My first PPC Mac...part the second.

[DCBassman]

It Lives!
But only by the clunky expedient of using an external FW800 drive. The internal ATA bus seems kaput.
Now I have it running, will try and get some sort of Linux on it.

 

[M.Brane]

Sweet! 10.4 was probably the most stable OS I ever ran. I should fire up the old FrankenG4DA. It's been a while...

Biggest issue with those old Powerbooks is the battery. Not many options these days.

 

[Bug-Creator]

DDR(1) RAM and what looks like a reasonable resolution? I'd guess a 17" 5.7.

Sure the bus is dead or maybe just the drive? mSATA to IDE would be the way to go.

If the DVD still works you can even put it in there as a last resort.

 

[DCBassman]

Biggest issue with those old Powerbooks is the battery.

Indeed, even a dead one to refurbish is stupid money.

DDR(1) RAM and what looks like a reasonable resolution? I'd guess a 17" 5.7.

Sure the bus is dead or maybe just the drive? mSATA to IDE would be the way to go.

If the DVD still works you can even put it in there as a last resort.

Have already tried all that, and none of it works. Original drive, new drive, mSATA with adaptor - not even visible on the bus, with or without ODD connected. ODD opened, cleaned, tested on another machine, all good.
Hence the FW route.
1440x900, 17 inch A1107.
I'll see if i can still get an ATA ODD caddy and try an SSD in that, but tgese things are so picky...

 

[Bug-Creator]

Biggest issue with those old Powerbooks is the battery. Not many options these days.

Bought one of the last "new" 3rd party replacement ones from ebay like 15 years ago for my 5.9. Still holds about 70%. Also got a genuine Apple one with about 50% and another with 30%, so I'm good for a while.

New batteries for 15" were MIA even then....

 

[DCBassman]

I'll see if i can still get an ATA ODD caddy and try an SSD in that, but these things are so picky...

Nope, these are no longer available anywhere, so that option is closed.

 

[eyoungren]

Sweet! 10.4 was probably the most stable OS I ever ran. I should fire up the old FrankenG4DA. It's been a while...

Biggest issue with those old Powerbooks is the battery. Not many options these days.

10.4 and most stable OS are not words I would ever put together. At least in a mixed environment of PC/Macs and a PC server. Tiger was the most extremely unstable OS I've ever had the displeasure of using for several years in that environment. Panther was far more stable and Leopard was far more robust.

On my home Macs, without having to be integrated with PCs and a server, there wasn't too much issue. But I'm still not a fan.

 

[DCBassman]

Now trying to get Leopard installed. Having lots of fun with dual-layer DVDs...
It was definitely a good move to get hold of the Firewire devices, I'd be completely stuck without them.

 

[Project Alice]

The ATA bus being dead is extremely unlikely. I guess not impossible, technically. But its unlikely. More likely would be the cable. And, I see you said you put the ODD in another machine to see if it works, and it does.

Before writing the bus off as dead, get a new cable, and a new drive (HDD\SSD). IDE by nature is odd sometimes in, if one thing on the bus doesn't work right, it can screw with everything else on the bus. IE, if you have a bad HDD cable or HDD, it could make the ODD not show up or act weird too. It wouldn't hurt to put a known working cable in the problematic PowerBook, it could be that the ODD cable is causing an issue. They still have to properly be set as slave\master\CS which if one of the cables is screwy that could cause them to not show up.

So that's what I'd do before writing off the bus. If that doesn't work, consider yourself unlucky I guess lol. At least it's a FW 800 model, an SSD in a FW800 enclosure is pretty quick, and you can daisy chain a FW ODD too, and whatever else. Just be aware in this scenario that there is only a single FW bus, so it'll default to the slowest speed device connected. If you have a FW 400 ODD plugged into it while booting off the FW 800 drive, you'll be bottlenecking the boot drive with 400Mbps.

 

[DCBassman]

The ATA bus being dead is extremely unlikely. I guess not impossible, technically. But its unlikely. More likely would be the cable. And, I see you said you put the ODD in another machine to see if it works, and it does.

Before writing the bus off as dead, get a new cable, and a new drive (HDD\SSD). IDE by nature is odd sometimes in, if one thing on the bus doesn't work right, it can screw with everything else on the bus. IE, if you have a bad HDD cable or HDD, it could make the ODD not show up or act weird too. It wouldn't hurt to put a known working cable in the problematic PowerBook, it could be that the ODD cable is causing an issue. They still have to properly be set as slave\master\CS which if one of the cables is screwy that could cause them to not show up.

So that's what I'd do before writing off the bus. If that doesn't work, consider yourself unlucky I guess lol. At least it's a FW 800 model, an SSD in a FW800 enclosure is pretty quick, and you can daisy chain a FW ODD too, and whatever else. Just be aware in this scenario that there is only a single FW bus, so it'll default to the slowest speed device connected. If you have a FW 400 ODD plugged into it while booting off the FW 800 drive, you'll be bottlenecking the boot drive with 400Mbps.

I've ordered a replacement cable. I have a selection of drives, from the original spinner, a newer, larger spinner, and an mSATA adapter. If that works, great. It will still be a desktop machine, as it were, because a new battery for this is simply unobtainable.

They still have to properly be set as slave\master\CS

How is this done? There are no jumpers on the original drive, so I've always assumed the two drives use CS.

 

[Bug-Creator]

How is this done?

Nowhere.
HDD and DVD are separate cables anyways.
Removing the DVD and retesting with just a HDD/SSD might still be an idea.

A caddy, cables and even working 5.7 and 5.9 logicboards (minor mechanical differences) are in my pile of spare parts. Shipping to the UK might be an issue.

 

[DCBassman]

Removing the DVD and retesting with just a HDD/SSD might still be an idea.

I have tried that; no effect.
There is one thing I've "discovered" over the past 24 hours or so: the existence of that thing called "Apple Partition Map", and I wonder if I might have got things wrong on that front...

 

[Project Alice]

I've ordered a replacement cable. I have a selection of drives, from the original spinner, a newer, larger spinner, and an mSATA adapter. If that works, great. It will still be a desktop machine, as it were, because a new battery for this is simply unobtainable.

How is this done? There are no jumpers on the original drive, so I've always assumed the two drives use CS.

You don't select the jumpers on laptop drives, the cable does. This is true in almost all laptops, and for sure all Apple ones.

Nowhere.
HDD and DVD are separate cables anyways.

Correct, but (unless I'm mistaken here) it is the same controller. IDE needs those jumpers by nature, but we don't set them like in desktop drives. They're already part of the cable. If that part of the cable is shorted out or damaged, it won't read right.
They may be on separate ATA controllers, they are in the PowerMac G4s so it wouldn't surprise me if they are in the PowerBook too. But that would make it even more unlikely to me anyway, that both ATA controllers quit.
If they're different controllers, the cable is still "setting the jumper" as either Master or CS for both.

I have tried that; no effect.
There is one thing I've "discovered" over the past 24 hours or so: the existence of that thing called "Apple Partition Map", and I wonder if I might have got things wrong on that front...

APM is the partition map PowerPC macs need to use to boot Mac OS from. But the computer will recognize any disk, even if its blank. You should still see to disk itself in disk utility and system profiler.
Such as MBR on BIOS\Legacy PCs, and GPT on modern\EFI PCs and Intel Macs (note late 2005 PowerPC Macs will also boot off GPT).
If the disk isn't being recognized at all in disk utility or system profiler, it would probably be a hardware issue.

 

[DCBassman]

If the disk isn't being recognized at all in disk utility or system profiler, it would probably be a hardware issue.

That's exactly it - invisible disk! Anyhow, replacement cable on the way. If it's not that, then I'm stumped.
Another thing I've noticed now I have it running (Tiger 10.4.11) is that if I plug any sort of drive into USB, it will eventually vanish, whereupon the machine scolds me because it wasn't 'put away'!

 

[Project Alice]

That's exactly it - invisible disk! Anyhow, replacement cable on the way. If it's not that, then I'm stumped.
Another thing I've noticed now I have it running (Tiger 10.4.11) is that if I plug any sort of drive into USB, it will eventually vanish, whereupon the machine scolds me because it wasn't 'put away'!

Fingers crossed! Worse case scenario you've got a FireWire only (or ethernet) bootable Mac.
It happens with multiple drives? Normally, I'd say the USB drive may just be flaky. Thumb drives are always flaky, and so are the old micro and mini USB cables. Maybe try cleaning the port or using another port?

 

[Bug-Creator]

will eventually vanish, whereupon the machine scolds me because it wasn't 'put away'!

a) does that happen both on the left and right USB?
b) are your sure all cables are properly seated?
c) is there still life in your battery and if not to do you use a 65 or 45W PSU?
d) is or was there any physical damage on the PowerBook?

You might have a case of a dying logicboard.

 

[weckart]

Nope, these are no longer available anywhere, so that option is closed.

2.5" 12.7mm 2nd BOX Caddy Bay SATA HDD SSD to IDE BD DVD CD RW ODD Tray Adapter ATAPI Laptop Hard Disk Drive

2.5" 12.7mm 2nd BOX Caddy Bay SATA HDD SSD to IDE BD DVD CD RW ODD Tray Adapter ATAPI Laptop Hard Disk Drive - Universal and compatible any brand laptop.

os-store.com

Is this what you are looking for? Having said that, 12.7mm is probably too thick for even the 17" PB. Maybe you could butcher one and just get the connectors and circuit board you need out of it.

 

[Bug-Creator]

12.7mm

is what slim drives measure on the thicker part.
Nothing special bout Apple's drives other than that you would need to remove the face plate (maybe with some extra minor dremel work.

 

[DCBassman]

a) does that happen both on the left and right USB? - yes.
b) are your sure all cables are properly seated? - yes.
c) is there still life in your battery and if not to do you use a 65 or 45W PSU? - no battery, 65W PSU.
d) is or was there any physical damage on the PowerBook? - no, good condition all round.

You might have a case of a dying logicboard. Hope not, still a few things to try.

 

[Bug-Creator]

A 65W charger should be able to deliver stable power without a battery but you might want to reduce consumption.

Reduce screen brightness, turn of kbd light and maybe even remove the non working IDE devices since you also need to run the FW drive.

See the if that reduces USB dropouts.

Also try running the USB sticks through a powered hub.

 

[williamofockham]

I vote for 10.2 as the best os (I've only used 10.0,10.1,10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.6, 10.12, 10.13. 14, and 15 so I've missed a few) thus far. I've got a iBook g4 unfortunately it is running 10.4

 

[Johnstrass2]

Sweet! 10.4 was probably the most stable OS I ever ran. I should fire up the old FrankenG4DA. It's been a while...

Biggest issue with those old Powerbooks is the battery. Not many options these days.

8.6 was my favorite. Just from an ergonomic and aesthetic view

 

[Project Alice]

I vote for 10.2 as the best os (I've only used 10.0,10.1,10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.6, 10.12, 10.13. 14, and 15 so I've missed a few) thus far. I've got a iBook g4 unfortunately it is running 10.4

10.2 is nice but its not the best. Most people consider 10.4 the best, I personally like 10.5 the best (as far as PPC goes).
They're all available here if you would prefer another version. But if you have a 2004 or 2005 iBook G4 it probably won't boot anything lower than 10.3 or 10.4 anyway.
Lately though, if possible depending on the Mac. I tend to run 10.5 and 10.2 instead of 10.5 and 10.4. Most of the same things are achievable in 10.4 and 10.5, but 10.2 opens up a few older options, especially a better classic environment.

Sweet! 10.4 was probably the most stable OS I ever ran. I should fire up the old FrankenG4DA. It's been a while...

10.4 and most stable OS are not words I would ever put together. At least in a mixed environment of PC/Macs and a PC server. Tiger was the most extremely unstable OS I've ever had the displeasure of using for several years in that environment. Panther was far more stable and Leopard was far more robust.

On my home Macs, without having to be integrated with PCs and a server, there wasn't too much issue. But I'm still not a fan.

This is kind of funny to me, and makes you think a little bit. I do think 10.4 is one of the most stable now. It was a rough ride though. I actually had my iBook G3 back when Tiger was still the latest OS, and I had some issues. I had less issues than Windows XP, but it definitely had some. My father's iBook G4 was on 10.3.9, and he never had issues.
Tiger got up to 10.4.11, which is an interestingly high version. In my head this meant it needed a lot of fixes and optimizations. I remember when 10.4.10 came out and thought "huh, wasn't expecting that". Then 10.4.11 came out, after Leopard's release if I'm not mistaken, which also caught me off guard. I was also like 15 or something at the time so take that as you will lmao.
Since 10.4.11 I can't recall having any major issues, even today.
The only thing Tiger does now that pisses me off is when you highlight icons, specifically a group of icons, it'll like.. Only partially highlight some of the icons. It doesn't affect functionality, but its weird, and it does bother me when it happens.

 

[eyoungren]

This is kind of funny to me, and makes you think a little bit. I do think 10.4 is one of the most stable now. It was a rough ride though. I actually had my iBook G3 back when Tiger was still the latest OS, and I had some issues. I had less issues than Windows XP, but it definitely had some. My father's iBook G4 was on 10.3.9, and he never had issues.
Tiger got up to 10.4.11, which is an interestingly high version. In my head this meant it needed a lot of fixes and optimizations. I remember when 10.4.10 came out and thought "huh, wasn't expecting that". Then 10.4.11 came out, after Leopard's release if I'm not mistaken, which also caught me off guard. I was also like 15 or something at the time so take that as you will lmao.
Since 10.4.11 I can't recall having any major issues, even today.
The only thing Tiger does now that pisses me off is when you highlight icons, specifically a group of icons, it'll like.. Only partially highlight some of the icons. It doesn't affect functionality, but its weird, and it does bother me when it happens.

I've run this down before, but it bears repeating I guess…

Anyway, the vast majority of my Tiger use was at work. Everything we needed was on server shares, kept on the PC server (Windows 2003 SBS at the time) and shared to the network via SMB. AFP was not an option, as the only way I could use that was to install FSM (File Services for Macintosh). That presented an OS7/8 era version of AFP that required 8 letter filenames with three letter extensions. In the meantime, it eliminated SMB sharing for any Mac shares entirely.

So, to even connect, I had to have security reduced on the server. Passwords sent in clear text, SMB signing off. Once I worked that out, then I had to be prepared to accept that I could only make two Finder commands at a time and they both had to be similar. For instance, two copy operations to or from the server shares. Or two file deletions. I could not initiate a file copy AND a deletion, or make three Finder commands without getting SBBOD. And once I got SBBOD, that was it. There was no recovery, no waiting for Finder to stop spinning. It was a forced restart every time.

Files didn't want to save over the network from inside programs, and I had issues with overwriting files. It got to such a frustration level that I ultimately ended up installing DAVE on both production Macs running Tiger.

Last but not least, Tiger has an archaic printserver. I didn't find that out until around 2013 when I attempted to share the postscript printers from a G4 running Tiger so that the new MacPro could print correctly. Tiger's printserver would shut down repeatedly after printing a job and the only recourse was a reboot. Bit of a problem when you're running that G4 headless and controlling it through screen sharing.

We eventually installed Leopard on the production Macs and the majority of my network issues went away.

Tiger was pretty stable on my home Macs, which is why I didn't have much issue with installing Tiger Server on my G3 B&W. But, I was never trying to do much at home of what I did at work. And I had mostly Macs, no PC server.

My experience is largely not what everyone else's was/is with Tiger. It's unfortunate, but is what it was.

 

[M.Brane]

10.4.11, and ProTools 7.4 was, and still is probably the most trouble free DAW I've ever used for straight up audio. I have since transitioned to Logic due to the subscription model. The compositional features are great, but the audio workflow is not as good. There are also bugs many of which have been known for years.

Nothing is perfect.