My issue with the Edition

[jdechko]

First off, I'm not spouting the typical complaints about the Edition line. I think it's reasonably priced, and I know who it's targeted towards. This really is my response to all of those complaints.

I really think Apple made a mistake in announcing the Edition line when it did, though. I think after the Watch had shipped, maybe May/June, they could have announced the special Edition line. Instead of people talking about the watch and what it can do, we have half of the conversation being dominated by how expensive the Edition line is, and it's (mostly) not the tech sites that are complaining, though it is a few. It's a lot of mainstream sites. Average people pick up the fact that the Edition is expensive, and the write off the whole line.

You have people questioning Apple and questioning their motives. People call them greedy for releasing a 10k watch, but they ignore the fact that probably 99.9999% of all Apple Watches sold will go for less than $1,000, and the majority of those will go for less than $400. People suggest that Apple has lost it's way and lost sight of what's important.

The existence of the Edition line takes away from the conversation around the Watch. It turns the discussion, and reframes the whole lineup in a negative light. Even in the past 6 months, a lot of the speculation was negative or had a negative connotation to it. How much will the Edition Cost. People speculated 10k. People lost their minds because they couldn't comprehend why a "gadget" would cost so much.

Like I said, I don't think the Edition as a product was a misstep by Apple, just the way they announced it.

 

[kdarling]

Apparently some insiders at Apple agree with you.

Jony Ive insisted on making a $10,000 Apple Watch over objections from others at Apple

To get his $10,000 Apple Watch, Ive had to fight through the objections of some at Apple who worried about creating divides between regular Apple customers and insanely wealthy Apple customers. Although Apple has always catered to the high-end computing market, its products have always been seen as attainable for most consumers on some level. A $10,000 Apple Watch, however, would create a distinct “upper crust” of Apple clientele that some in the company weren’t comfortable with.

Former Apple SVP of technologies Bob Mansfield told The New Yorker that Ive faced “a lot of resistance” because Apple’s goal has traditionally been to “build products for everybody.”

“But Ive won the argument, and in 2013 the company announced the high-level appointments of Angela Ahrendts, the former C.E.O. of Burberry, and Paul Deneve, the former C.E.O. of the Yves Saint Laurent Group,” The New Yorker reports. “Patrick Pruniaux, from TAG Heuer, a part of the L.V.M.H. luxury conglomerate, was hired last year”

Personally I think it was a smart marketing move. It gets the watch talked about, probably seen on some high profile wrists in the media, and lower price buyers will feel like they're getting a piece of fashion.

 

[jdechko]

Apparently some insiders at Apple agree with you.

Personally I think it was a smart marketing move. It gets the watch talked about, probably seen on some high profile wrists in the media, and lower price buyers will feel like they're getting a piece of fashion.

I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. I do think it's a smart move long term. But then, I'm not one of the ones saying Apple is nuts trying to sell a 10k watch.

I'm saying that I think they should have waited a few more months. Reveal the Sport and Watch lines back in Sept. Launch with Sport and Watch lines. Then in May/June, announce a special Edition line.

 

[Julien]

....Personally I think it was a smart marketing move. It gets the watch talked about, probably seen on some high profile wrists in the media, and lower price buyers will feel like they're getting a piece of fashion.

Every news media and entertainment type shows will be battling it out to be the first to spot a celeb wearing the Edition. Even with Apple's bank you can't buy that kind of publicity. Brilliant marketing by Apple on the Edition.


Which begs the BIG question. Who will be the first celeb pictured with an Edition? Maybe re should have a betting poll.

 

[macpluslaptop]

Apple has become a different company now. It seems like Ives is bored (really, what else can he do to a laptop anyway). I think the watch is ugly, but maybe in future iterations it will have a defibrillator function or other useful rather than showy health aid. That will expand its market. In the meantime, you couldn't pay me to haul it around on my wrist.

 

[kdarling]

every news media and entertainment type shows will be battling it out to be the first to spot a celeb wearing the edition. Even with apple's bank you can't buy that kind of publicity. Brilliant marketing by apple on the edition.

 

[zhenya]

The edition is part of their overall marketing and branding scheme which has to overcome the reputation that smartwatches have as geek accessories. Current offerings are seen as the equivalent of the calculator watch of the 80's. Apple is using the fashion angle to overcome this.

 

[Mrbobb]

Much ado for nothing to me.

High-priced, diamond-encrusted phones been made and except for filling up contents, who cares.

 

[jdechko]

The edition is part of their overall marketing and branding scheme which has to overcome the reputation that smartwatches have as geek accessories. Current offerings are seen as the equivalent of the calculator watch of the 80's. Apple is using the fashion angle to overcome this.

Exactly, but I just have this feeling that the backlash from the fashion angle is/has alienated a good portion of the general public. Most gadget people will at least consider it. But everyone I've talked to only talks about how expensive the edition model is.

(me) "Hey. So what do you think of the new Apple Watch?"
(everyone I've talked to) "It's cool, but I can't believe there's a $10k watch."
(me) "Yeah, but that's the expensive one. You can get one for much cheaper."
(them) "..."

 

[zhenya]

Exactly, but I just have this feeling that the backlash from the fashion angle is/has alienated a good portion of the general public. Most gadget people will at least consider it. But everyone I've talked to only talks about how expensive the edition model is.

They say there is no such thing as bad publicity for a reason. People are talking about it which is more than you can say for any other smartwatch to date.

 

[jdechko]

They say there is no such thing as bad publicity for a reason. People are talking about it which is more than you can say for any other smartwatch to date.

That may be true, but it's usually not the case with Apple products. Traditionally, they've tried to control the narrative tightly. And given the post by kdarling, maybe it seems to be off because of internal tensions surrounding the product.

I'm not saying that Apple is doomed or the watch is going to be a failure. Quite the opposite. I fully expect that it will quickly become the best selling smartwatch. But for every article saying "this is the smartwatch you've been waiting for" or "this is the best smartwatch we've seen" you get one that says "Holy F! The Edition is expensive".

 

[Arran]

Exactly, but I just have this feeling that the backlash from the fashion angle is/has alienated a good portion of the general public.

Agree. Not everyone out here in the real world is in thrall to the fashion industry. Probably very few.

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..."Holy F! The Edition is expensive".

The implication being that Apple thinks it's customers are either superficial or stupid enough to buy it. That's quite offensive.

It wouldn't be such a problem if it was priced more realistically. $10K - $17K is just nuts, for what it is.

 

[douglasf13]

That may be true, but it's usually not the case with Apple products. Traditionally, they've tried to control the narrative tightly. And given the post by kdarling, maybe it seems to be off because of internal tensions surrounding the product.

I'm not saying that Apple is doomed or the watch is going to be a failure. Quite the opposite. I fully expect that it will quickly become the best selling smartwatch. But for every article saying "this is the smartwatch you've been waiting for" or "this is the best smartwatch we've seen" you get one that says "Holy F! The Edition is expensive".

Wearables are a completely different situation than anything that Apple has done in the past, and they have to be treated accordingly. Getting wealthy people and fashionistas on board will go a long way in terms of public acceptance.

 

[zhenya]

That may be true, but it's usually not the case with Apple products. Traditionally, they've tried to control the narrative tightly. And given the post by kdarling, maybe it seems to be off because of internal tensions surrounding the product.

I'm not saying that Apple is doomed or the watch is going to be a failure. Quite the opposite. I fully expect that it will quickly become the best selling smartwatch. But for every article saying "this is the smartwatch you've been waiting for" or "this is the best smartwatch we've seen" you get one that says "Holy F! The Edition is expensive".

Yeah, I don't necessarily agree that it's a good marketing plan, but it seems to be the one they've gone with. I can definitely see the problem of them alienating customers with this. I think that even at $2k for the price ceiling or something like that they would have commanded a position none of their competitors are likely to be able to match, while keeping even the top-end model well in the 'aspirational' range of regular customers.

 

[Arran]

They say there is no such thing as bad publicity for a reason.

Yeah, but they are usually people who have just put their foot in it.

 

[jdechko]

Agree. Not everyone out here in the real world is in thrall to the fashion industry. Probably very few.

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The implication being that Apple thinks it's customers are either superficial or stupid enough to buy it. That's quite offensive.

It wouldn't be such a problem if it was priced more realistically. $10K - $17K is just nuts, for what it is.

How many people will be turned away by the existence of the Edition vs how many will be turned on because of the Edition. Right now, I think the former group is larger based on the conversation.

I don't think anyone of the Watch customers is superficial or stupid for buying a watch, even the edition, and I never said that. The Edition is clearly a limited edition product intended for a completely different market than the Sport and Watch lines. Just look at how Apple has chosen to show it off in Vogue and at various fashion events. The Edition is a high-end fashion watch.

 

[douglasf13]

How many people will be turned away by the existence of the Edition vs how many will be turned on because of the Edition. Right now, I think the former group is larger based on the conversation.

I don't think anyone of the Watch customers is superficial or stupid for buying a watch, even the edition, and I never said that. The Edition is clearly a limited edition product intended for a completely different market than the Sport and Watch lines. Just look at how Apple has chosen to show it off in Vogue and at various fashion events. The Edition is a high-end fashion watch.

Give it a few months. Hardly anyone is going to be turned away by an Edition model priced in the stratosphere. Get one of those things on Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Jennifer Lawrence, etc., and the money will flow in (for better or worse) for the lower priced models, which, btw, were also advertised in magazines like Vogue.

That's kind of the whole point. Do you think Rihanna is going to wear a Moto 360 or whatever? No way. The Apple Watch Edition? Maybe...

 

[sober2ndthought]

How many people will be turned away by the existence of the Edition vs how many will be turned on because of the Edition. Right now, I think the former group is larger based on the conversation.

I don't think anyone of the Watch customers is superficial or stupid for buying a watch, even the edition, and I never said that. The Edition is clearly a limited edition product intended for a completely different market than the Sport and Watch lines. Just look at how Apple has chosen to show it off in Vogue and at various fashion events. The Edition is a high-end fashion watch.

Therein lies the issue, Apple already has an image problem with people assuming that their products are more expensive.

For computers, I have no issue with the MacBook Pro being more expensive than the competing PC. I had my fair share of $500.00 PCs which lasted at most a year and then they became broken beyond repair. That is how I justified buying a MacBook Pro to myself, 4 years later and it still works. There are only a handful of PCs which are build that strong, and they are all professional series.

But $10,000 for a product where if even the smallest thing on the product breaks we have to toss it out and replace it. That is not defensible and it is going to damage Apple brand.

Now the narrative is Apple likes to produce expensive products because people are foolish enough to pay those prices just because there is an Apple logo on it. Yes that narrative exists already, but like I said you can fight back with the above statement so there is a competing and equally valid narrative. Especially because there are well built PCs in the market too, and they cost about as much as Mac.

Before you start discussing Rolex, and other watch manufactures, there is a big difference between a hand craft mechanical watch and what Apple is producing. The handcrafted watch with a little TLC will last a lifetime. The handcraft watch will still be in style when the new watch comes around.

Apple watch is designed to be outdated in year and totally obsolete shortly thereafter (new phones won't be compatible with the Watch).

 

[Piggie]

Give it a few months. Hardly anyone is going to be turned away by an Edition model priced in the stratosphere. Get one of those things on Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Jennifer Lawrence, etc., and the money will flow in (for better or worse) for the lower priced models, which, btw, were also advertised in magazines like Vogue.

That's kind of the whole point. Do you think Rihanna is going to wear a Moto 360 or whatever? No way. The Apple Watch Edition? Maybe...

To be honest, I'd not really expect anyone "famous?" to really want to be seen wearing an Apple watch Edition after a while.

I can see a short novelty, before they notice how it makes them look, and decide to move back to something more individual and stylish just for them.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Do you think Rihanna is going to wear a Moto 360 or whatever? No way. The Apple Watch Edition? Maybe...

Maybe when she is gardening!

I doubt the Apple Watch Edition will impress the really well to do.

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View attachment 534636

Wow! Oprah has not been that thin in years! Maybe never!

 

[douglasf13]

To be honest, I'd not really expect anyone "famous?" to really want to be seen wearing an Apple watch Edition after a while.

I can see a short novelty, before they notice how it makes them look, and decide to move back to something more individual and stylish just for them.

That's the point of the Edition. You're not going to see many people wearing them. Either way, lots of celebs where Rolexes, and millions of those are sold every year or two.

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Maybe when she is gardening!

I doubt the Apple Watch Edition will impress the really well to do.

When you have people like Anna Wintour involved, everyone takes notice.

 

[Piggie]

See, I'd actually feel a bit of a cock wearing an Edition Watch.

Do the American's here know what I mean by that phrase?

It would not give me a feeling of, look at me, see my watch, I'd wear it, covering it up, as I'd guess what people would think, and I'd rather them not think that.

I'd see it as a negative view. But then again, I know Americans have a different take on the obvious display of wealth than the British, so perhaps that's it.

There is classy, and expensive and VERY understated, then there is gold bling, and British with any real class are generally not into the gold bling.
It's more the total opposite.

 

[leenak]

I think the conversation went something like this...

'wait wait, I know how we can increase our profit margins... make a gold watch, I mean why should jewelry companies get all the fun?'

Except jewelry companies have spent decades building up their reputation in the jewelry business. I mean I remember my friend buying a 'Tiffany' necklace when we were in Mexico. Both are sterling silver, but she got hers for 1/5th the price? reason being the name that you pay when you buy from the store, not that they use some special sterling silver.

Now there might be some crazy people that buy the edition watch but I'm betting most people buying it will be because they are betting on it going up in value. I rather invest $10k than buy a watch for that.

 

[kmj2318]

I think the Edition shows just how powerful Jony Ive is at Apple. Any good business reasons are justifications. Probably justifications Jony had to make to Tim. But really, Jony just wants to have designed something made of gold.

I think Tim will do a lot to keep Jony happy. Tim Cook doesn't want to constrain Jony and make him consider leaving. It worth just doing what he want's in these little pet projects to keep him happy. Making a gold version is not going to change the future of the company. Losing Jony probably would.

It makes me wonder how Jobs balanced out Ive. I hate thinking "Steve wouldn't have..." But, there was no gold iPhone till after Steve died, and I wonder how he would have responded to Jony pitching him on a gold iPhone 4 or iPad 2. I don't think Tim Cook would challenge Jony the way Steve would on design.

I think Jobs had a way of moderating Jony's work so they appeal to the masses. Not being moderated, Jony's designs are quite aggressive in what I'd call extravagant simplicity. Jony is an artist, not a businessman. He seems more concerned about his vision than diluting something to have wide appeal. Which is why iOS 7 is so polarizing.

 

[douglasf13]

I think the conversation went something like this...

'wait wait, I know how we can increase our profit margins... make a gold watch, I mean why should jewelry companies get all the fun?'

Except jewelry companies have spent decades building up their reputation in the jewelry business. I mean I remember my friend buying a 'Tiffany' necklace when we were in Mexico. Both are sterling silver, but she got hers for 1/5th the price? reason being the name that you pay when you buy from the store, not that they use some special sterling silver.

Now there might be some crazy people that buy the edition watch but I'm betting most people buying it will be because they are betting on it going up in value. I rather invest $10k than buy a watch for that.

They're not going to sell that many or make much money off of the Edition, as it is a limited edition. It's a halo product to bring in the respect of people in the fashion or high wealth circles of the world.

Now, if things work out, maybe they will start making more and more high end pieces. I'd say it is likely, and it's a wise move.

Jony Ive is one of the world's most famous and revered designers, along with Marc Newson. Why do we think his designs are less valuable than other designers? Have you seen the prices of Newson's Ikepod watches, from which the Apple Watch is likely derived?