My Next MacBook Pro

[pcdtech]

I have a 2018 MBP with Touch Bar that I’m hoping to upgrade. It’s certainly fast enough, but I’m looking to dump the butterfly keyboard.

I’m trying to time my next laptop purchase, and have decided to at least wait until WWDC before making a decision. Depending on what is announced at WWDC (ARM announcement or no ARM announcement), I may down/side-grade to the base 13 MBP 1.4GHz.

A few questions for the forum:
(1) Do you think I’ll experience any noticeable lag between the 2.3 GHz 2018 MBP and the 1.4GHz 2020 MBP Base?
(2) When do you think that an ARM processor Apple laptop will be worth buying, after the kinks are worked out? 2022?
(3) When do you think an ARM processor will reach the MBP? 2023?

I’m trying to see if I should move over to the 1.4GHz MBP 13 now, if it’s powerful enough, or (a) wait for next year’s 14” MBP, (b) wait for an ARM Mac that’s worth buying.

 

[06tb06]

Buy the 13" MBP now, you can always upgrade in the future.

 

[filmbuff]

Is it worth the performance hit and the cost from depreciation just to get rid of the keyboard? If you really hate typing on it and you do a lot of typing I get it, but I would stick to your plan of waiting till WWDC and just see what happens. Since you're basically talking about a downgrade you don't gain anything from doing it sooner, might as well wait unless you're having keyboard issues right now.

 

[SteveVA]

Do you guys think there will be a refresh of the MBP 16 this Fall? Maybe the new Comet Lake processor and WIFI 6?

 

[deeddawg]

I’m trying to see if I should move over to the 1.4GHz MBP 13 now, if it’s powerful enough, or (a) wait for next year’s 14” MBP, (b) wait for an ARM Mac that’s worth buying.

The real question IMHO is what software you use and when you expect it'll be updated to run natively and stably on an ARM based Macbook. Part of this is also what is your tolerance for glitches?

While it's certainly possible the transition will be smooth and seamless - Apple has done this a couple times before - it could also be bumpy.

 

[pcdtech]

The real question IMHO is what software you use and when you expect it'll be updated to run natively and stably on an ARM based Macbook. Part of this is also what is your tolerance for glitches?

While it's certainly possible the transition will be smooth and seamless - Apple has done this a couple times before - it could also be bumpy.

Yeah, I'm not worried about the software I use at it relates to the ARM transition as I really only use Apple software and VMWare Horizon Client for work. I use a few other utilities (Wipr, Tooth Fairy), as well, but I suspect those developers would move quickly to update their software.

To your second question, though, I'm really trying to stop being an early adopter who deals with bugs. I'm over bugs. I want something that's 95% polished. Can deal with a few rough edges but nothing major. Do you think the 2nd or 3rd year of ARM laptops would be the time to upgrade?

To that end, outside of hearing what happens at WWDC, I'm leaning toward waiting for the 14" MBP, and then only making the switch to ARM when all of the kinks have been worked through and they've reached MBP-type performance.
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Is it worth the performance hit and the cost from depreciation just to get rid of the keyboard? If you really hate typing on it and you do a lot of typing I get it, but I would stick to your plan of waiting till WWDC and just see what happens. Since you're basically talking about a downgrade you don't gain anything from doing it sooner, might as well wait unless you're having keyboard issues right now.

Yeah, the only thing I gain is potentially slightly better price on the sale of my 2018 MBP 2.3 GHz. But I can't image pricing would move that much between now and the end of June. Still, the more I think about it, not knowing what will be announced at WWDC, I'm leaning toward waiting until the 14" MBP launches. And then ride with that until it's safe to purchase an ARM laptop.

 

[bill-p]

(1) Do you think I’ll experience any noticeable lag between the 2.3 GHz 2018 MBP and the 1.4GHz 2020 MBP Base?

According to most people here, it'll lag to hell and back, the display will ghost like crazy, the speaker will pop at 0.1dB and that's totally audible in all scenarios, including when you're on an airplane and someone is screaming literally into your ears. Also the fan noise will be insane and can drown out the airplane noise completely.

Any older MacBook Pro is built better than any of the newer ones. The 2015 MacBook Pro is the Godliest of them all.

...okay, kidding aside, I'd say... it shouldn't matter. Just get a new MacBook if you think your current one is not enough, and then if the new one doesn't seem to do what you need it to, then... just return it.

(2) When do you think that an ARM processor Apple laptop will be worth buying, after the kinks are worked out? 2022?

2030, depending on whether screen bezels bother you. And yes, you can quote me on that.

(3) When do you think an ARM processor will reach the MBP? 2023?

It most likely has already been in R&D phase for a long time. Performance has not been up to par at all compared against the current Intel Core i5/i7/i9 stuffs. So until Apple can get them to perform above the current i5/i7/i9 chips, they won't release it.

My guess? 2024 - 2025.

That is, if Apple even wants an ARM MacBook at that point. I'd argue it makes more sense for them to work on an iPad OS that can replace Mac OS. But then again, everybody here seems to want new tech in an antiquated form factor (laptop) with traditional control (trackpad + keyboard) so... what do I know.

 

[pcdtech]

2030, depending on whether screen bezels bother you. And yes, you can quote me on that.

Interesting...what did you mean by this comment? Wouldn’t an ARM laptop presumably have thinner bezels than an Intel Mac laptop?

 

[bill-p]

Interesting...what did you mean by this comment? Wouldn’t an ARM laptop presumably have thinner bezels than an Intel Mac laptop?

Apple loves thick bezels. The iPad has it. The MacBook Pro 16" could have razor-thin bezels, but no, the top and bottom bezels are still very phat for no apparent reason at all. iMac still has super phat bezels, and the XDR display, at $6K, still has phat bezels.

Someone at Apple obviously does not like thinner bezels.

Contrast this to say... Dell. Dell's XPS line in 2020 will have 13", 15" and 17" sizes, and their 13" has so small a bezel, it's barely bigger than Apple's 12" MacBook.

 

[KPOM]

Apple loves thick bezels. The iPad has it. The MacBook Pro 16" could have razor-thin bezels, but no, the top and bottom bezels are still very phat for no apparent reason at all. iMac still has super phat bezels, and the XDR display, at $6K, still has phat bezels.

Someone at Apple obviously does not like thinner bezels.

Contrast this to say... Dell. Dell's XPS line in 2020 will have 13", 15" and 17" sizes, and their 13" has so small a bezel, it's barely bigger than Apple's 12" MacBook.

They tend to prefer thinner panels (thinner bezels, all else equal, require thicker panels).

The Dell XPS has a similar footprint as the 12” MacBook but has a similar weight as the MacBook Air, and gets worse battery life than the MacBook Pro. I think it is a great notebook and a good choice for Windows fans, but it does make some compromises, as well.

 

[bill-p]

They tend to prefer thinner panels (thinner bezels, all else equal, require thicker panels).

The Dell XPS has a similar footprint as the 12” MacBook but has a similar weight as the MacBook Air, and gets worse battery life than the MacBook Pro. I think it is a great notebook and a good choice for Windows fans, but it does make some compromises, as well.

No matter the sacrifice or nit-picky details, the facts are:

1. Apple's MacBooks have hideously huge bezels by 2020 standards. Especially the MacBook Air and Pro 13". The 16" is just passable.
2. Other manufacturers are catching up in design. Build quality nonwithstanding. The MacBook Air actually isn't even the lightest laptop anymore, either. The LG Gram 15 is lighter.

Apple rested on their laurel for too long. Or actually, that's not true. They simply just don't give a damn about the Mac anymore. It's sad but true. I'll still cling on to my MacBook Pro while I still can, but at the rate Apple is going, it's pretty obvious the Mac will eventually be phased out and Apple will sell only iOS devices.

 

[KPOM]

No matter the sacrifice or nit-picky details, the facts are:

1. Apple's MacBooks have hideously huge bezels by 2020 standards. Especially the MacBook Air and Pro 13". The 16" is just passable.
2. Other manufacturers are catching up in design. Build quality nonwithstanding. The MacBook Air actually isn't even the lightest laptop anymore, either. The LG Gram 15 is lighter.

Apple rested on their laurel for too long. Or actually, that's not true. They simply just don't give a damn about the Mac anymore. It's sad but true. I'll still cling on to my MacBook Pro while I still can, but at the rate Apple is going, it's pretty obvious the Mac will eventually be phased out and Apple will sell only iOS devices.

Those are all opinions.

In any case, it’s a GOOD thing that other manufacturers are paying attention to design. Apple started the rising tide that lifted all boats and is benefiting all consumers. In any case, I think Apple actually is paying a lot of attention to the Mac. The 16” is almost universally praised. As for the LG Gram, it makes so many compromises and uses a lightweight processor, so I don’t really care that it is lighter.

My HP Elitebook 840 G5 is a fairly common Windows notebook that businesses buy in bulk at base MacBook Pro prices. Its bezels are HUGE compared to the MacBook Pro. What you need to keep in mind is that Dell, HP, etc. make a wide range of notebooks. Yes, their flagships are really nice. But they don’t represent the volume. Every Apple notebook is a volume seller. True, they aren’t light years ahead of the rest of the industry anymore, but they are still solidly in the premium segment, and all indications are that they are developing ARM chips to differentiate themselves. If that’s the case, I totally understand why they aren’t investing massive sums to keep the existing models at the bleeding edge.

 

[pcdtech]

1. Apple's MacBooks have hideously huge bezels by 2020 standards. Especially the MacBook Air and Pro 13". The 16" is just passable.

I don’t disagree with you on this point. Part of the reason I want to hold out until the 14” arrives is the expectation that the screen to bezel ratio will be similar to the 16”. The MBP color gamut is really fantastic but I do look at the bezels on the Air and 13” MBP and I can’t help but think it looks outdated. I feel the same way about the iMac and iMac Pro (perhaps more).

One minor gripe...the Pro XDR display’s bezels are perfect.

 

[psychedelia]

I would most definitely wait until WWDC. Owning a MBP late 2016 top-spec model, as well as a Macbook 12" 2017, I was considering buying either the Macbook Air 2020 or MBP 13" 2020. After reading reviews on the Air, and the lack of 14", as well as a few of the other things you mentioned on the new MBP, I have decided to wait. Of course, I am in no hurry to upgrade, but new technology is always fun.

 

[pcdtech]

I would most definitely wait until WWDC. Owning a MBP late 2016 top-spec model, as well as a Macbook 12" 2017, I was considering buying either the Macbook Air 2020 or MBP 13" 2020. After reading reviews on the Air, and the lack of 14", as well as a few of the other things you mentioned on the new MBP, I have decided to wait. Of course, I am in no hurry to upgrade, but new technology is always fun.

Yeah, at the very least I’m going to wait until WWDC. I would love to be proven wrong, but I’m not sure it will bring any major ARM hardware reveals but perhaps a nod to developers that ARM Macs are coming. The best case scenario in my mind is that Apple will provide clear direction on what Mac(s) will and won’t be transitioned to ARM, and timing.

 

[tommyparadise]

I'm in the same boat. Is the 2020 MBP 13's screen any better than the 2018 MBP 13? Will be moving for keyboard and storage, but curious about any potential display improvement.