My Frustration with Pages '09

[MacFoxG4]

So one of the things I like to do on my old Macs is creative writing and to do that I have a word processor or in some cases an entire office suite installed on all of my old Macs. On my Sawtooth in particular, I have three office suites installed Microsoft Office 2004, LibreOffice 5, and iWork '09. The latter of which I may get rid of because of some issues I have with it. My Mac collection includes Macs that run Classic Mac OS and OS X, so being able to work with files created on an classic version of Microsoft Word, such as 5.1 or 98, is important to me. This is where Pages '09 falls short. Pages '09 will open up a Word 98 as long as the file is on an Mac OS 9 volume. Classic Word documents on OS X only volumes have a tendency to not be recognized as Word files (messed up resource forks?) and as a result Pages refuses to read them. Word 2004 can get around this problem by changing the options so that Word can open files of any type. This is not possible with Pages. On top of this, Word 5.1 files can not be opened at all on Pages, but can be opened on Word 2004 and Libre Office 5. Another issue occurs if I export a pages file as .doc. I can open the exported file in Word 98 under OS 9, but when I tried to save to it, both Word and OS 9 froze. Not sure if that was a fluke or if this is a common problem with handling Pages exported .doc files under OS 9.

So if I want to create a document in Pages, I will only be able to work with that document under OS X or Windows unless I copy and paste the text into Word 2004 and save a .doc copy of the file there. If I want to work on a document from Word 5.1 in Pages, I have to open it in Word 2004 first and then save it as a newer .doc file so Pages can read it. While I do like using Pages, the compatibility problems with Classic Mac OS are putting me off of it. I can open Word 5.1 and 98 files on Word 2016 on Windows 10 using the same method I do in Word 2004 just fine, but Pages '09 struggles with this. Weird.

Anyone else experience these issues in Pages?

 

[eyoungren]

What happens if you use .rtf?

Assuming Pages can write .rtf.

 

[MacFoxG4]

What happens if you use .rtf?

Assuming Pages can write .rtf.

Just checked and there's no option to save to .rtf. Only options aside from the Pages '09 format are .doc and iWork '08.

 

[eyoungren]

Unfortunately, this may be one of those cases where Apple's version of .doc is different than the MS standard. I wouldn't put it past Apple, considering they've made a regular habit of trying to go their own way and then it takes them years to correct to the actual standard.

 

[bobesch]

My favorite combination is Office2000 (Win), Office2001(os9), Office2004(PPC) and Office2008(PPC/Intel; Tiger > Mojave).
I keep my documents in the Office '97-'04 file format for compatibility and use Office2008 or later for file-conversion of the latest docx/xlsx/pptx-file format.
My os9-machines have dual-boot os9/Tiger to be able to run the "OpenXMLConverter" in order to convert newer files to the Office'97-'04 file format.
Crazy: On my early-2008 15"MBP Office 2000 within Win2k-virtual-machine (like Office:Mac 2001 for os9 or in Classic environment) opens much faster than Office'08 on the Mac/OSX and it's much better adapted to the screen.

 

[MacFoxG4]

My favorite combination is Office2000 (Win), Office2001(os9), Office2004(PPC) and Office2008(PPC/Intel; Tiger > Mojave).
I keep my documents in the Office '97-'04 file format for compatibility and use Office2008 or later for file-conversion of the latest docx/xlsx/pptx-file format.
My os9-machines have dual-boot os9/Tiger to be able to run the "OpenXMLConverter" in order to convert newer files to the Office'97-'04 file format.

Office 2000 was good one, first Microsoft Office I ever used. I tend to use Office 97 for Windows 9x/NT4/2k. I have Office 97 installed in addition to LibreOffice and Office 2016 on Windows 10 and it works. For Windows 3.1 I use Office 4.3. I use Office 98 for OS 9, but I might give 2001 a try someday. Office 2004 is pretty good. I prefer the pre-ribbon versions of Office. I hated using Office 2007. I'm more used to the ribbon interface nowadays, but I still don't like it. That's why I don't have Office 2008 installed. I have OpenXMLConverter installed too.

 

[bobesch]

Office 2000 was good one, first Microsoft Office I ever used. I tend to use Office 97 for Windows 9x/NT4/2k. I have Office 97 installed in addition to LibreOffice and Office 2016 on Windows 10 and it works. For Windows 3.1 I use Office 4.3. I use Office 98 for OS 9, but I might give 2001 a try someday. Office 2004 is pretty good. I prefer the pre-ribbon versions of Office. I hated using Office 2007. I'm more used to the ribbon interface nowadays, but I still don't like it. That's why I don't have Office 2008 installed. I have OpenXMLConverter installed too.

I also do not like the ribbon and Office:mac'04 is my favourite on PPC.
Neither like Office:mac'08, 'cause it does waste so much space, but it's the only one, that supports intel-macs up to Mojave and has no online-activation like Office:mac'11 nor needs a subscription like Office365!
Don't know, if Office2001/os9 has much benefit over Office'97 or disadvantages, but it's so fast, even in Classic-environment, and it offers the best support for the Clamshells lower screen resolution.

 

[Amethyst1]

Crazy: On my early-2008 15"MBP Office 2000 within Win2k-virtual-machine (like Office:Mac 2001 for os9 or in Classic environment) opens much faster than Office'08 on the Mac/OSX and it's much better adapted to the screen.

I've also found 2008 to be slow. Never liked it.

 

[eyoungren]

I've never had much issue with 2008. However, I have had to abandon Entourage 2008 for my primary email. It would seem that my ISP has tweaked something that no longer allows me to connect in that app - despite all my settings being correct (and no, it's not a matter of 2FA).

I do continue to use Word 2008 on my PowerPC Macs though. On my Intel's, I'm using Office 2019 so this allows me to open .docx on both platforms without a problem.

 

[bobesch]

I've never had much issue with 2008. However, I have had to abandon Entourage 2008 for my primary email. It would seem that my ISP has tweaked something that no longer allows me to connect in that app - despite all my settings being correct (and no, it's not a matter of 2FA).
I do continue to use Word 2008 on my PowerPC Macs though. On my Intel's, I'm using Office 2019 so this allows me to open .docx on both platforms without a problem.

Oh, isn't Office'08 able to deal with .docx too?
On my latest Mojave installation I had trouble to run Office'08 or any updates.
Office'08 runs fine on all versions of OSX from Tiger to Mojave-Patch.
I always disable installation of Entourage, Messenger and Document-Connection.
Well, I don't like it that much, but it's a marriage of convenience.

 

[eyoungren]

Oh, isn't Office'08 able to deal with .docx too?
On my latest Mojave installation I had trouble to run Office'08 or any updates.
Office'08 runs fine on my ElCap-To-Mojave-Upgrade (it had been preinstalled on ElCap).
Maybe it's only due to the 12.0 version of my installation-DVD.
I have another box with with a higher version, but it's at a place out of my memory ...
I always disable installation of Entourage and Messenger (and Document-Connection, if possible at all)
Well, I don't like it that much, but it's a marriage of convenience.

2008 will run on my Intels, I just usually prefer the latest version - with the exception of Office 2011 which never really worked well for me.

.docx is backwards compatible to Office 2004, so that's the format I work in. Openable on any version (on Mac) from 2004 on up.

 

[TheShortTimer]

2008 will run on my Intels, I just usually prefer the latest version - with the exception of Office 2011 which never really worked well for me.

2011 has also been problematic for me. At one point I switched to Pages as my primary WP because my footnotes repeatedly vanished in 2011 - which has caused me no end of stress and aggravation when I'm working on academic papers because I'd have to close and reopen the document in order for them to reappear. Insane and impractical when you're ploughing through a 17k word chapter with over 300 footnote citations. 😨

 

[eyoungren]

2011 has also been problematic for me. At one point I switched to Pages as my primary WP because my footnotes repeatedly vanished in 2011 - which has caused me no end of stress and aggravation when I'm working on academic papers because I'd have to close and reopen the document in order for them to reappear. Insane and impractical when you're ploughing through a 17k word chapter with over 300 footnote citations. 😨

Outlook 2011 also liked to disconnect from email accounts for no damn reason. Everything was fine, all credentials and info correct. But nah, disconnect!!! The Mac I used it on most was the MP at my old job. I eventually just abandoned the damn thing and started using Office 2008 again.

 

[MacFoxG4]

Since starting this thread, I performed an SSD upgrade on my Sawtooth. When I reinstalled Leopard, I decided not to use iWork '09 anymore and use Word 2004 full time. While I do like Pages in some ways, the compatibility issues were a deal breaker for me in the end. To convert my existing Pages documents to .doc format, I used LibreOffice 5. I attempted to use LibreOffice 5 on the Sawtooth at first, but I got errors when I tried to save a Pages document as .doc. I then turned to my Windows 10 laptop, which has LibreOffice on it, and successfully performed the conversion there. At least I thought it was successful. One day I was using Word 2004 on my Sawtooth and working on one of these newly converted documents and I got error messages about the flash drive I was using being bad and that I should save onto the SSD instead. I know that the flash drive works properly, but I followed the directions Word gave me and saved the file to the SSD. When I tried to scroll to the top of this newly saved file, the view changed from page layout to normal and a bunch of my words had been replaced with random characters. I closed Word and then reopened the flash drive copy of the file and copy pasted the contents of that file into a new document and saved it to the SSD using a new file name. I then did the same procedure to all of the other converted Pages documents.

I am unsure if this was LibreOffice doing the conversion wrong or if this was a compatibility problem originally caused by Pages when the original Pages document was created?

 

[eyoungren]

I am unsure if this was LibreOffice doing the conversion wrong or if this was a compatibility problem originally caused by Pages when the original Pages document was created?

I would say it's probably LibreOffice dealing with whatever was in Pages during the conversion. The problem is Pages, not the conversion.

A very long time ago when PC was my platform the only word processor I had access to was Microsoft Works. Works has a very incomprehensible and odd format and that format does not like converting to Word very well. You'd think that the two products would have some similarity, but they don't. Word won't even open these natively.

I can always tell one of my old Works documents because somewhere in there is a string of alpha-numeric/ASCII garbage.

 

[bobesch]

I don't have a clue about that odd behavior of Office'04 on Your Sawtooth ...
I would try to keep all my stuff in a single system. Mine is Office 97-04 file format, and files stay interchangable between os9/Office'01, OSX/PPC/Office'04-'08 and OSX/intel/Office'08(Tiger up to Mojave-Patch),
Win2k-Win10/Office2k. I like to run Office2k in a Win2k-VM, which is blazing fast (folders, to access/save files are located outside of the VM on my Mac). And you won't be charged for an annual subscription.
Finally working with Virtual Machines is an option to maintain access to a lot of old stuff (from PalmOS to documents).
I do fancy OpenOffice/LibreOffice and I always have a copy on all my Macs, but I wouldn't recommend working on a critical file both on MS Office and OpenOffice, but stay within either of the Office-suites.
For the purpose of archiving, PDF is my favorite file-format (with DEVONthink - databases are volatile between Tiger and the latest macOS)

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I'm not on a PowerPC mac, but I'm running the still-quite-old OS X 10.9 and have been using iWork '09 (albeit updated to the latest version 9.3) for everything work-related since the pandemic hit.

I have been pleasantly surprised with how nicely iWork '09 plays with Microsoft Office. Every document I've received from colleagues has opened perfectly, and every one I've exported for colleagues has appeared properly on their end.

My coworkers are using recent versions of Office 365 though, not Word 2004, which I suspect might be the difference.

 

[Amethyst1]

I'm running the still-quite-old OS X 10.9 and have been using iWork '09

Woo, another Mavericks-er Still using iWork' 09 for non-work-related tasks too.

 

[MacFoxG4]

I'm not on a PowerPC mac, but I'm running the still-quite-old OS X 10.9 and have been using iWork '09 (albeit updated to the latest version 9.3) for everything work-related since the pandemic hit.

I have been pleasantly surprised with how nicely iWork '09 plays with Microsoft Office. Every document I've received from colleagues has opened perfectly, and every one I've exported for colleagues has appeared properly on their end.

My coworkers are using recent versions of Office 365 though, not Word 2004, which I suspect might be the difference.

It's possible that different versions of Word could produce different results. It's a shame Apple made 9.3 Lion and newer only. Leopard can only update to 9.0.4 and Snow Leopard can only update to 9.1. Tiger is stuck with 9.0.3 (which is the version included on my install DVD). I usually update iWork '09 to 9.0.4 on Leopard.

I recently installed iWork '09 under Snow Leopard on my 2006 MBP and it runs very well. I was experiencing noticeable typing lag in Word 2004, so I installed iWork '09 and updated it to 9.1 out of curiosity. No typing lag in Pages '09. I typed up a document in Pages, made a .doc copy within Pages, and was able to open that document in Word 2004. I edited and saved the document in Word 2004, trying to reproduce the error from my previous post in this thread, but I didn't get the errors from before (no random characters or error messages this time). I have not yet tested to see if a .doc file made from the 9.1 version of iWork '09 will work correctly in classic Mac OS.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

It's a shame Apple made 9.3 Lion and newer only.

Did they add anything past 9.1 that you'd actually want in Snow Leopard? I update primarily to get Lion-esque full screen support. Well, and because there's no reason not to upgrade, but I still can't see much of a difference.

 

[MacFoxG4]

Did they add anything past 9.1 that you'd actually want in Snow Leopard? I update primarily to get Lion-esque full screen support. Well, and because there's no reason not to upgrade, but I still can't see much of a difference.

I was thinking in terms of stability, performance improvements, fixing features that might have been broken or buggy that sort of thing. I guess I was wondering if one of the reasons you had better luck with .doc documents was because you were using 9.3 where as I was using either 9.0.3 or 9.0.4. Like if .doc support was broken in some way under the earlier versions of iWork, but fixed in 9.3.

 

[MacFoxG4]

Well, updating iWork '09 to 9.1 did nothing to help with Pages' .doc file compatibility. Word 98 crashes with a type 1 error when saving a .doc file created by Pages. I am doubtful that 9.3 would make a difference.

From now on, if I create something in Pages I will copy and paste the contents into Microsoft Word and make a .doc file in Word.

 

[sanfrancisofont1984]

Related. Today I noticed that App Store version of Pages/etc. starts to require 10.15 (Catalina). Was able to use it on High Sierra just weeks ago. I guess I'd run '09 then.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

You can always download the last version that's compatible with your OS from your purchased history.

 

[sanfrancisofont1984]

Thanks that worked. What if I also have a Catalina installation though?