How do you find the sound of the NAS and drives? Is it in a server closet?
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My Newbie Experience Getting Into NAS
- Thread starter drrich2
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Two drives only?! Should be negligible noise. The chassis cooling fan could likely make more noise. 🤣
NAS drives commonly use 5400 RPM (for lower power/heat) or 7200 RPM (for better performance), with higher RPMs like 10k/15k for enterprise, though network bottlenecks often limit real-world speed more than drive RPM for typical home/small business NAS. 5400 RPM drives offer quieter, cooler, more efficient storage, while 7200 RPM provides faster data access, especially for demanding tasks.
Seagate IronWolf NAS drives come in different speed tiers, with standard models often featuring
5900 RPM for efficiency in lower capacities, while higher-capacity and performance-focused IronWolf Pro drives typically run at a faster 7200 RPM, offering better throughput for heavy workloads, though some specific lower-end IronWolf drives also offer 7200 RPM for balanced performance.
Of course the cases are metal frame hung with plastic, no real sound insulation, Synology drive enclosures are
not specifically engineered for advanced noise mitigation; while some basic anti-vibration features might be included. The primary focus of the enclosure design is typically on cooling and airflow.
NAS drives commonly use 5400 RPM (for lower power/heat) or 7200 RPM (for better performance), with higher RPMs like 10k/15k for enterprise, though network bottlenecks often limit real-world speed more than drive RPM for typical home/small business NAS. 5400 RPM drives offer quieter, cooler, more efficient storage, while 7200 RPM provides faster data access, especially for demanding tasks.
Seagate IronWolf NAS drives come in different speed tiers, with standard models often featuring
5900 RPM for efficiency in lower capacities, while higher-capacity and performance-focused IronWolf Pro drives typically run at a faster 7200 RPM, offering better throughput for heavy workloads, though some specific lower-end IronWolf drives also offer 7200 RPM for balanced performance.
Of course the cases are metal frame hung with plastic, no real sound insulation, Synology drive enclosures are
not specifically engineered for advanced noise mitigation; while some basic anti-vibration features might be included. The primary focus of the enclosure design is typically on cooling and airflow.
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Couple of links of interest from YouTube:
VirtualizationHowTo -
Discusses some things where self-hosting didn't prove worthwhile to him (1st topic was e-mail, which I suspect is one of the main things some NAS-curious people may be interested in the pro.s and con.s of).
NASCompares -
He mentions also having a video arguing the reverse position.
VirtualizationHowTo -
Things I Stopped Self-Hosting (And Why Cloud Won in My Home Lab)
Discusses some things where self-hosting didn't prove worthwhile to him (1st topic was e-mail, which I suspect is one of the main things some NAS-curious people may be interested in the pro.s and con.s of).
NASCompares -
Why People Prefer Turnkey NAS vs TrueNAS, UnRAID and More
He mentions also having a video arguing the reverse position.
Runaway Train
macrumors regular
I do have the NAS in a separate room tucked away under a staircase. I am running a long Ethernet cable to do the connecting. This was a « mandatory » step that was insisted by …..my wife 🙂
DIY NAS is too complicated and don't trust myself in self-managing plus not sure if I can trust all these small companies long term. Same goes with the 'bigger' NAS brands, they're still not super well known.
Honestly just wish Apple TimeCapsule was just released again. It was a true plug/forget system. Plus it has the router which I still use to the day.
I am still not clear on what hardware setup to buy to replace the TimeCapsule. It doesn't seem there is a defacto go-to hardware setup to replace the backup + router functionality. Any options?
Honestly just wish Apple TimeCapsule was just released again. It was a true plug/forget system. Plus it has the router which I still use to the day.
I am still not clear on what hardware setup to buy to replace the TimeCapsule. It doesn't seem there is a defacto go-to hardware setup to replace the backup + router functionality. Any options?
throAU
macrumors G4
I found trueNAS friendlier than Synology to be honest getting to learn it.
The beauty of TrueNAS and ZFS is the drives can be popped into any system that can have ZFS installed for recovery purposes if your NAS hardware goes belly up. ZFS also doesn't care what order or where the drives are plugged in, it will read the identifiers to set them up in the pool properly.
Some routers have a USB port, and it's my understanding an external USB drive can be plugged into that, and made accessible to devices that can use the router. Would that work for what you want it to do?
That also makes sense if possible? Never looked into this. Not sure what router to get? I already have a Mesh Network so I don't need these routers with massive antennas.
What's the point of the NAS then if I can just plug an external drive - is it just redundancy with multiple drives?
keksikuningas
macrumors 6502
USB is not as reliable of a connection. Could randomly disconnect, external factors could also affect it, like accidentally bumping into the shelf or whatever the router with the drive is on.
NAS offers much more refined control and functionality. If you have multiple drives, you can set them in a RAID which would protect from drive failure and would pool the drives together increasing writing and reading speeds.
my minimal understanding of the subject
conclusions are correct.
NAS by definition is network attached storage. Hooking a drive up to a router that supports it would achieve the same result and that storage is considered ‘network attached’.
That said, a purpose built NAS will be much more performant and flexible. Embedded/off the shelf routers have limited processing power and memory limitations. Its primary function is routing, network address translation, firewalling and in alot of cases managing an embedded access point (WiFi).
So, while you can share a disk from some models, its more of a bullet point on a feature list vs a reason to buy, unless you only occasionally use it for documents and backups. If the router you have now serves your needs, you probably would better benefit from a low cost gigabit switch instead.
As far as replacing the time capsule, unfortunately nothing on the horizon exaxtly replicates a Time Machine. There are other ways to back uo your systems or important files to a NAS, but not with integration into MacOS.
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throAU
macrumors G4
Depends how you built your machine. I have multiple desktop machines in my office and the only one I can hear is the NAS due to the 5400 RPM drives in it.
I wouldn't call it loud, but it's certainly not SILENT either. It has 3 chassis fans plus a CPU fan, don't hear any of those.
From YouTube reviewer Jimmy Tries World:
My Mac Is A Home Server Now And Yours Can Be One Too
This recent video delves into using an old Mac to provide some of the same server functions many people use a NAS for, and he discussed some specific app.s of interest.
I'm posting this because some may come to this thread curious about a NAS, but unsure whether they want to spend a few hundred to well over a grand, and may discover turning an old computer into a server meets their needs, or perhaps set this up to get a practical sense of what having a NAS might be like for them.
I like this guy's content; topical, engaging and energetic manner and covers a topic thoroughly in a conversational, fairly easy to follow way.
My Mac Is A Home Server Now And Yours Can Be One Too
This recent video delves into using an old Mac to provide some of the same server functions many people use a NAS for, and he discussed some specific app.s of interest.
I'm posting this because some may come to this thread curious about a NAS, but unsure whether they want to spend a few hundred to well over a grand, and may discover turning an old computer into a server meets their needs, or perhaps set this up to get a practical sense of what having a NAS might be like for them.
I like this guy's content; topical, engaging and energetic manner and covers a topic thoroughly in a conversational, fairly easy to follow way.
kamikazeeMC
macrumors 6502a
I only have a small amout of personal data currently 67 GB + 79 GB of FLAC music now I went back to local playback. Basic needs of being access from my desktop, phone (via WireGuard when outside) and WiiM streamer. Link between desktop and NAS is 2.5G and only WiFi5 for phone (only transfer images and audio).
I had a CWWK X85-P5 N100 mini PC I previously used as a pfSense router laying around. Added a 2 TB 990 Pro SSD and put minimal Rocky Linux with Samba shares. A copy lives on this, my desktop and two external SSDs, really need to make another offsite copy.
Currently manually syncing backups as my data doesn't grow fast. It's mainly pictures which I take with my phone or camera (transfered to my phone). They are moved to a temp download folder on NAS where I cull and rename, then copy to personal data folder on desktop and NAS. Another copy sits in a 'to backup' folder on my desktop untill I copy to the external SSDs. The file structure is mirrored accross all copies, one day I'll automate this.
I had a CWWK X85-P5 N100 mini PC I previously used as a pfSense router laying around. Added a 2 TB 990 Pro SSD and put minimal Rocky Linux with Samba shares. A copy lives on this, my desktop and two external SSDs, really need to make another offsite copy.
Currently manually syncing backups as my data doesn't grow fast. It's mainly pictures which I take with my phone or camera (transfered to my phone). They are moved to a temp download folder on NAS where I cull and rename, then copy to personal data folder on desktop and NAS. Another copy sits in a 'to backup' folder on my desktop untill I copy to the external SSDs. The file structure is mirrored accross all copies, one day I'll automate this.
NASCompares has an interesting roughly 15 minute YouTube presentation:
HOW LONG SHOULD YOU EXPECT A NAS TO LAST? (RAID Room)
These guys discuss the issue and considering how expensive these things are to set up and populate with drives (never mind the ridiculously jacked up prices for SSDs and even HDDs due to A.I. industry demand), it's a valid concern.
It's a complex topic - they discuss how video standards have grown (e.g.: 720, 1080, 4K) and the hardware to support that changed, and ethernet speeds (e.g.: 1, 2.5, 5 and 10-Gbps), so even if your NAS doesn't 'break,' you may want upgraded capability later. And the more use you demand of it, the faster you wear out those drives.
Spoiler: an estimate given was for simple file storage backup NAS 10 years, if some video editing on a daily basis and you're pushing it to the limits probably 5 years.
Of course, whether you use SSDs and/or HDDs recommended for NAS I suppose might bear on it, too.
In other words, no clear easy answers, but food for thought. A NAS system can run substantial money, so lifespan needs to be considered.
One thing I question late in the video about things being made for obsolescence. From what I've read elsewhere, the legendary longevity of household appliances in the distant past was often based on anecdotal examples, not the averages, simpler devices with fewer features so there was less to go wrong, and it's often cheaper to make things now that are less repairable, so there are tradeoffs.
HOW LONG SHOULD YOU EXPECT A NAS TO LAST? (RAID Room)
These guys discuss the issue and considering how expensive these things are to set up and populate with drives (never mind the ridiculously jacked up prices for SSDs and even HDDs due to A.I. industry demand), it's a valid concern.
It's a complex topic - they discuss how video standards have grown (e.g.: 720, 1080, 4K) and the hardware to support that changed, and ethernet speeds (e.g.: 1, 2.5, 5 and 10-Gbps), so even if your NAS doesn't 'break,' you may want upgraded capability later. And the more use you demand of it, the faster you wear out those drives.
Spoiler: an estimate given was for simple file storage backup NAS 10 years, if some video editing on a daily basis and you're pushing it to the limits probably 5 years.
Of course, whether you use SSDs and/or HDDs recommended for NAS I suppose might bear on it, too.
In other words, no clear easy answers, but food for thought. A NAS system can run substantial money, so lifespan needs to be considered.
One thing I question late in the video about things being made for obsolescence. From what I've read elsewhere, the legendary longevity of household appliances in the distant past was often based on anecdotal examples, not the averages, simpler devices with fewer features so there was less to go wrong, and it's often cheaper to make things now that are less repairable, so there are tradeoffs.
The NAS can last a long time - keep it in a well-ventilated area, away from dirt and dust. It's also a good idea to connect the NAS to an uninterruptible power supply with voltage support (i.e., protecting from line noise, voltage sags and spikes).
The hard drives inside may not last as long - invest in NAS and enterprise drives instead of consumer-grade hard drives (e.g., Seagate Exos and IronWolf Pro, WD Gold/HGST, Toshiba MG over Barracuda and WD Blue). Newer helium-filled drives may last longer as they have less heat and friction.
Backblaze's latest report shows relatively consistent failure rates in their consumer hard drives, generally related to drive age (they've been in business since 2007):
https://www.storagereview.com/news/...o-1-36-as-high-capacity-drives-dominate-fleet
The hard drives inside may not last as long - invest in NAS and enterprise drives instead of consumer-grade hard drives (e.g., Seagate Exos and IronWolf Pro, WD Gold/HGST, Toshiba MG over Barracuda and WD Blue). Newer helium-filled drives may last longer as they have less heat and friction.
Backblaze's latest report shows relatively consistent failure rates in their consumer hard drives, generally related to drive age (they've been in business since 2007):
https://www.storagereview.com/news/...o-1-36-as-high-capacity-drives-dominate-fleet
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NASCompares has a video short out that's useful for supplying some balance. While I chose a Terramaster product that happened to hit the 'sweet spot' I was after, I was impressed with UGreen and would've liked to buy one of theirs, and based on reviews and product features and pricing wrote quite positively about them in my write-up.
None of that has changed.
That said, they are a fairly recent entrant to the NAS market (around 2 years or so?), and while they've reportedly come a long way, their software ecosystem hasn't had as much time to mature as some longterm market players.
This sounded like a nice breakdown of things someone considering a UGreen might like to know.
P.S.: I suspect the title is hyperbole, or a result of this short maybe being taken out of a larger presentation (such as maybe they had a list of reasons you should vs. reasons you shouldn't?).
None of that has changed.
That said, they are a fairly recent entrant to the NAS market (around 2 years or so?), and while they've reportedly come a long way, their software ecosystem hasn't had as much time to mature as some longterm market players.
This sounded like a nice breakdown of things someone considering a UGreen might like to know.
P.S.: I suspect the title is hyperbole, or a result of this short maybe being taken out of a larger presentation (such as maybe they had a list of reasons you should vs. reasons you shouldn't?).
lol thats one strat for getting likes on youtube! make two videos with opposite viewpoints!
I wouldn’t be storing anything on a drobo that you can’t afford to lose, equally when you do get another medium (if you haven’t already) it’ll be a long switching process you’ll find as old drives inserted to a new nas/das wipes them, so you’ll need to factor that into your cost & time.
As to your question about swapping disk packs about, am honestly not sure but I suspect with any other solution you’ll run the risk of something going wrong & reformatting inadvertently.
I have been pleased with Terra Master DAS enclosures and their F4 SSD NAS. I have D8 Hybrid DAS connected to the F4 SSD NAS. The D8 has four 10TB hard drives. The only noise I hear is from when the hard drives are reading or writing and it isn't very loud at all. I don't hear the fans on either unit. I had originally bought the D8 H to use as a DAS connected to my Mac mini and decided to connect it to the F4 SSD NAS instead.
I did upgrade the RAM in my F4 SSD to 32 GB. I bought it before the price increases last fall. It runs smoothly and I haven't seen the CPU or device temps go over 50 degrees celsius. Granted I am not running a bunch of virtual machines or Docker containers either.
I have found that Terra Master's TNAS 6 to be pretty simple for new NAS users. It might not be as polished or feature rich as other NAS OS's but it works fine and is easy to setup. And if you don't like the TNAS OS, you can always install a third party NAS OS on Terra Master devices. It has worked seamlessly between my Mac's, iPad, Windows, and Linux computers.
A few years ago I had bought an OWC Express 4M2 enclosure (the older black version) for my 2018 Mac mini. It worked fine as a DAS. I have since replaced it with a Terra Master D4 enclosure. Having both connected to my M4 Mac mini Thunderbolt 4 port, the Terra Master D4 is definitely faster. And it was a noticeable difference.
I did upgrade the RAM in my F4 SSD to 32 GB. I bought it before the price increases last fall. It runs smoothly and I haven't seen the CPU or device temps go over 50 degrees celsius. Granted I am not running a bunch of virtual machines or Docker containers either.
I have found that Terra Master's TNAS 6 to be pretty simple for new NAS users. It might not be as polished or feature rich as other NAS OS's but it works fine and is easy to setup. And if you don't like the TNAS OS, you can always install a third party NAS OS on Terra Master devices. It has worked seamlessly between my Mac's, iPad, Windows, and Linux computers.
A few years ago I had bought an OWC Express 4M2 enclosure (the older black version) for my 2018 Mac mini. It worked fine as a DAS. I have since replaced it with a Terra Master D4 enclosure. Having both connected to my M4 Mac mini Thunderbolt 4 port, the Terra Master D4 is definitely faster. And it was a noticeable difference.
With MacOS 27 on the horizon, my trusted Time Machine is nearing its end of life. I wish Apply just made Time Machines again but with their Services strategy and push for iCloud, forget it.
I need to replace this hardware for both 1) set-and-forget backups and 2) as a network router.
Is there a clear winner of what to buy? I could buy a headless Mac Mini but seems more expensive as I'd need a 2TB option. Seems it's either buying a NAS Synology or Ugreen + a separate router. Any other ideas please?
I need to replace this hardware for both 1) set-and-forget backups and 2) as a network router.
Is there a clear winner of what to buy? I could buy a headless Mac Mini but seems more expensive as I'd need a 2TB option. Seems it's either buying a NAS Synology or Ugreen + a separate router. Any other ideas please?
Timemachine can work quite well on a NAS, for example Synology generally works well (the OS is simple and polished).
Ugreen has faster performance, but the UI is less polished and it might have more issues.
Qnap is rather established like Synology, but more the option for somebody that wants tons of features. This is what I have now, but my next one will likely be Synology (simpler, still has all the features you will need).
Pretty sure a separate router and NAS is the right option unless you can find a router that supports timemachine with an external drive and don’t mind that it will probably be slow.
Ugreen has faster performance, but the UI is less polished and it might have more issues.
Qnap is rather established like Synology, but more the option for somebody that wants tons of features. This is what I have now, but my next one will likely be Synology (simpler, still has all the features you will need).
Pretty sure a separate router and NAS is the right option unless you can find a router that supports timemachine with an external drive and don’t mind that it will probably be slow.
I have Time Machine running on a Synology DS218+. There are clear instructions online on how to set it up. Once set up, it runs completely unattended. I have it running once every 24 hours, and that seems to be plenty for me.
I'd be interested in suggestions on this topic as I look for a replacement for my long-serving Time Capsule before upgrading to Golden Gate in the fall. Here's my set-up...
About 18 months ago, I installed a rack-mounted Ubiquiti Unifi Dream Machine, WiFi 7 access points, and cameras. (At that point, I switched off the Time Capsule's wifi and router and use it only for Time Machine backups... to an attached USB drive as the internal drive started to be unreliable.)
Looking to replace / add:
The Unifi UNAS Pro 4 is an option and seems price competitive. My main reluctance is, all things being equal, that it wouldn't handle the web hosting (and I haven't researched if it would host the Sonos library). (And other than the obsolete iMac, I don't have a spare desktop machine to use for hosting and Sonos.)
I would lean toward Synology, but I'm not eager to jump at a 4+ year old model (the RS422+ or maybe RS822+), given how underwhelming even their newly released hardware is.
Tangentially, anyone have any insight into whether storage vendors are ramping up production to meet demand and HDD prices might ease in the next 6-12 months? (For instance, the same HDD I bought 2 yrs ago for the camera storage is now 2.2x the price.)
Thanks in advance!
About 18 months ago, I installed a rack-mounted Ubiquiti Unifi Dream Machine, WiFi 7 access points, and cameras. (At that point, I switched off the Time Capsule's wifi and router and use it only for Time Machine backups... to an attached USB drive as the internal drive started to be unreliable.)
Looking to replace / add:
- NAS or other solution for Time Machine backups
- Storage of a Sonos music library (currently housed on a 2011 iMac that's stuck on 10.13.6 and really on its last legs).
- Web hosting for a couple of sites - not yet in existence
The Unifi UNAS Pro 4 is an option and seems price competitive. My main reluctance is, all things being equal, that it wouldn't handle the web hosting (and I haven't researched if it would host the Sonos library). (And other than the obsolete iMac, I don't have a spare desktop machine to use for hosting and Sonos.)
I would lean toward Synology, but I'm not eager to jump at a 4+ year old model (the RS422+ or maybe RS822+), given how underwhelming even their newly released hardware is.
Tangentially, anyone have any insight into whether storage vendors are ramping up production to meet demand and HDD prices might ease in the next 6-12 months? (For instance, the same HDD I bought 2 yrs ago for the camera storage is now 2.2x the price.)
Thanks in advance!