HAHAHAH oops mistake, I totally mixed up who was who
! IJ Reilly I totally thought you were xraydoc HAHAHAHA WOW. Yeah 7 years is really good use out of the G4 Cube. I hope I did not affend you or your Cube in anyway .-iGrant
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My new toy - a PowerMac G4 Cube
- Thread starter xraydoc
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HAHAHAH oops mistake, I totally mixed up who was who
! IJ Reilly I totally thought you were xraydoc HAHAHAHA WOW. Yeah 7 years is really good use out of the G4 Cube. I hope I did not affend you or your Cube in anyway .-iGrant
I'm still using my Cube on a daily basis, though I'm thinking about retiring it. Just can't decide what to replace it with.
If you really like the small size of the G4 Cube, the Mac Mini is defiantly the way to go.
You could even mac your own Mac Mini Cube . Here is a link to someone who has already done it:http://www.123macmini.com/macminicube/
-iGrant
As.. stupid as this argument is, I'm going to respond again
Of course it is. It's a well-established fact that my opinion dictates reality. But seriously, the guy said it was priced at Pro levels. Apple had been offering $1500-1600 Power Macs for quite some time... regardless of whether the Cube was slightly more powerful (it had a faster processor, but its drive would have been slower, as would the optical drive), it wasn't a "pro" machine, and was therefore priced in the pro realm (if the lower end), and thus was competing with more practical (if less elegant) machines at the same price margin (keep in mind the Cube also had a $2299 configuration, well into the midrange of apple's Pro line).
The point to which you were responding was pointing out the Power Mac G4's pricepoint coincided with the Cube's, the PMG4 being the Pro line, and expandability being what was separating the two.
It's partial speculation, but also not; Apple's price margins on most of their computers that they sold had been razor-thin... so when they drop a product price by that much money, it's a good bet they've reversed the making money into losing money.
Of course it is. It's a well-established fact that my opinion dictates reality. But seriously, the guy said it was priced at Pro levels. Apple had been offering $1500-1600 Power Macs for quite some time... regardless of whether the Cube was slightly more powerful (it had a faster processor, but its drive would have been slower, as would the optical drive), it wasn't a "pro" machine, and was therefore priced in the pro realm (if the lower end), and thus was competing with more practical (if less elegant) machines at the same price margin (keep in mind the Cube also had a $2299 configuration, well into the midrange of apple's Pro line).
The point to which you were responding was pointing out the Power Mac G4's pricepoint coincided with the Cube's, the PMG4 being the Pro line, and expandability being what was separating the two.
It's partial speculation, but also not; Apple's price margins on most of their computers that they sold had been razor-thin... so when they drop a product price by that much money, it's a good bet they've reversed the making money into losing money.
Firefly2002 we seem to respond to alot of the same threads . . . strange . . .
And I do remember watching a CNN new cast saying that Apple was losing money on the Power Mac G4 Cube.
Xraydoc you might also want to check out www.cubeowner.com they have a great collection of material regarding the Power Mac G4 Cube.
-iGrant
And I do remember watching a CNN new cast saying that Apple was losing money on the Power Mac G4 Cube.
Xraydoc you might also want to check out www.cubeowner.com they have a great collection of material regarding the Power Mac G4 Cube.
-iGrant
I'm not offended, but my Cube is coming over to punch your lights out.
It was a pretty vague argument to begin with, which makes specific responses vulnerable to endless refutation. What's the definition of a "pro" Mac? (No, I'm not interested in debating this point, I'm mentioning it mainly to illustrate the point that the terms of the debate are themselves subject to debate.)
I guess all I can add to this discussion is that a certain folklore has risen up around the Cube, some of which has basis in fact, and the rest speculative, a matter of opinion, and even wrong. The Cube was a product looking for a market, which I think existed, but turned out to be too small to make it worth pursuing. I think a lot of the opinions we heard about the Cube at the time and still hear now are based on personal expectations which probably don't accurately represent Apple's intentions for the product.
But here we are, all these years later, still discussing and debating the Cube. Some of us are still buying and using them! This should tell us a lot about the impact this product had on psyche of the computer market. It sure changes the definition of "failure."
AH HA!!! My G4 Cube has Mac OS X 10.5 so that gives me shielding +5
. . . yeah . . . -iGrant
Received my flashed fanless GeForce 6200 today (from some eBay guys). Installed it and a fan at the base of the cube. Can't remember the brand name as I pulled it out of my home-brew AMD PC's case - its pretty quiet though. Its an 80mm x 25mm fan, so I had to bend up the fan mounts on the Cube's base, but a nice stream of cool air is flowing up and out of the chimney. Used a molex splitter to pull power off the optical's connector rather than snaking a cable up and around to the VRM board.
The video card is connected at present to a ViewSonic 19" widescreen 1440x900 DVI display until I dig out the DVI-to-ADC box I've got somewhere in the basement, though might not since this display is much nicer than the old Apple 17" LCD.
Added a piece of paper under the Cube's touch-sensitive button as suggested in an earlier post - thanks, that helps quite a bit!
Even with the stock 450MHz processor still in place, its amazing how much more responsive OS X 10.4 is with the Core Image/Quartz Extreme video card compared with the original. I'm even debating on whether or not it actually needs a processor upgrade, though I'll probably buckle and buy one in a few weeks.
I just noticed that the Cube's firmware isn't the latest version, so I'll have to connect the old OS 9 hard drive to it via FireWire and download the firmware updater. But first I've got to find a 9.04 to 9.1 updater somewhere. Not sure if stuff that old is still available on Apple's site. But so far, as far as I can tell, I've had no issues with the current firmware plus OS X (boot ROM version 3.3.2f1).
So, current Cube specs are:
• stock 450MHz
• stock CD/DVD-ROM
• 1.5GB RAM (max.; 512MB x 3)
• 160GB hard drive (formatted to 128GB)
• nVidia GeForce 6200 (fanless) video card w/ 256MB VRAM
• 80mm x 25mm base fan
• Bluetooth (Kensington ultraslim)
• USB SoundSticks speakers
• Apple aluminum BT keyboard and BT Mighty Mouse
• 19" ViewSonic 1440x900 display
• MacOS X 10.4.11
Thinking about a processor upgrade in the 1.2-1.4GHz range, but as I said I'll play with it at stock speed for now as its much, much more responsive with the new video card. If I do upgrade the processor, I'll keep it to a single G4 instead of a dual to keep the heat down, keep the power draw on the VRM to a minimum, and to keep the price down. Plus, I doubt I could find any dual boards still for sale anyway.
The video card is connected at present to a ViewSonic 19" widescreen 1440x900 DVI display until I dig out the DVI-to-ADC box I've got somewhere in the basement, though might not since this display is much nicer than the old Apple 17" LCD.
Added a piece of paper under the Cube's touch-sensitive button as suggested in an earlier post - thanks, that helps quite a bit!
Even with the stock 450MHz processor still in place, its amazing how much more responsive OS X 10.4 is with the Core Image/Quartz Extreme video card compared with the original. I'm even debating on whether or not it actually needs a processor upgrade, though I'll probably buckle and buy one in a few weeks.
I just noticed that the Cube's firmware isn't the latest version, so I'll have to connect the old OS 9 hard drive to it via FireWire and download the firmware updater. But first I've got to find a 9.04 to 9.1 updater somewhere. Not sure if stuff that old is still available on Apple's site. But so far, as far as I can tell, I've had no issues with the current firmware plus OS X (boot ROM version 3.3.2f1).
So, current Cube specs are:
• stock 450MHz
• stock CD/DVD-ROM
• 1.5GB RAM (max.; 512MB x 3)
• 160GB hard drive (formatted to 128GB)
• nVidia GeForce 6200 (fanless) video card w/ 256MB VRAM
• 80mm x 25mm base fan
• Bluetooth (Kensington ultraslim)
• USB SoundSticks speakers
• Apple aluminum BT keyboard and BT Mighty Mouse
• 19" ViewSonic 1440x900 display
• MacOS X 10.4.11
Thinking about a processor upgrade in the 1.2-1.4GHz range, but as I said I'll play with it at stock speed for now as its much, much more responsive with the new video card. If I do upgrade the processor, I'll keep it to a single G4 instead of a dual to keep the heat down, keep the power draw on the VRM to a minimum, and to keep the price down. Plus, I doubt I could find any dual boards still for sale anyway.
Keep in mind, the base fan does little/nothing to help cool the video card, as it's out of the airflow path. Only the heat-sink or fan on the card itself will be of much use.
True, but it seems to be a reasonably cool running card. Either way, it wont be running any kind of significant 3D app or game - its simply to drive a monitor and support Quartz Extreme/Core Image.
So I broke down and ordered another round of upgrades for the Cube...
I found a 1.7GHz PPC 7448 processor upgrade card for the Cube. Its got 1MB of L2 cache, unlike the 7447's which had 512KB. And since the '47s and '48s don't support an L3 cache, the 1MB L2 at full processor speed will help tremendously, particularly given the bus-speed limit of 100MHz. It also has a Cube VRM bypass, so it should really ease the power-draw burden on the Cube's VRM.
I'll probably order a PowerLogix Clear PowerCube enclosure for it to improve the cooling and facilitate moving the VRM away from the GeForce 6200 video card. While the video card fits just fine with the VRM in its original position, I should probably move it away from the 65°C heat of the video card anyway simply to prolong the life of the nearly decade-old part.
I've already put an 80 mm x 25 mm fan inside, so at least that part of the deal is good to go.
And to improve airflow and decrease power draw, heat and noise, I've been thinking about replacing the Cube's desktop 3.5" hard drive with a laptop 2.5" HD. I'm not all that concerned about the minor speed hit a 2.5" hard drive will cause, but the power/heat/noise benefits might be substantial. Any thoughts on that?
I'll post some pics and benchmarks when the processor upgrade is installed. For now, here's the Cube in its temporary spot while the project is in-progress.
I found a 1.7GHz PPC 7448 processor upgrade card for the Cube. Its got 1MB of L2 cache, unlike the 7447's which had 512KB. And since the '47s and '48s don't support an L3 cache, the 1MB L2 at full processor speed will help tremendously, particularly given the bus-speed limit of 100MHz. It also has a Cube VRM bypass, so it should really ease the power-draw burden on the Cube's VRM.
I'll probably order a PowerLogix Clear PowerCube enclosure for it to improve the cooling and facilitate moving the VRM away from the GeForce 6200 video card. While the video card fits just fine with the VRM in its original position, I should probably move it away from the 65°C heat of the video card anyway simply to prolong the life of the nearly decade-old part.
I've already put an 80 mm x 25 mm fan inside, so at least that part of the deal is good to go.
And to improve airflow and decrease power draw, heat and noise, I've been thinking about replacing the Cube's desktop 3.5" hard drive with a laptop 2.5" HD. I'm not all that concerned about the minor speed hit a 2.5" hard drive will cause, but the power/heat/noise benefits might be substantial. Any thoughts on that?
I'll post some pics and benchmarks when the processor upgrade is installed. For now, here's the Cube in its temporary spot while the project is in-progress.
Let us know how that 7448 CPU upgrade works out. Those processors had a lot of problems when they first came out -- enough that I opted for a 7447 instead when I upgraded. This could have changed afterwards, I don't know.
As a Cube purest (more or less), I can't approve of those external enclosures. Kind of spoils the Cube mojo, don't you think?
As for the hard drive, I noticed a real improvement in performance in my Cube when I replaced the stock, 5,400 RPM drive with a 7,200 RPM Seagate Barracuda. I would not go backwards, if I were you. The Seagate is very quiet, much quieter than the original Western Digital drive. You probably won't hear this drive over the fan.
Alas, my Cube is now in semi-retirement since I bought the iMac. After nearly eight years of service it deserves a little rest.
As a Cube purest (more or less), I can't approve of those external enclosures. Kind of spoils the Cube mojo, don't you think?
As for the hard drive, I noticed a real improvement in performance in my Cube when I replaced the stock, 5,400 RPM drive with a 7,200 RPM Seagate Barracuda. I would not go backwards, if I were you. The Seagate is very quiet, much quieter than the original Western Digital drive. You probably won't hear this drive over the fan.
Alas, my Cube is now in semi-retirement since I bought the iMac. After nearly eight years of service it deserves a little rest.
I have a 160GB 7200 RPM Western Digital hard drive in there now. It makes very little noise, and the speed is fine. But I'm thinking with the other hot, power-eating upgrades in the machine (video card which adds heat and draws power from the VRM, and the processor upgrade which will add heat though bypassing the VRM), I thought a notebook-class HD might offer some heat/power savings while improving airflow through the core of the machine.
I think you might be over-planning somewhat. I ran an 80GB drive in my Cube for years with an upgraded CPU and video card, no VRM bypass, day in day out, with no issues. The main thermal issues with the Cube are the video card, which has to be cooled on the card itself, and CPU upgrades, which can be cooled adequately with the base fan.
Probably right. On the one hand, I'm having fun cranking up the Cube to go way beyond what it was ever originally designed to do. On the other hand, I don't want to see it go up in smoke, either. I don't want to be left with an expensive kleenex box holder (but a very cool kleenex box holder at that).
Keep in mind, used Cubes aren't going for much these days. One was offered here a few days ago for $75.00, and I don't know if it sold at that price. If was planning on using mine on a regular basis in the future I'd be tempted to pick up an old beater just for the parts.
Well, there's good news and bad news on the Cube project...
The good news is the PowerLogix 1.7GHz PPC7448 w/ Cube VRM bypass arrived from OWC right on time, was successfully installed, and appears to be working perfectly (posting from the Cube presently). The machine is actually really fast now - boots in less than 30 seconds (haven't timed it yet), opens apps in just a bounce or two, and is quite Teh Snappy.
The bad news is that I think I damaged the GeForce 6200 that I had been using; the machine wont boot with the card installed. Boots fine with the original Rage 128, but no go with the GF 6200. I think I might have rocked the heat sink when removing the card, which could have damaged the chip underneath. I'll try it in my Gigabit Ethernet G4 tower later on, but at least that's the easier/cheaper part to replace. As long as its not the processor, VRM or the motherboard, I'm happy.
I can't check temps as the processor either doesn't have a temp diode or it isn't supported on some combination of hardware/software, but I do not feel any unusually warm air coming out of the top of the machine - for what that's worth (yes, there's a fan).
Here's a couple of pics...
I'll have to decide what to do about the video card. Presuming the card doesn't work in the G4 tower, then I'll look at replacing it, ideally with something a bit more, uh, robust. If it does work in the other computer, well, then I've got some major troubleshooting to do on the Cube. Not sure why it wouldn't boot since everything else appears to be running just fine, so likely the card is dead.
As quick as the machine seems now, it should feel even faster when I get a proper video card back in there. With the Rage 128, the CPU is having to do all the rendering (like the Dock scrub effect, etc). The Dock effects were unbearably slow on this video card with the original 450MHz processor, but was very responsive with the GF 6200 plus the original processor. With the new processor, the effect is essentially the same as it was with the better card and slower processor (though its still stealing processor cycles from whatever else is going on). It should be really great with a proper video card.
I'll continue to post updates... But for now, the Cube is running remarkably fast for an 8 year old Mac.
The good news is the PowerLogix 1.7GHz PPC7448 w/ Cube VRM bypass arrived from OWC right on time, was successfully installed, and appears to be working perfectly (posting from the Cube presently). The machine is actually really fast now - boots in less than 30 seconds (haven't timed it yet), opens apps in just a bounce or two, and is quite Teh Snappy.
The bad news is that I think I damaged the GeForce 6200 that I had been using; the machine wont boot with the card installed. Boots fine with the original Rage 128, but no go with the GF 6200. I think I might have rocked the heat sink when removing the card, which could have damaged the chip underneath. I'll try it in my Gigabit Ethernet G4 tower later on, but at least that's the easier/cheaper part to replace. As long as its not the processor, VRM or the motherboard, I'm happy.
I can't check temps as the processor either doesn't have a temp diode or it isn't supported on some combination of hardware/software, but I do not feel any unusually warm air coming out of the top of the machine - for what that's worth (yes, there's a fan).
Here's a couple of pics...
I'll have to decide what to do about the video card. Presuming the card doesn't work in the G4 tower, then I'll look at replacing it, ideally with something a bit more, uh, robust. If it does work in the other computer, well, then I've got some major troubleshooting to do on the Cube. Not sure why it wouldn't boot since everything else appears to be running just fine, so likely the card is dead.
As quick as the machine seems now, it should feel even faster when I get a proper video card back in there. With the Rage 128, the CPU is having to do all the rendering (like the Dock scrub effect, etc). The Dock effects were unbearably slow on this video card with the original 450MHz processor, but was very responsive with the GF 6200 plus the original processor. With the new processor, the effect is essentially the same as it was with the better card and slower processor (though its still stealing processor cycles from whatever else is going on). It should be really great with a proper video card.
I'll continue to post updates... But for now, the Cube is running remarkably fast for an 8 year old Mac.
Sorry for yet another post, but yippie, the GeForce 6200 is working (again).
Booted fine in the Gigabit Ethernet, so I had no idea what went wrong, but I reinstalled it yet again back in the Cube and it booted normally. Must have been some odd PRAM somethin' or a weird resolution set in the OS, but I'm back in business. Yahoo! Color me happy.
I'll upgrade this thing to Leopard this weekend.
So, current specs are:
1.7GHz 7448 (1MB L2)
1.5GB RAM
160GB HD
GeForce 6200 (256MB)
Stock DVD-ROM
Apple 20" cinema display (current aluminum model)
I'll post some nice pics when I get the desk all cleaned off.
Quick Xbench scores:
450MHz PPC7400
CPU test: 27.37
Thread test: 19.58
Memory test: 20.84
1.7GHz PPC7448 (1MB L2 cache)
CPU test: 73.77
Thread test: 70.05
Memory test: 25.27
Booted fine in the Gigabit Ethernet, so I had no idea what went wrong, but I reinstalled it yet again back in the Cube and it booted normally. Must have been some odd PRAM somethin' or a weird resolution set in the OS, but I'm back in business. Yahoo! Color me happy.
I'll upgrade this thing to Leopard this weekend.
So, current specs are:
1.7GHz 7448 (1MB L2)
1.5GB RAM
160GB HD
GeForce 6200 (256MB)
Stock DVD-ROM
Apple 20" cinema display (current aluminum model)
I'll post some nice pics when I get the desk all cleaned off.
Quick Xbench scores:
450MHz PPC7400
CPU test: 27.37
Thread test: 19.58
Memory test: 20.84
1.7GHz PPC7448 (1MB L2 cache)
CPU test: 73.77
Thread test: 70.05
Memory test: 25.27