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MacFoxG4

macrumors 6502
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Nov 22, 2019
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So, I decided to make a thread about my experiences with a PM G5 that I recently added to my collection. It’s a 7,2 1.8ghz DP that currently has 2.5 GB of RAM and a 160 GB HDD. I have always wanted a PM G5 for the aesthetics, but also because I wanted another PPC Mac that can run Leopard. My 1.5ghz Sawtooth runs Leopard, Sorbet 1.5 to be more specific (which is also what I am now running on my G5), but in order to have Leopard run at its best, you need a CI-capable GPU. Problem with that is that CI-capable GPUs either don’t work in OS 9 or if they do it’s without 2D/3D acceleration. I have gone back and forth many, many times when it comes to CI in Leopard vs 2D/3D acceleration in OS 9 on my Sawtooth and have tried various compromises and eventually decided that the best way forward was to get a G5 and use that for Leopard stuff and focus the Sawtooth more on OS 9 stuff.

I had a 1.9ghz iMac G5 iSight prior to my PM G5 and I really liked it. Unfortunately, the FireWire port turned out to be dead and the display started getting red lines streaking down it. Finding a replacement display was impossible and with the FW port being busted too, I gave up on that iMac.

I found the PM G5 a few months later online. I made an offer, the seller accepted and a few days later my G5 arrived. Unfortunately, the handles had gotten bent during shipping, as is often seen with G5s. I knew this could happen, but it was a risk I knew I had to take because I am not comfortable with or able to do local pickup. The right sides of the lower handles have bent away from the case, but the strip of aluminum they are a part of is still attached to the lower right center of the case. The lower front handle is dented in on the left side and the left panel has come away from the case a tiny bit so you can see the, I guess you would call them, “rivets” inside. The case is still able to stand up on its own though, so I think it’s alright.

Inside, I had to do some reseating. A RAM stick had come loose and there was a loose PCI bracket cover inside too with no screw. The Mac didn’t come with a HDD, so I used the one from my iMac G5. I powered on the PM G5, but it wouldn’t boot. The fans turned on, the power light blinked, but no picture on screen. I eventually figured out it was a RAM issue. There were two mismatched Crucial sticks in addition to the stock RAM. I also discovered that Slot 1 is dead. Once I removed the Crucial sticks and avoided putting anything in Slot 1, the machine booted. Once it booted up, I decided to test out the ports and the Optical Drive. The ports were fine. Having a front headphone jack is amazing! But the Optical Drive tray kept getting stuck. I eventually realized that all it needed was reseating and once i did that it was fine. It did have a problem where the tray would close on its own a few seconds after opening, but that issue has seemed to have fixed itself as I haven’t had that problem since I did my various OS installs.

I wanted to try out Jaguar on here and while it was cool seeing how fast Jaguar boots on here and seeing Classic mode start up so fast was amazing, I knew Jaguar isn’t something I would use often. After a couple of experiments with Tiger and vanilla 10.5.8, I ending up going with the latest release of Sorbet. Sorbet runs really well on here. Leopard in general (meaning both vanilla and Sorbet) just feels better on here than on the Sawtooth. I also love that I can have FireWire 800 on here and watch 720p videos. 720p is a slideshow on the Sawtooth and none of the FW 800 PCI cards I have tried on the Sawtooth works or works for long. I can also both close and open the optical drive tray using the eject key on my Apple Pro Keyboard. On my Sawtooth, I can only do that on 10.5.6 and below.

I added 2 GB of RAM in here already and am currently awaiting another 2 GB kit to arrive along with an SSD plus 2.5’’ to 3.5’’ bracket. I’m debating whether I should replace the stock RAM with a 2 GB kit later on down the road so I can have 6 GB of RAM or if I should leave the stock RAM be and try to be happy with just 4.5 GB of RAM. It’s a bummer I can’t have the max of 8 GB, but oh well.

In terms of GPUs, I have the GeForce 6200 in here now. I chose it because it has more VRAM than the FX 5200 and it wasn’t getting any use since I went back to the Radeon 9000 on my Sawtooth. I did buy a Mac Edition ATI X800 XT from eBay, but the fan on that thing is really noisy. I can drown it out by playing music, but still. On top of that, for the things I do on here, the card made no difference. 720p videos, for example, play the same whether I have the X800 XT or the stock FX 5200 installed. I thought I would upgrade the GPU because why not, but perhaps this was a case where upgrading the GPU wasn’t really necessary.

So yeah, just thought I would make this thread to share my thoughts and experiences with this Mac.
 
So, I decided to make a thread about my experiences with a PM G5 that I recently added to my collection. It’s a 7,2 1.8ghz DP that currently has 2.5 GB of RAM and a 160 GB HDD. I have always wanted a PM G5 for the aesthetics, but also because I wanted another PPC Mac that can run Leopard.

Congratulations! I own 2.3 Ghz dual core machine and I love it. They're an underrated entry in the Mac range and in my humble opinion, a titan of engineering for their time which has led to them continuing to hold up well today. :)

I have gone back and forth many, many times when it comes to CI in Leopard vs 2D/3D acceleration in OS 9 on my Sawtooth and have tried various compromises and eventually decided that the best way forward was to get a G5 and use that for Leopard stuff and focus the Sawtooth more on OS 9 stuff.

It makes sense to have dedicated computers for particular tasks. One of my friends was doing this more than 20 years ago and at the time I couldn't get my head around it but I soon came to understand how logical it is.

I had a 1.9ghz iMac G5 iSight prior to my PM G5 and I really liked it. Unfortunately, the FireWire port turned out to be dead and the display started getting red lines streaking down it. Finding a replacement display was impossible and with the FW port being busted too, I gave up on that iMac.

On a side note, you could connect it to an external monitor and turn off/disable the internal LCD. I wonder if the FireWire port just needs to be re-soldered...

I also love that I can have FireWire 800 on here and watch 720p videos. 720p is a slideshow on the Sawtooth and none of the FW 800 PCI cards I have tried on the Sawtooth works or works for long.

Same here with FireWire 800 functionality and on my machine I can watch 1080p videos. I was dead impressed at seeing it effortlessly play HDTV recordings copied over from my PVR and x264 files. My 3.06 Ghz P4 struggled with even 720p playback. I'm surprised that you've had problems with FW 800 PCI cards on the Sawtooth - I've tried a number on mine and never had any issues.

I added 2 GB of RAM in here already and am currently awaiting another 2 GB kit to arrive along with an SSD plus 2.5’’ to 3.5’’ bracket. I’m debating whether I should replace the stock RAM with a 2 GB kit later on down the road so I can have 6 GB of RAM or if I should leave the stock RAM be and try to be happy with just 4.5 GB of RAM. It’s a bummer I can’t have the max of 8 GB, but oh well.

Personally, I'd upgrade to the max RAM possible. You'll thank yourself later on and memory for these machines can be found on eBay for next to nothing. I increased my G5's RAM to the full 8GB for a pittance.

So yeah, just thought I would make this thread to share my thoughts and experiences with this Mac.

Thanks for sharing your insights. I look forward to reading more as you begin making usage of your machine and I hope you enjoy doing so. :)
 
Congratulations! I own 2.3 Ghz dual core machine and I love it. They're an underrated entry in the Mac range and in my humble opinion, a titan of engineering for their time which has led to them continuing to hold up well today. :)



It makes sense to have dedicated computers for particular tasks. One of my friends was doing this more than 20 years ago and at the time I couldn't get my head around it but I soon came to understand how logical it is.



On a side note, you could connect it to an external monitor and turn off/disable the internal LCD. I wonder if the FireWire port just needs to be re-soldered...



Same here with FireWire 800 functionality and on my machine I can watch 1080p videos. I was dead impressed at seeing it effortlessly play HDTV recordings copied over from my PVR and x264 files. My 3.06 Ghz P4 struggled with even 720p playback. I'm surprised that you've had problems with FW 800 PCI cards on the Sawtooth - I've tried a number on mine and never had any issues.



Personally, I'd upgrade to the max RAM possible. You'll thank yourself later on and memory for these machines can be found on eBay for next to nothing. I increased my G5's RAM to the full 8GB for a pittance.



Thanks for sharing your insights. I look forward to reading more as you begin making usage of your machine and I hope you enjoy doing so. :)
Thanks for your words of encouragement. As far as the RAM goes, I was hesitant because I've seen posts of people saying their RAM slot died in their G5 after they tried to put a new stick in. Something to do with breaking the solder connections when putting a new stick in. I was nervous when putting in the new RAM kits I did put in here so far because of this. They seem to require a lot of pressure to fully put it in all the way. I think I will take the risk though and get another 2 GB kit to replace the stock RAM in slot 2.

The FW 800 PCI card issue in the Sawtooth still boggles my mind. The area where the FW controller chip is on the logic board did suffer some water damage under the previous owner, so maybe that has something to do with it? Like maybe some part of it is messed up and that is messing with any PCI card that has a FW controller chip on it? The built-in FW ports still work though.

Back to the G5...I put in another RAM kit taking the RAM to 4.5 GB and put in the SSD + bracket. I noticed that even with the bracket, it's still not a tight fit compared to the mechanical HDD. I left the HDD where it is in slot B because I really don't have any other machine to use this with plus I also wanted to clone over my existing setup instead of starting over from scratch, so the SSD is resting on top of it in slot A. I used CCC to clone over my current Sorbet install over to the SSD, repairing disk permissions afterwards. The boot time really hasn't changed much using the SSD, maybe because I'm coming from a 7200 RPM HDD as opposed to something slower like 5400 or 4200 RPM? Anyway, it works. I formatted the HDD, so it is just extra space. With the 250 GB SSD and the 160 GB HDD, I have roughly 410 GB of storage altogether in this Mac.
 
The boot time really hasn't changed much using the SSD, maybe because I'm coming from a 7200 RPM HDD as opposed to something slower like 5400 or 4200 RPM?
The SSD’s access times are still much lower than any HDD’s so launching applications should be noticeably faster. What SSD is it, and are the benchmark results — if you have them — looking decent? That being said, boot time ain’t everything :)
 
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Back to the G5...I put in another RAM kit taking the RAM to 4.5 GB and put in the SSD + bracket. I noticed that even with the bracket, it's still not a tight fit compared to the mechanical HDD. I left the HDD where it is in slot B because I really don't have any other machine to use this with plus I also wanted to clone over my existing setup instead of starting over from scratch, so the SSD is resting on top of it in slot A. I used CCC to clone over my current Sorbet install over to the SSD, repairing disk permissions afterwards. The boot time really hasn't changed much using the SSD, maybe because I'm coming from a 7200 RPM HDD as opposed to something slower like 5400 or 4200 RPM? Anyway, it works. I formatted the HDD, so it is just extra space. With the 250 GB SSD and the 160 GB HDD, I have roughly 410 GB of storage altogether in this Mac.
This doesn't surprise me. For this era of system the primary increase in performance between an SSD and traditional hard disk is in the random read / write performance. Sequential access, while better, doesn't show as significant of gains. Since the boot process is primarily consists of sequential reads the benefit of the SSD is considerably less than if it were random.
 
Taking some time to think about this, I think I have realized that it has been so long since I last did an SSD upgrade on PPC that I forgot what it's it like to go from HDD to SSD on PPC. I remember when I went from having 2 HDDs (a 7200 RPM and a 4200 RPM one) to an SSD on my Sawtooth, that the jump from 7200 RPM to SSD was much smaller than the jump from 4200 RPM to SSD. While boot times aren't everything they are a tangible way to see the difference for me. Benchmark scores are cool and all, but they are not something I put a lot of value in, thus I never run any benchmarking software. If my boot times are shorter and my applications load faster, those are tangible things that let me know that the upgrade was worth it. With SCSI and IDE Macs, it's more about having a modern storage medium than it is about performance. The G5 having SATA is interesting because traditional spinning SATA HDDs are still being made so, barring any incompatibilities with the G5's SATA controller, you can buy brand new traditional HDDs if you wanted to and not go the SSD route. For around the same price of OWC's in-house brand SSD plus newertech's adapter, I could have bought a 2 TB 7200 RPM HDD from Amazon.

I do embrace SSDs though. Almost every computer I own has one and knowing I would be using my G5 a lot and wanting to upgrade it as much as possible, I went for it. I wouldn't say I regret doing an SSD upgrade, I'm just experiencing a bit of shock since it has been so long since I last did an SSD upgrade on PPC.
 
Bought an OEM power cable off of eBay, which works great, so now I don't have to use the cable from my Sawtooth anymore. I put in a new PRAM battery too. I removed the original one that was in here and wasn't going to put in a new one until I noticed an issue where upon first booting my internet connection was set to a self-assigned IP address and the only way to fix this was to reboot after setting the time. Putting in a new PRAM battery seems to have fixed this problem.

Speaking of the internet, I am debating whether or not I should seek out the original airport extreme card and antennas? I am using an Ethernet to Wireless bridge now, the same one I use for my other PPC Macs. Having built-in Wi-Fi would be more convenient, but will the airport extreme card work on modern (WPA 2) networks?
 
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So in my opening post I mentioned 720p streaming, but I didn't specify which player I was using. My preferred player is QuickTime, but while 720p is watchable on there, the video will slow down every so often. ffplay seems to be the best when it comes to 720p streaming, but in order for it to play smoothly I have to pause the video first, wait a few seconds, then hit play again and the video will play smoothly. VLC will play 720p files locally, but I can't stream anything on VLC. I get an error message something along the lines of "TLS handshake error." So, 720p is playable on here, it just depends on the software used.
 
I think 4.5 GB of RAM is more than adequate on a G5, and even when running FinalCut Express and Aperture, I never felt like memory was a bottleneck. Maybe there's a memory-intensive application somewhere out there that needs 8GB or 16GB of RAM, but I haven't found it yet. Maybe some kind of engineering simulation app, or running a server with a lot of clients? I have a DualCore 2.3 G5, and absolutely love it. It runs silently under my desk, is fast and has the reliability of a mainframe.
 
I think 4.5 GB of RAM is more than adequate on a G5, and even when running FinalCut Express and Aperture, I never felt like memory was a bottleneck. Maybe there's a memory-intensive application somewhere out there that needs 8GB or 16GB of RAM, but I haven't found it yet. Maybe some kind of engineering simulation app, or running a server with a lot of clients? I have a DualCore 2.3 G5, and absolutely love it. It runs silently under my desk, is fast and has the reliability of a mainframe.
When I was using my Quad (16GB ram) I devoted 10GB of ram to a ram disk. That was made available as a scratch disk to Photoshop and Illustrator and a recovery location for InDesign. I also dropped T4Fx on the ram disk and moved its cache over to the ram disk. I'm not in the habit of turning my computers off (unless forced) so I only had to restore the disk whenever I rebooted - which was rare.

Worked pretty well. T4Fx was pretty fast.
 
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I have good luck with mplayer. Works really well if you dont mind command line or creating an apple script launcher.


Its only real drawback is that it doesn't handle twitch streams well. FFplay wins there.
Thanks, but I've looked into mplayer and decided against it due to the command line. I'm no stranger to the command line, but I have no love for it either, so I prefer to avoid it if at all possible. Might look into creating an apple script launcher though.

I think 4.5 GB of RAM is more than adequate on a G5, and even when running FinalCut Express and Aperture, I never felt like memory was a bottleneck. Maybe there's a memory-intensive application somewhere out there that needs 8GB or 16GB of RAM, but I haven't found it yet. Maybe some kind of engineering simulation app, or running a server with a lot of clients? I have a DualCore 2.3 G5, and absolutely love it. It runs silently under my desk, is fast and has the reliability of a mainframe.
Yes, I find 4.5 GB to be enough for my uses, so I am in no rush to add more. Still I probably will go to 6 GB at some point just so I can max this Mac out as much as possible (still frustrated that I can't do 8, but whatever...). I actually ended up putting the X800 XT back in here for the same reason. I may not technically need the card for my uses, but why let it sit around not being used? Especially when I paid over $100 for it. Might look into seeing if I can replace the X800 XT's fan with something quieter.

I have Final Cut Express on my G5 too, but not Aperture. I keep thinking I will do some video editing on here, even though I never get around to actually doing it. I like having creative applications on these Power Mac towers.
 
Thanks, but I've looked into mplayer and decided against it due to the command line. I'm no stranger to the command line, but I have no love for it either, so I prefer to avoid it if at all possible. Might look into creating an apple script launcher though.
FFplay is the best all-rounder at the moment - MPlayer and Coreplayer are more efficient but have trouble with some codecs.

I made a drop and drop launcher for FFplay here:

#330
 
Wow, been a long time since I've posted anything in this thread. Well, everything was going great with the G5 until it started having power issues. I would get to the Apple logo screen and it would shut itself off. Resetting the PMU would get me to the desktop, but inevitably the Mac would shut itself off again. I have tried all the resets (PRAM, NVRAM, etc.) I've cleaned the dust out of the case, I've removed/rearranged HDDs/SSDs, swapped GPUs, even disabled a CPU, but nothing cures the problem. I was going to buy a replacment power supply, but I decided I'll just buy another G5 at some point instead. Though I sometimes wonder if I should even bother...

I put the optical drive in the Sawtooth, giving that Mac a DVD/CD burner upgrade and finally alleviating the eject key problems I was having in 10.5.8. The optical drive's bezel matches nicely with the USB Hub I put in place of the Zip drive. I'm keeping the G5's SSD and HDD inside the G5 and will either give them to the next G5 or another one of my Macs. I put the GeForce 6200 and Leopard back on the Sawtooth, so that is going to be my Leopard PPC Mac now and my G3s will have to handle any Classic Mac OS stuff (though I did test out Sci-Fi Pinball Under Tiger's Classic Mode and the game runs almost as good as it does on native OS 9 after updating Classic's QuickTime to 6.0.3).
 
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So in my opening post I mentioned 720p streaming, but I didn't specify which player I was using. My preferred player is QuickTime, but while 720p is watchable on there, the video will slow down every so often. ffplay seems to be the best when it comes to 720p streaming, but in order for it to play smoothly I have to pause the video first, wait a few seconds, then hit play again and the video will play smoothly. VLC will play 720p files locally, but I can't stream anything on VLC. I get an error message something along the lines of "TLS handshake error." So, 720p is playable on here, it just depends on the software used.

QMPlay2 might be the best of what is available presently.
 
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