My Hunker-Down-And-Wait Plan

[jasnw]

My primary system is a 2011 27” iMac into which I installed extra memory (32GB) and an SSD. I’ve been watching the Mx-chip soap opera, waiting for a system to replace this, and I don’t know how much longer it, and I, will be able to hold out. I’m strongly considering buying a 2020 27” iMac with the plan to hold it for at least 3-4 years to see how things play out. My one concern with this plan is whether Apple will cut the legs out from under the Intel boxes by doing things in macOS that effectively obsoletes them by stranding them at some point. Anyone else thinking along these lines, and what are thoughts about macOS moving beyond Intel in less than five years?

 

[wilberforce]

You pretty much have analyzed it correctly.
If you don't like the current M offerings, the 2020 iMac is a good stopgap (I have one - excellent machine), provided you don't spend too much on it. Something like this:

Refurbished 27-inch iMac 3.8GHz 8-core Intel Core i7 with Retina 5K display

If you can dream it, you can do it on iMac. It’s beautifully designed, incredibly intuitive, and packed with powerful tools that let you take any idea to the next level. And the new 27-inch model elevates the experience in every way, with faster processors and graphics, expanded memory and...

www.apple.com

Because you are probably correct - Intels will get stranded at some point. Figure on the 2020 Intel iMac being somewhat obsolete in about 3 or 4 years.

 

[Puonti]

It really depends on how you define "effectively obsolete". It's highly subjective. If you're just interested in a hot take then my opinion is that yes, Apple will move beyond Intel in less than five years from now.

The long version:

If you look at historical data iMacs released between 2009 and 2013 were officially supported by eight* named OS X / macOS releases, while iMacs released since 2014 were supported by seven*. The 2020 iMac is currently at release four*, so even if Apple was not transitioning away from Intel the data suggests you could expect three more macOS releases to support it. Counting from today that's already well under your five year limit.

* these numbers include the OS X / macOS the iMac was released with, which was the previous year's release

Your definition of "effectively obsolete" might be more stringent; Macs have historically not benefitted from all the new bells and whistles in later OS X / macOS releases, despite official support. The 2020 iMac is already missing some features in macOS Monterey and Ventura and you can expect that number to grow going forward. Where everyone draws the line between "don't need" and "must have" varies, of course.

All of that's been more or less normal operating procedure for Apple with past Macs, though - now we're also dealing with the move away from Intel. Starting with OS X Mountain Lion (2012) Apple has provided three years of security updates for each release, so - assuming they stick with that tradition - whichever year they decide to cut Intel support they will still need to release security updates to the last Intel macOS for two more years. That might incentivize Apple to cut support sooner rather than later; perhaps at the five-release mark rather than seven. This would make next year's macOS 14 the last Intel macOS, and security updates would stop in 2026.

Personally I don't see Apple releasing a macOS with Intel support all the way to 2025, and security updates to 2028.

 

[jasnw]

I can be very forgiving when it comes to defining "effectively obsolete" - I've been on El Capitan for many years now on this iMac. Taking that into account, I guess I pretty much answered my own question. Buy a refurb, put in 3rd party memory, and sit back with the popcorn and watch the continuing saga.

 

[Puonti]

Well, there you go. I was where you're now a year ago, with my mid-2010 iMac. In the end being able to stretch "effectively obsolete" that far put me in a good place for my next Mac.

 

[Fishrrman]

Get a Mac Studio (base model, even), and the display of your choice.

 

[kitKAC]

I can be very forgiving when it comes to defining "effectively obsolete" - I've been on El Capitan for many years now on this iMac. Taking that into account, I guess I pretty much answered my own question. Buy a refurb, put in 3rd party memory, and sit back with the popcorn and watch the continuing saga.

Could you explain this please? Are you worried about something?

 

[jz0309]

I don’t know what you’re waiting for, it’s already very clear that x86 is not getting some of the new features in MacOS, so what is it that you NEED that macOS on Mx does NOT deliver? And what is the “ongoing” saga??
Direction is very clear, for over 2 years now…

 

[hpucker99]

I was in the same boat but with a 2013 iMac that is increasingly rebooting on a random basis. I was running some older 32 bit programs so I was limited on upgrading the OS. I couldn't use the latest versions of Lightoom and Photoshop, so I couldn't use these programs to read the photos from my Olympus/OMDS OM-1 camera. I resorted to using my MacBook Pro for these files.

I came up with 4 options:

1) Upgrade the OS so I could upgrade Lightroom so I could read the photos off the OM-1 and lose the older 32 bit programs.

2) Not do anything and wait for a faster iMac than the 2021 24" M1 iMac. Wasn't sure if this gap is ever going to be filled by an upgraded Mini or an iMac (PRO?).

3) Buy a refurbished 2020 27" iMac and use it for another 3-4 years until the Apple desktop lineup is settled.

4) Buy a Mac Studio and monitor.

I went the 4th option and will keep the 2013 iMac for now. The 2020 Intel iMac would be a fine short term solution but future OSX versions will not be fully implemented on these iMacs. Gave up on the future 27" iMac, not sure if there is room between a M1 PRO/MAX Mini and a Mac Studio.

It's a shame, the 2009 27" Imac is what got me to leave Windows.

 

[pshufd]

I sold my 2014 iMac a month ago after getting a Studio. I still have 2009 and 2010 iMacs. They are both perfectly functional and the 2010 is definitely fine for office stuff and light trading. But I may sell both of them in the future. These old systems can be quite usable if paired with something more recent so that you spread your workload over two or more systems. Something like an old iMac used with an M1 mini (I've seen these for sale used for as low as $350).

You also have the option to run Windows on your Intel Macs if you need a supported operating system.

 

[Guidosan]

My 2013 iMac 27 with upgraded memory won't upgrade past Catalina without workarounds and sadly Apple has stopped Catalina security updates. I went with Option 2 above and got the iMac 24 in Orange with 16GB/2TB for the following reasons:
1. Some of the refurbished iMac 27's were pretty scratched up and finding machines with 2TB+ SSDs is pretty difficult.
2. The length of support for Intel-based Macs is TBD. I didn't want to be in a situation where I was forced to change again in the next 2 - 4 years.
3. Display technology is improving fast. I was hoping that the Studio Monitor had mini-LED backlighting, which will be standard soon.
4. I'm curious whether they will ever release an iMac 27 with an M1 or M2 (or even later processor) and am willing to wait.

Everyone has different requirements. Some of my requirements are not rooted in logic but rather in personal preference. I like so many others was hoping for an upgraded iMac 27 with an Apple processor. I don't require the power of an Ultra or Max chip. This was my wish list:
1. New iMac 27 with Apple processor
2. 32GB or higher memory (I would pay extra for this, no problem)
3. 4TB or higher storage (I would likewise pay extra for this)
4. Thunderbolt 3 or higher ports

Don't care about colors (though they're fun) and camera resolution (1080p is nice, but not required).

 

[Gudi]

What are thoughts about macOS moving beyond Intel in less than five years?

Apple has already moved on from Intel, which is best represented by the fact, that they rather sell no large iMac for a while than keep selling the 27" from 2020. Now you only have 4½ years left before Apple cuts all hardware and software support for Intel. But more importantly Intel iMacs also perform poorly compared to the M1. So it will be dreadful 4½ years. Why not hold out on a base-config 24" iMac for at least 3-4 years and then go bigger again?

 

[pshufd]

Apple has already moved on from Intel, which is best represented by the fact, that they rather sell no large iMac for a while than keep selling the 27" from 2020. Now you only have 4½ years left before Apple cuts all hardware and software support for Intel. But more importantly Intel iMacs also perform poorly compared to the M1. So it will be dreadful 4½ years. Why not hold out on a base-config 24" iMac for at least 3-4 years and then go bigger again?

Apple continues to sell the 27 inch iMac. They just do not sell them from their own stores. My local Costco sells the 2020 iMac 27 inch next to the 2021 iMac 24. But they don't sell the Mac Studio nor the Studio Display. You can also get them at B&H and Best Buy.

 

[kitKAC]

Apple has already moved on from Intel, which is best represented by the fact, that they rather sell no large iMac for a while than keep selling the 27" from 2020. Now you only have 4½ years left before Apple cuts all hardware and software support for Intel. But more importantly Intel iMacs also perform poorly compared to the M1. So it will be dreadful 4½ years. Why not hold out on a base-config 24" iMac for at least 3-4 years and then go bigger again?

The Mac Pro is still on sale from Apple, and contains an Intel Processor. As does the one Intel Mac Mini that they're still selling. They haven't moved on quite as much as you think they have yet.

 

[Arctic Moose]

My one concern with this plan is whether Apple will cut the legs out from under the Intel boxes by doing things in macOS that effectively obsoletes them by stranding them at some point.

The first Intel Macs shipped with 10.4 Tiger, and support for PowerPC was dropped entirely in 10.6 Snow Leopard, just two years later.

The last PowerPC Mac was introduced in 2005, and Leopard, the last macOS release for PowerPC, was released in 2007.

I’ve been watching the Mx-chip soap opera, waiting for a system to replace this

What soap opera?

The Mx machines are fantastic. What is it that concerns you? Do you absolutely require a 27”+ all-in-one?

If not, just get a Studio Display and a Mac mini.

If your desk is against a wall you can just attach the mini to the back of the display and never have to see it, or any of the cables.

 

[Gudi]

The Mac Pro is still on sale from Apple, and contains an Intel Processor. As does the one Intel Mac Mini that they're still selling. They haven't moved on quite as much as you think they have yet.

80% of the Mac market are laptops, 1% are Mac Pros. So it all comes down to how many people still buy the 6-core i5 Mac mini (2018) for $1,099 versus an 8-core M1 Mac mini (2020) for $699 ???

 

[kitKAC]

80% of the Mac market are laptops, 1% are Mac Pros. So it all comes down to how many people still buy the 6-core i5 Mac mini (2018) for $1,099 versus an 8-core M1 Mac mini (2020) for $699 ???

Haven't a clue but I guess enough to still be selling them 2 years after the release of the M1 Mini. Maybe they'll stop selling them when the M2 variant gets released.

 

[Gudi]

Haven't a clue but I guess enough to still be selling them 2 years after the release of the M1 Mini. Maybe they'll stop selling them when the M2 variant gets released.

Some critical software is likely still not updated and so they keep two Intel Macs in the lineup, the cheapest and the most expensive one. But you'd only buy them in a business emergency.

 

[VivienM]

The first Intel Macs shipped with 10.4 Tiger, and support for PowerPC was dropped entirely in 10.6 Snow Leopard, just two years later.

The last PowerPC Mac was introduced in 2005, and Leopard, the last macOS release for PowerPC, was released in 2007.

I think the writing on the wall for Intel is becoming clear (and less aggressive than what they did with PPC, where in all fairness they did the entire transition in 7 months): Ventura dropped support for all the pre-2017 Intel models. I think next year's macOS 14 will drop all the 2017 models (sadly for my 12" MacBook), then macOS 15 will drop the 2018 models, macOS 16 will drop the 2019 models, and macOS 17 (in 2026) will drop the 2020 models, i.e. the last Intels.

And assuming security updates for another year or two, that's roughly alignedish with the 5-year-from-end-of-sale lifecycle policy.

 

[VivienM]

I came up with 4 options:

1) Upgrade the OS so I could upgrade Lightroom so I could read the photos off the OM-1 and lose the older 32 bit programs.

2) Not do anything and wait for a faster iMac than the 2021 24" M1 iMac. Wasn't sure if this gap is ever going to be filled by an upgraded Mini or an iMac (PRO?).

3) Buy a refurbished 2020 27" iMac and use it for another 3-4 years until the Apple desktop lineup is settled.

4) Buy a Mac Studio and monitor.

I went the 4th option and will keep the 2013 iMac for now. The 2020 Intel iMac would be a fine short term solution but future OSX versions will not be fully implemented on these iMacs. Gave up on the future 27" iMac, not sure if there is room between a M1 PRO/MAX Mini and a Mac Studio.

It's a shame, the 2009 27" Imac is what got me to leave Windows.

Interestingly, I was in a similar boat - always wanted a Mac desktop (had a laptop), kept putting it off, figured I would get one after the Apple silicon transition.

Instead, a few weeks after they launched the Mac Studio and the 27" Studio display, I went with your option 3 and bought a low-end (with 10GbE) refurb iMac. Slowest i5 CPU, 16 gigs of RAM (that's what the model with 10GbE available in the refurb store that day had - completely pointless since I always intended to put way way way more RAM in it), 256 SSD (which I could have gotten a 512, but again, there was no 512 with 10GbE in the refurb store that day). Quite a contrast to my 16" M1 Max, eh?

My thinking: it was CAD$1859 + tax + AppleCare. Plus the extra RAM I've put in it. A Studio Display, with the normal glass/stand/etc, is CAD$1999. There aren't really any other options for a retina screen (and sorry, but if I want low-resolution, I'll use my Windows machines, thank you very much). Assuming I wanted at least 64GB of RAM, that puts me at a minimum of CAD$2999 for the Mac studio. And that's for a base model with just the extra RAM. Oh, and I was forgetting the fact that the Mac studio doesn't come with a keyboard/mouse while the refurb iMac came with 'good enough' ones - so, add CAD$229 for the (better) keyboard, CAD$119 for the mouse or CAD$169 for the trackpad, and... that's another $350+ CAD.

So, my Intel iMac cost me ~30-35% of what your option 4 would have cost me. For what I do with it, it's more than good enough. And sure, I expect the last version of macOS for it to come out in 2025 or so, so its life will be less than a Mac studio's, but... if I've spent 30% of the money for a system that lasts me half as long, I figure I'm still ahead a little bit?

(Part of my thinking, too, is that I think the studio display is massively overpriced for what is the same panel that the Retina 5K iMacs have had for the better part of a decade. And there is no other option, for now, other than the pro display XDR)

That being said, I do wish it had touch ID...

 

[Arctic Moose]

(Part of my thinking, too, is that I think the studio display is massively overpriced for what is the same panel that the Retina 5K iMacs have had for the better part of a decade. And there is no other option, for now, other than the pro display XDR)

Fully agree. I would have felt good about buying the Studio Display (without the nonsense overengineering) for $700 less, so that a Mac mini, Studio Display, Magic Mouse and Magic Keyboard would have matched the price of the last iMac.

 

[orionquest]

For what use case??? IF all you are doing it email and browsing the web, you can keep waiting because these tasks can be done on any hardware. If you have a real use case then let us know.

I'm still on a 8 year old Haswell myself. Does everyhting I need with no urge to update. I have a photography business. Having the latest and greatest isn't going to solve any problems other then adding more short term expenses.

 

[Guidosan]

For what use case??? IF all you are doing it email and browsing the web, you can keep waiting because these tasks can be done on any hardware. If you have a real use case then let us know.

I'm still on a 8 year old Haswell myself. Does everyhting I need with no urge to update. I have a photography business. Having the latest and greatest isn't going to solve any problems other then adding more short term expenses.

I lost track of processor names some time ago. Are you still getting MacOS security updates? I'm with you on the fact that the newest hardware won't provide any significant benefits to many of us. If Apple was still providing security updates for Catalina, I would still be using my 2013 machine.

 

[orionquest]

I lost track of processor names some time ago. Are you still getting MacOS security updates? I'm with you on the fact that the newest hardware won't provide any significant benefits to many of us. If Apple was still providing security updates for Catalina, I would still be using my 2013 machine.

I'm on Mojave currently as my MacOS. No security updates, I'm not too worried. But I am planning to move up to Monterey because I have some new software I would like to run and Mojave is too old now. Too bad since it otherwise performs very well.