and energy efficiency. Plus a few years down the road when it starts feeling sluggish you can pop on a good heatsink and overclock the bejesus out of it to give it an extra year or two of service
Furthermore if the Dell breaks you have to ship it in and wait a few weeks for repair which is costly downtime. From a few Dells I have seen the interior of they do not use an ATX form factor motherboard, the screw hole placement is proprietary. So if that fails you can not run down to the store and buy a replacement rather than waiting for a warranty repair.
If you don't need the performance of RAID 5 you can save a little with RAID 1. Since it is a business computer I would recommend RAID 1 at a minimum to prevent downtime replacing a failed drive, then reloading all software and data.
Since he is doing 2D work only then the Core 2 Duo should be fine. Mainly I listed the Quads because I was factoring for the cost of all other hardware, updating most or all the software (make sure all the old stuff is Vista/7 x64 compatible), and replacing some peripherals. In which case the price difference between a dual core and a quad core becomes negligible while the performance and lifespan difference is drastic. The same thought factored into RAID 5 vs RAID 1. But with a Core 2 Duo, RAID 1, cheaper less efficient PSU, and a lesser motherboard you could knock $200-$300 off the price, even more so if you reused your monitor or bought a 20".
Is building a PC really easy?
Yep, it's quite easy, and if you get stuck along the way then there are hundreds of forums that will provide help in a second.
Well, only if it works in the end. If it does not, you have nobody to blame it on but yourself.
I used to build my PC's myself - I have given up on it. If a system from a decent manufacturer stops working your are covered by warranties. I would only ever go so far as to buy a barebones-system, that has all the crucial bits already installed...
PS: They used to have this fun store in Germany: Atelco. You could essentially pick your components from the shelf, put them in one of their computer cases (they even had workbenches with screwdrivers, etc.) and when you walked out you had your own specially build system (they only charged for the parts). Not sure if they are still around...
I would get a Quadro card for AutoCAD since it can do rendering on a GPU; a GPU will speed up rendering the complex stuff.
Since you need Windows to run it as well, I'd stick with buying a PC for this job; sometimes it's not good to go with a Mac, and this is one of those cases.
Since you need Windows to run it as well, I'd stick with buying a PC for this job; sometimes it's not good to go with a Mac, and this is one of those cases.
I think it is quite fun to do and easy since everything is plug and play, just make sure the parts are compatible (the parts I mentioned all are). You get to pick and choose all the components you will use (there are literally hundreds of motherboards each one is slightly different). If you feel like it there are many BIOS settings you can tweak that are just not available on manufactured computers.
I could never buy a factory made desktop again; it frustrates me they do several standards like ATX, mATX, BTX etc... for laptops for the DIYer. Though I am a really hands on type of person, started dismantling VCR's when I was about 6 or 7. If you are the type who enjoys building and repairing stuff about the house then you will likely find building the computer fascinating.
I think the most difficult part is connecting the case front panel to the motherboard. But that is just a manner of looking in the manual to see which wire plugs in where as they are labeled. All of the other components can only fit into the connectors they were designed for, so if they fit that is were they go if they don't fit they plug in somewhere else or you need to change their orientation..
if you buy cheapo computer show junk, then you will have problems. every motherboard from a major manufacturer like Asus, Gigabyte or MSI will work fine. i've been building computers since 1997 and never had a problem.
the problem with Dell and HP is if you want something nice to play games you have to buy their gaming brands that are a rip off. reason is you need a powerful power supply. if you build your own then you just buy a nice power supply which is around $50 to power modern graphics cards that require to be plugged into a power supply.
to the OP, if your dad wants OS X but doesn't want to pay the price for an iMac check out Anandtech.com. there is a whole thread in the Apple forum there on how to build a hackintosh and which parts to use.
No. I built a Vista machine being selective with the components (eg: Asus motherboard), and it's a failure.