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All iPads My opinion: Displays of iPad Mini Retina and iPad Air
- Thread starter NYQ83
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I haven't met the woman, but after comparing 3 iPads, on my MacBook Pro retina and my Sony Led, her face is not green.
From what I see in your posted photos, I to prefer the colors of the R-Mini over the Air. I do however see better tonal range in the Air.
Ok, lets view this on a NEC 2690WUXI2 Wide Gamut display in sRGB mode calibrated within the last week. In this picture the Air shows the purple pencil while the Mini makes it look blue with barely a hint of purple.
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On this one, there is very noticeable banding on mini image of the first blue swirl from the bottom but perfectly solid blue on the Air.
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On the Air portrait a kind of yellowish cast on the face; slightly more color on cheek and lips. On the Mini maybe a little more natural. I don't think I like either one but I would suspect that the Air is showing the inherent flaws in the photo while the Mini is covering them up. Maybe a plus in this instance.
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But who cares besides 0.1% of users who are graphic designers or professional photographers? The pencil pic looks incredible on rMini for 99.9% of users.
This pic is a computer graphic anyway, not a real life photo. Can you give a real life example of how mistaking a color viewed on a tablet can negatively affect lives of normal (non MacRumors hysteria spreaders) people?
For example, Red Cross logo looks pure red on my rMini, but even if it looked a bit orange, it wouldn't cross my mind "Is this a new organization? Tangerine Cross? mmm... like tangerines... gotta donate to Tangerine Cross, not to Red Cross!!!"
I can't imagine any real life scenario where slightly different color reproduction could cause any confusion or harm... unless you're a MacRumors Paranoid type.
I don't know how people can continue to try and rationalize that the rMini's display is not inferior to the Air's display. If you truly prefer an inferior screen, that is your right just as someone has a right to prefer a hamburger to a steak but don't try to preach your "preference for inferiority" as some sort of universal truth.
Here is a link to Displaymate's professional review of both the Air and rMini's displays respectively:
http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_3.htm
http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_4.htm
That is as technical as it comes. How can you dispute that? Also, to say that 99.9% of people won't notice is ridiculous. Almost every review mentions the lower gamut of the rMini.
Here is a link to Displaymate's professional review of both the Air and rMini's displays respectively:
http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_3.htm
http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_4.htm
That is as technical as it comes. How can you dispute that? Also, to say that 99.9% of people won't notice is ridiculous. Almost every review mentions the lower gamut of the rMini.
Nobody disputes science. But for 99.9% of users, those numbers just ain't matter.
For example, with Air's 264dpi, you can see individual pixels if you look closely, but with rMini's 326dpi, you can't. And if you zoom in on a font, curved sides of letters clearly show jaggedness on Air, much less so on mini. Technically speaking, Air is not Retina. But who cares? Only MR Paranoidists.
I can't imagine any real life scenario where slightly different color reproduction could cause any confusion or harm... unless you're a MacRumors Paranoid type.
Educated purchases.
I am sure a great many people don't care but for those who do .
My goodness! This isn't about life or death. It is about pleasure for me and perhaps work/income for others who may use it that way.This pic is a computer graphic anyway, not a real life photo. Can you give a real life example of how mistaking a color viewed on a tablet can negatively affect lives of normal (non MacRumors hysteria spreaders) people?
For example, Red Cross logo looks pure red on my rMini, but even if it looked a bit orange, it wouldn't cross my mind "Is this a new organization? Tangerine Cross? mmm... like tangerines... gotta donate to Tangerine Cross, not to Red Cross!!!"
I can't imagine any real life scenario where slightly different color reproduction could cause any confusion or harm... unless you're a MacRumors Paranoid type.
Wasn't it Steve Jobs who took inspiration from his father to such an extent that it was important for things to look good even on the inside of the computer box that the customer couldn't even see? And here we are talking about an objective flaw that everyone can see (if they try).
Nobody disputes science. But for 99.9% of users, those numbers just ain't matter.
For example, with Air's 264dpi, you can see individual pixels if you look closely, but with rMini's 326dpi, you can't. And if you zoom in on a font, curved sides of letters clearly show jaggedness on Air, much less so on mini. Technically speaking, Air is not Retina. But who cares? Only MR Paranoidists.
Do you honestly hold the Air that close to your face when you use it? That is like standing 4" in front of a 60" HDTV and saying you can see "pixels." Very unrealistic scenario. When holding and using the Air at normal viewing distances, I can attest that it looks very sharp and you cannot see any pixels whatsoever. However, the inferior color reproduction of the rMini can be seen from ALL angles and distances. Heck, I can put my iPhone 5 right up to my eyeball and see pixels but how realistic is that kind of usage?
I am not trying to knock the rMini as I was set on getting one but the display was too much of a setback for me considering the price of the device. The main color that the rMini seems to have trouble accurately reproducing is red which comes across very orange-ish to me.
Apple typically prides itself on superior displays and on a device like a tablet where the whole thing is essentially a screen, I think they dropped the ball with the rMini.
I chose Mini Retina. spent another while day comparing, and here is how I see it. It all depends on you and what you're looking for. One is totally portable, decent display, good sound, amazing battery, and feels just amazing in your hands. The other one got slimmer but still a pain in the ass to be holding with one hand, colors are a bit too saturated, speaker is loud but sounds as if speakers are inverted in, not as portable, and does not feel amazing in your hands.
I like that feature on mini that allows you to hold a device with a finger and not effecting what you're doing, and on the Air you can't do that, and trust me you will want to.
I like that feature on mini that allows you to hold a device with a finger and not effecting what you're doing, and on the Air you can't do that, and trust me you will want to.
Same with colors on rMini. When I normally use my rMini, colors look very vibrant and I cannot see any missing gamuts.
But don't deny the hard fact that Air's pixels CAN be resolved and that Air is a semi-retina display as its resolution 264dpi lies smack in-between true retina of rMini 326dpi and a dot-matrix printer at 200dpi.
Only when you're looking for it. It's equivalent to examining your 60" TV from 4" distance.
Owned a full size iPad for 2 years. Had my heart set on the new iPad Air. Walked into the Apple store, saw a Retina Mini for the first time, held it and fell in love. Yes the colours aren't as vibrant (and that's a big deal to me) but the form factor is awesome. Ahhh, I seriously never had considered a Mini until I held one but they are amazing!!
Same with colors on rMini. When I normally use my rMini, colors look very vibrant and I cannot see any missing gamuts.
But don't deny the hard fact that Air's pixels CAN be resolved and that Air is a semi-retina display as its resolution 264dpi lies smack in-between true retina of rMini 326dpi and a dot-matrix printer at 200dpi.
Only when you're looking for it. It's equivalent to examining your 60" TV from 4" distance.
I respectfully disagree. There is no way you can see the pixels on an Air if you are using it at a normal viewing distance. Go close enough to any screen and you can start to see pixels. Even your rMini.
My statement about the colors on the rMini still holds true though. It is independent of viewing distance. The colors stay the same and they still don't achieve a respectable sRGB range. I don't have to "look" for an object that is supposed to be red that turns out a shade of orange; it reaches out to me.
If you can honestly see the pixels on the iPad Air during operation, you must have Superman vision. And if you had Superman vision, the inferior color accuracy of the rMini would be driving you even more nuts!
Wrong. Human eye is not a microscope. There's a limit of how small pixels you can see. I'm shortsighted yet cannot see pixels on my rMini even when looking from the shortest distance my eyes can focus at. But I could easily see Air's pixels when I examined it in the store.
rMini screen is true retina (you can't resolve pixels period) while Air is semi-retina, between resolution of a 1990's dot matrix printer and 2013 rMini. That's a hard fact, you gotta admit it.
Wrong. Human eye is not a microscope. There's a limit of how small pixels you can see. I'm shortsighted yet cannot see pixels on my rMini even when looking from the shortest distance my eyes can focus at. But I could easily see Air's pixels when I examined it in the store.
rMini screen is true retina (you can't resolve pixels period) while Air is semi-retina, between resolution of a 1990's dot matrix printer and 2013 rMini. That's a hard fact, you gotta admit it.
Retina is a function of viewing distance (usually some sort of reasonable "normal") as well as PPI. You're really oversimplifying the issue to try and make some sort of point.
It's pointless to discuss color accuracy here
Because you are looking at a photo of a photo displayed on your monitor or iPad.
First unless you have the original subject for reference, you have no idea what it actually looks like. Then when the poster takes a photo to show on the iPads, the camera is a variable. Most camera auto white balance doesn't work well, and most people don't correct the white balance on the photo. So the image in the first steps is probably not a good representation of the actual subject.
Second, when the poster take a photo of the iPads that display the original photo, again the camera is a factor. The colors go through another transformation.
Finally, when you look at the post on your iPad or computer, the colors are transformed again.
In total you have 3 possible transformations. One is more than enough to invalidate any judgment, let alone 3.
Because you are looking at a photo of a photo displayed on your monitor or iPad.
First unless you have the original subject for reference, you have no idea what it actually looks like. Then when the poster takes a photo to show on the iPads, the camera is a variable. Most camera auto white balance doesn't work well, and most people don't correct the white balance on the photo. So the image in the first steps is probably not a good representation of the actual subject.
Second, when the poster take a photo of the iPads that display the original photo, again the camera is a factor. The colors go through another transformation.
Finally, when you look at the post on your iPad or computer, the colors are transformed again.
In total you have 3 possible transformations. One is more than enough to invalidate any judgment, let alone 3.
Wrong. Human eye is not a microscope. There's a limit of how small pixels you can see. I'm shortsighted yet cannot see pixels on my rMini even when looking from the shortest distance my eyes can focus at. But I could easily see Air's pixels when I examined it in the store.
rMini screen is true retina (you can't resolve pixels period) while Air is semi-retina, between resolution of a 1990's dot matrix printer and 2013 rMini. That's a hard fact, you gotta admit it.
1990's dot matrix printer? Really? And the rMini has the same color range as a 1960's television set!
Even if the Air is "non-retina" by those arguments, nobody is complaining about the Air's resolution besides you. Wish I could say the same for the rMini's gamut (or lack of) issue....it seems that 4 out of every 5 reviews make a note about the rMini's inferior color reproduction versus the Air and almost every other 7" tablet.
The one that is 'too much' is actually 'accurate' and possibly something many people have NEVER seen in their lives. Unless working with professionally calibrated equipment, source, monitor, and of course---the actual picture or motion shot with proper white balance...one will NEVER know which is correct just looking at a computer jpeg.
As linked to earlier in the thread, the test conducted by Display Mate, one of the renowned display review sites---also echoed by Anandtech
Here's the quote @ Display mate
"The iPad Air has mostly incremental but still significant improvements over the excellent 3rd and 4th generation iPad displays. Compared to the 4th generation, the screen Reflectance decreased by 23 percent, the Peak Brightness increased by 7 percent, and the Contrast Rating for High Ambient Light increased by 32 percent all good. Absolute Color Accuracy and Image Contrast fidelity are both very good (but somewhat below the Kindle Fire) and are discussed in detail below. The emphasis for the iPad Air is in reduced size, thickness, and weight. The most important under the hood display improvement is the switch from a-Si amorphous Silicon LCDs up to a much higher performance IGZO LCD backplane, which was discussed in our iPad 3 Display Shoot-Out article last year. The switch to IGZO produces an impressive 57 percent improvement in display power efficiency from previous Retina Display iPads so the iPad Air doesnt get uncomfortably warm like the earlier iPads."
His response in the shootout with the rMini is this
"The iPad mini with Retina Display is Apples second generation Mini Tablet. The first generation iPad mini was disappointing because not only did it have a low resolution low PPI display, but its small 62 percent Color Gamut was the same as the older iPad 2, instead of the 100 percent Color Gamut on the iPad 3 and iPad 4 (and the new iPad Air). The new iPad mini with Retina Display has a high resolution high PPI display like the other two Mini Tablets that we test here. But shockingly, it still has the same small 63 percent Color Gamut as the original iPad mini and even older iPad 2. As a result, the iPad mini with Retina Display comes in with a distant 3rd place finish behind the innovative displays on the Kindle Fire HDX 7 and new Nexus 7."
The 4th gen (we run a business and have four of them)---is incredible. There are some finer details in the air noticeable in sunlight, working with RAW photos and manipulation of decently shot motion with proper white balance, etc. The Air is also almost 10 percent 'brighter' with less reflectance.
VTECaddict nailed it. Buy what you like. Stay off the forums, or away from the debates...they're ridiculous...many more folks that know not what they're talking about, couch display masters, and the like. It's irrelevant what the 'gamut' is, saturation, brightness, contrast, black and white points...completely irrelevant to the average Joe or Jane. That said---one thing the average Joe and Jane are also new to is typically a calibrated display....something Apple has been doing and I wish other OEMS would jump on right away.
Many folks go drop a couple large on a nice LED panel, a couple C notes on an articulating monitor...another 2-400 on someone to mount and run the wires in wall...but baulk at having a professional calibration expert come by to dial in their TV. If you actually dive in to your TV color and calibration, picture menus, you'll see in the "Advanced' section offsets plus/minus for the specific base colors, contrast, brightness, gray scale....the list goes on and on. Sure...you can turn it on, flip it to vivid and enjoy away---but for what the director intended, the photographer meant to convey, accurate color gamut with many MANY other factors including white and black point/contrast/brightness, gray scale, et al....APPLE actually TAKES the time to calibrate their displays! Whether it's a rMini, Air, iPad 2, rMBP...doesn't matter, they take those extra minutes to ship a killer display and when your device IS a display, interactive display---it makes a LOT of sense.
Just as when you buy your new TV at Best Buy, Wal Mart or wherever, when you get home, you'll never EVER notice those differences you did when there were 45 other 46"-65" LEDs hanging up all around the choice you made.
I'm not sure what hepatitis 'looks like'...obviously latter stages increase jaundice skin colors...certainly not what I'm seeing here. She's got an olive complexion...perhaps what you're seeing is what you're used to seeing on a woman made up to have more pink in her cheeks...when in fact, NONE of us know the white balance set to while taking the shot....nor which would be more 'true' to the actual, physical woman
As an owner of all three you're talking about, I can't imagine what's happened to your ears over time....might want to have them checked. The 4 is good, the Air has exceptional sound in comparison to ALL older iterations....even an attempt at some 'bass'. Our minis, other than having stereo finally
, are worth a pair of headphones for any detailed listening. They're about as flat and quiet as necessary for external playbackPhotographer's fault? You can DEFINITELY not tell us 'from first hand experience the Airs have a greenish tint to the color'. Not unless you've taken the shot yourself, knew the settings, white balance, speed, ISO, and aperture. Was it shot in RAW and converted for a low gamut display? Too many variables, but with a plethora of excellent reviews online ALL disagreeing with your assertion, it's probably wise to not make such bold claims.
That said---what 10,000,000 Airs have been sold +/- a couple million in the past month? There's bound to be a couple duds in the lot...and if you're display is showing a green cast in otherwise decent shots, white background, or pictures you know have been calibrated (A movie for example, Hollywood flick), it's impossible to know how far off your rig is.
As far as Anand's display tests...it bested 5 or 6 of the 8 tests, essentially tied with the iPad 4 in one, and was bested I believe in white point by about 4.5%. While the other 6, the Air not only smoke the '4' but the Surface 2, Nex 7, T100, and many others....of course, now Amazon's HDX is the king of the hill, which kinda sucks for the rMini, as they're so much closer in size...course the down side to the Kindle in comparison to the Air is considerable if you're planning to use your Air as device to 'create', write, manipulate motion or stills, make music, any creative work...office work, presentations, et al.
Nobody disputes science. But for 99.9% of users, those numbers just ain't matter.
For example, with Air's 264dpi, you can see individual pixels if you look closely, but with rMini's 326dpi, you can't. And if you zoom in on a font, curved sides of letters clearly show jaggedness on Air, much less so on mini. Technically speaking, Air is not Retina. But who cares? Only MR Paranoidists.
Air IS retina. Retina is a marketing term derived from Apple on how far from your eye a device is typically with 20/20 vision, that's just over 14". The rMini must NOT be retina either since it's almost quadruple the area of the iPhone, yet has the same PPI???? No....you'll hold your Mini closer than 14", perhaps the acknowledged 10.4-11" again---to NOT notice a pixel. Cell phones are held 6-8" from our face.
Again, Retina = Marketing term, nothing else. That said, there IS science behind it....and as a 15"rMBP owner I can honestly tell you @ 220ppi, it's absolutely 'retina' @ the normal 21-24" I view my laptop. Doubling down on resolution is amazing....for you to go on a rant of what is and isn't retina, you'll need to understand a bit more about optometry and how our eyes work at distance and focus.
...Apple makes the Air!
Why didn't Steve use full-RGB gamut on iPad 1 then? It's not like the technology didn't exist then.
And you know there was an LCD capable of full sRGB in 2010 capable of being put in a 1.5 pound package with 10 hours of battery life and with the limitations of SoCs at that time??? How? Who was making them (other than possibly very expensive scientific and photographic/motion 'color' 'ists displays they used at that time? My bet, there wasn't....not that wasn't cost prohibitive...and the iPad 1 was pretty damn good for color gamut
The Air has the same finger/palm rejection technology as the rMini. I've got one of each---and they work the same. It's cool though---go with what works for YOU, not ME! And you don't have to defend it at ALL!!!
Enjoy, it's the second best tablet in the world right nowWrong. Human eye is not a microscope. There's a limit of how small pixels you can see. I'm shortsighted yet cannot see pixels on my rMini even when looking from the shortest distance my eyes can focus at. But I could easily see Air's pixels when I examined it in the store.
rMini screen is true retina (you can't resolve pixels period) while Air is semi-retina, between resolution of a 1990's dot matrix printer and 2013 rMini. That's a hard fact, you gotta admit it.
That's definitely NOT a 'hard fact'....it's actually completely false. DPI on printers is hardly the 'same' as PPI in displays, LoL! Again---read Display Mate, Andand, Ars....anyone that actually knows a little something and you'll understand. I'm not going to go through posting the entire optical scientific explanation but if you google it, regardless if you're short/long sighted, 20/20 or have Superman Xray vision----that would just see thru the pixels and to the battery, otherwise ALL humans, regardless of your vision, there is an absolute, objective measurement from pupil to display and the correlation of the angle of both eyes in stereo at a specific distance to differentiate the 'pixels' or ANY other experiment you'd like to run.
Tl/Dr---the Air is Retina. The iPhone is Retina. The rMini is Retina....and Retina means absolutely nothing in real world terms...THAT said, it actually DOES indeed have a scientific basis for real world visibility and the distinguishing of pixel size at specific distances for specific sizes of displays.
J
Yes, you are right. But I have viewed photos I took and was very familiar with in controlled settings on both devices and the Air was accurate and the Mini not. So the comparisons on the posted photos of the jpgs on the Air and Mini still crudely demonstrate the differences between the devices. But Display Mate and Anandtech have already demonstrated this much more convincingly.
I will say that the Mini's color reproduction is better than I would expect for a device that is 38% below the sRGB standard gamut. Apple has apparently done a very good job of controlling the other factors that contribute to display accuracy.