My reasons for sticking with Intel

[xxmarkc]

I have been doing a lot of reading the last few days on this decision. My early 2011 27inch iMac is indestructible. It has a small RAM upgrade (done more years ago than I can remember) to 12GB and for the last few years I have been running the OS off an SSD plugged into a USB port. Last week I had two problems - neither to do with the resilience of the beast. I could not install Office 365 on High Sierra. Second work have switched some meetings from Skype to Zoom, and I get no video with Zoom (maybe a driver issue but not one I could easily fix).

I have been working from home for a year, will do so for a few months more, and when we go back likely to be allowed to still wfh 2 days a week. The iMac format: large 27inch screen, reliable web cam and mic (that is at head level - I am dislike the lap top low camera pointing up thing) is top as far as I am concerned for wfh set up. Performance wise this old iMac (with an SSD and more RAM) was fine for this use case.

I spent a long time looking at the M1s. I am sure they are "the future" but none of them worked for me. The mini does not have the web cam. The Macbook Pro is not good value compared to the Air. The Air is the best of the bunch - but for now I still have some use to squeeze out of my early 2015 Air. It makes far more sense to replace the Air in a year or two with a 2nd or 3rd generation M1.

My iMac is one of my most loved computers, and after 10 years of daily use I really don't want to not be in-front of an iMac for a big chuck of my screen time.

Yesterday Amazon dropped the price of the base 2020 27inch to £1400 from £1799 that is a 22% saving (today it is back up to £1648). That was too good an offer to miss. My list of reasons for sticking to Intel:

1) The iMac as in Intel build has been tuned for years.
2) The only upgrade I want on a Mac is the put more RAM in. This is the only Mac I can do this on. BTW I hear the arguments that the RAM dynamic will change with the M1s - so this upgradability is maybe not a concern for the future.
3) My windows box is my main 3D PC, but I like to be able to use the iMac when the PC is stuck doing some rendering or simulation. The apps I use are mostly going to be emulated on M1 for sometime to come (Houdini, Modo, Blender, Syntheyes, Nuke, Maya, Substance for example)
4) I think the chance of only 1 or 2 years support for intel Macs to be very small - there are just too many of them out there. Yes they will stop selling them. I don't think the PowerPC comparisons are helpful - that was a long time ago and I am sure there were orders of magnitude less PowerPCs in the world than Intel (speculation). I don't expect hardware to be supported for ever. The 5 - 7 year window people refer to for Mac support I think is fine, and I have a high degree of confidence that is what Intel Macs will get. Plus the apps I use need to run on PCs so the likelyhood that I can only run an old version of an App in a few years time on a still supported Intel Macs is very unlikely. Indeed it is more likely some will be forever emulated.

So I am discounting all the don't buy an Intel Mac noise, and am very much looking forward to going from a 2011 to a 2020 iMac.

 

[Fishrrman]

A sound decision in my opinion.
Particularly if you (like me) have older apps that you don't want to give up in the future.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Me? I have an EGPU that I invested $ into a few years ago. Still using it today with my 2020 MBP 13'. I need to run VS 2019 and work with older windows applications so Intel is a must for me. That and... 32GB of ram is ... so very nice I can't ever imagine ever doing anything less. I won't even consider an M1 with at least =>32GB ram.

Despite using my MBP 13' as a desktop with an external 4k monitor, even without the EGPU, I rarely hear the CPU fan. Granted, starting up W10 gets them going but it soon calms down and I'm back in silence (like I am now).

 

[Mac... nificent]

The mini does not have the web cam.

No, but adding one (a better one than any Mac laptop has) would probably only run around $100. Unless you inherently need something that is portable, then the Mac mini is hard to beat.

The iMac as in Intel build has been tuned for years.

Yes but ironically it has an intel processor, which as we've all learned, is a real slacker compared to the Apple SoC. In-fact most people when they first saw how good the Apple M1 performed, their first comment was "intel has been dropping the ball all these years"? Of course no one knew that because we didn't have anything to compare it to. But we do now.

I take it that resale value doesn't mean much to you, because the intel Macs in a few years will probably lose a lot of resale value once everyone gets used to the increased performance of the M1, M1x. M2, M3. etc. etc. It will be similar to trying to sell an Oldsmobile.

am very much looking forward to going from a 2011 to a 2020 iMac.

It will be a big jump. I just don't see it as a very good value in todays market.

 

[ignatius345]

I'm really torn as well. I have a 2014 iMac 5K that I absolutely love and which my wife and I use for many hours a day. It's feeling slow, though, particularly when multiple users have been logged in for a while. I have two accounts (work, personal) and my wife runs one as well. Everything is super quick and zippy off a restart, but as a few days go by with multiple users, graphics start slowing down quite painfully.

I'm not averse to buying 2020 Intel iMac 5K if it will alleviate this issue and I can get 3-4 years of good usage out of it -- and if the price was right.

 

[Arctic Moose]

The mini does not have the web cam.

I currently use a 5K iMac with an external camera mounted on it. Mac webcams are garbage. All of them.

1) The iMac as in Intel build has been tuned for years.

But the M1 still beats practically every Intel chip on performance, even with Intel apps running on Rosetta 2. This gap is only going to get wider. Hope you enjoy fan noise!

4) I think the chance of only 1 or 2 years support for intel Macs to be very small - there are just too many of them out there.

I will be extremely surprised if Intel support survives beyond macOS 13.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I'm looking forward to a 32GB Ram M2-3-4x chip with faster EGPU performance than an RX 580 . That'll be a great call for me to upgrade someday.

 

[mj_]

@Mac... nificent What do you mean by "Intel Macs in a few years will probably lose a lot of resale value"? They already have. Resale prices have been practically slashed in half over night. I firmly believe that a few years from now Intel Macs, be it Minis, Airs, Pros or iMacs, will be practically worthless and sell for scrap metal. Sure, there will still be a very small market for used Intel Macs primarily made of users like @Fishrrman who need to run legacy software or use legacy hardware that isn't compatible with M1 Macs but everyone else will be looking at used M1 Macs instead.

 

[BigMcGuire]

@Mac... nificent What do you mean by "Intel Macs in a few years will probably lose a lot of resale value"? They already have. Resale prices have been practically slashed in half over night. I firmly belieft that a few years from now Intel Macs, be it Minis, Airs, Pros or iMacs, will be practically worthless and sell for scrap metal. Sure, there will still be a very small market for used Intel Macs primarily made of users like @Fishrrman who need to run legacy software or use legacy hardware that isn't compatible with M1 Macs but everyone else will be looking at used M1 Macs instead.

My intel 2020 MBP 13' went from $1150 to $1500 resale recently with Apple's trade in. <shrug> lol. Granted, that's half the price I paid for it (wouldn't ever do that). lol

I do plan on keeping this thing till it kicks the bucket so doesn't bother me, but I was surprised to see the boost in $ offered.

I think you're right, as years progress, these things won't be worth much especially if M1 continues to wow.

 

[xxmarkc]

I like the integrated mic and webcam - it just works and is hassle free. The quality if fine for work meetings. Several years ago I gave up on Macs meeting my compute power needs and now run windows and Mac. There are 2 use cases I so far am not prepared to move off Mac for: portable and general office tasks. It is a bonus to be able to use both for very light (in the case of the Air) and medium+ (in the case of an iMac with decent RAM) 3D duties. I have a lot software wise invested in the past so wary of the new architecture.

Yes resale matters nothing to me. I never sell my Macs - rather they might be given away to family or just gather dust. With the 20% discount Amazon gave me (and 5 instalments at no extra cost) this was (for me) value enough.

 

[Mac... nificent]

I firmly belieft that a few years from now Intel Macs, be it Minis, Airs, Pros or iMacs, will be practically worthless and sell for scrap metal.

Nope, they won't go that low. I have clientele that will always be looking for the intel models. Heck I still have a strong sales base for the 2012 MBPs. DJ's buy them, gut the DVD player and add another hard drive (where they put all of their music). Load it up with 16GB RAM, a SSD, and they are one happy camper. They shy away from the newer M1's because none of their software works on it.

 

[crispApple]

i love my 2009 24'" iMac , But i also love my m1 macbook air for a more portable solution.

 

[MBAir2010]

you kids are lucky today,
in 2006-07 our iMacs G4 were not compatible with anything new from , as in iPods, osx and software.
/get off my grass app!

 

[mj_]

Nope, they won't go that low. I have clientele that will always be looking for the intel models.

I think they will because a surplus of Intel-based Macs will be met with a relatively low number of customers specifically looking for Intel-based machines. Right now your clientele is looking for a very specific model and year. If they are looking for a 2012 non-Retina MacBook Pro than neither a 2014 iMac nor a 2017 MacBook Pro will fit their needs. If, however, they will be looking for an Intel-based iMac there will be plenty of models to choose from. That's why I believe prices will tank once Apple announces the first release of macOS without Intel support. Which I believe is going to be two years from the release of their first M1-based Macs, aka late 2022, aka macOS 13.

 

[Apple_Robert]

No, but adding one (a better one than any Mac laptop has) would probably only run around $100. Unless you inherently need something that is portable, then the Mac mini is hard to beat.


Yes but ironically it has an intel processor, which as we've all learned, is a real slacker compared to the Apple SoC. In-fact most people when they first saw how good the Apple M1 performed, their first comment was "intel has been dropping the ball all these years"? Of course no one knew that because we didn't have anything to compare it to. But we do now.

I take it that resale value doesn't mean much to you, because the intel Macs in a few years will probably lose a lot of resale value once everyone gets used to the increased performance of the M1, M1x. M2, M3. etc. etc. It will be similar to trying to sell an Oldsmobile.


It will be a big jump. I just don't see it as a very good value in todays market.

In my opinion, resale value should not be part of the buying equation, seeing now computers are not investments. If one needs resale in order to buy a new computer, I believe one should reassess one's spending practices.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I have been doing a lot of reading the last few days on this decision. My early 2011 27inch iMac is indestructible. It has a small RAM upgrade (done more years ago than I can remember) to 12GB and for the last few years I have been running the OS off an SSD plugged into a USB port. Last week I had two problems - neither to do with the resilience of the beast. I could not install Office 365 on High Sierra. Second work have switched some meetings from Skype to Zoom, and I get no video with Zoom (maybe a driver issue but not one I could easily fix).

I have been working from home for a year, will do so for a few months more, and when we go back likely to be allowed to still wfh 2 days a week. The iMac format: large 27inch screen, reliable web cam and mic (that is at head level - I am dislike the lap top low camera pointing up thing) is top as far as I am concerned for wfh set up. Performance wise this old iMac (with an SSD and more RAM) was fine for this use case.

I spent a long time looking at the M1s. I am sure they are "the future" but none of them worked for me. The mini does not have the web cam. The Macbook Pro is not good value compared to the Air. The Air is the best of the bunch - but for now I still have some use to squeeze out of my early 2015 Air. It makes far more sense to replace the Air in a year or two with a 2nd or 3rd generation M1.

My iMac is one of my most loved computers, and after 10 years of daily use I really don't want to not be in-front of an iMac for a big chuck of my screen time.

Yesterday Amazon dropped the price of the base 2020 27inch to £1400 from £1799 that is a 22% saving (today it is back up to £1648). That was too good an offer to miss. My list of reasons for sticking to Intel:

1) The iMac as in Intel build has been tuned for years.
2) The only upgrade I want on a Mac is the put more RAM in. This is the only Mac I can do this on. BTW I hear the arguments that the RAM dynamic will change with the M1s - so this upgradability is maybe not a concern for the future.
3) My windows box is my main 3D PC, but I like to be able to use the iMac when the PC is stuck doing some rendering or simulation. The apps I use are mostly going to be emulated on M1 for sometime to come (Houdini, Modo, Blender, Syntheyes, Nuke, Maya, Substance for example)
4) I think the chance of only 1 or 2 years support for intel Macs to be very small - there are just too many of them out there. Yes they will stop selling them. I don't think the PowerPC comparisons are helpful - that was a long time ago and I am sure there were orders of magnitude less PowerPCs in the world than Intel (speculation). I don't expect hardware to be supported for ever. The 5 - 7 year window people refer to for Mac support I think is fine, and I have a high degree of confidence that is what Intel Macs will get. Plus the apps I use need to run on PCs so the likelyhood that I can only run an old version of an App in a few years time on a still supported Intel Macs is very unlikely. Indeed it is more likely some will be forever emulated.

So I am discounting all the don't buy an Intel Mac noise, and am very much looking forward to going from a 2011 to a 2020 iMac.

If you are happy with your decision, OP, that is all that really matters. Given your workflow situation, it seems logical to me.

 

[wilberforce]

Resale prices have been practically slashed in half over night. I firmly belieft that a few years from now Intel Macs, be it Minis, Airs, Pros or iMacs, will be practically worthless and sell for scrap metal.

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
I suggest: Don't Panic!

 

[Arctic Moose]

In my opinion, resale value should not be part of the buying equation, seeing now computers are not investments. If one needs resale in order to buy a new computer, I believe one should reassess one's spending practices.

Buying a computer and selling it just before it is replaced by a new model typically allows you to upgrade for very little.

I did this with my MacBooks for ten years or so, and probably lost less than $200 on each “trade”.

Good luck doing that with a 2020 iMac.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Buying a computer and selling it just before it is replaced by a new model typically allows you to upgrade for very little.

I did this with my MacBooks for ten years or so, and probably lost less than $200 on each “trade”.

Good luck doing that with a 2020 iMac.

I am not against what you did. I just think that it should not be a part of the new purchase equation. Any money gained from a sale should be seen as found money, in my opinion. A lot of people in Apple land are big on resale value etc. and fail to take into consideration, that they (most times) are still losing money. It is just that they won't be losing as much money if they get money for a private sale.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Now days, I know way too many people getting scammed on Ebay. A relative of mine was just scammed recently. Buyer bought, abused device, complained, ebay sided with buyer. Device returned in worse condition than originally sold.

I was lucky to get almost 50% of my 2015 MBA when I sold it to Apple. Same for my 2017 MBP. Yeah you CAN get more selling elsewhere but the risk goes up exponentially.

 

[nathansz]

the intel Macs in a few years will probably lose a lot of resale value once everyone gets used to the increased performance of the M1, M1x. M2, M3. etc. etc. It will be similar to trying to sell an Oldsmobile.

Nope, they won't go that low. I have clientele that will always be looking for the intel models

so which is it?

 

[Mac... nificent]

so which is it?

Both. Currently, 2012 is a strong seller, but the M1x. M2, M3. etc. have yet to be announced yet, so there is no way to know if this trend will continue with the 2012s. Plus I'm sure (and I would hope) that the software that they need will be updated for the new "M" series by then.

 

[spidertaker23]

I agree with your reasonings to get a 2020 iMac I just did the same this week! Very much looking forward to my 27" iMac with 5700 XT 16GB and 1TB of storage .

I think the 2020 iMac is a great computer and will be support for at LEAST 5 years if not more.

For me the deciding factor is I want to play upcoming Blizzard games and they have been slowly dropping MacOS support from their games so if I wanted to play Diablo 4 or Diablo 2 Resurrected I need to be able to use Bootcamp and I wasn't willing to give up playing Diablo with mouse and keyboard and play them on my PS4. I have spent 100's of hours playing Diablo 3 since it released.

Perhaps in 5 years or so the Apple Silicon Macs with M series chips and possibly discrete Apple GPUs are released and developers start taking MacOS seriously for gaming performance and we start seeing games developed for MacOS / Metal, but I am not going to hold my breath . Hopefully, in 5 to 7 years I don't have to build another Windows PC. So bored of Windows.

 

[Ledgem]

Buying a computer and selling it just before it is replaced by a new model typically allows you to upgrade for very little.

I did this with my MacBooks for ten years or so, and probably lost less than $200 on each “trade”.

Good luck doing that with a 2020 iMac.

Out of curiosity, how often were you upgrading? Because if you were upgrading every 1-2 years then you actually either spent the same amount as or lost more overall compared with someone who holds onto their systems for a very long time.

 

[Arctic Moose]

For me the deciding factor is I want to play upcoming Blizzard games and they have been slowly dropping MacOS support from their games so if I wanted to play Diablo 4 or Diablo 2 Resurrected I need to be able to use Bootcamp and I wasn't willing to give up playing Diablo with mouse and keyboard and play them on my PS4.

This is the first argumentation for choosing Intel over M1 I have seen that has made any sense. 🙂

Out of curiosity, how often were you upgrading? Because if you were upgrading every 1-2 years then you actually either spent the same amount as or lost more overall compared with someone who holds onto their systems for a very long time.

I would typically time my sale based on rumors so that I could sell while the computer I had was still the current model on apple.com, just before a new model was released, which practically always succeeded.

I’m guessing on average I sold within 1-2 years counting desktops and laptops. Sure, over a 7-10 year period I would have paid for a new computer, but I always had the latest, and in many cases I wanted to upgrade anyhow. By my estimation I gained more than I lost.

For example, when I got the 2017 5K I wanted Thunderbolt 3, and also fixed my previous mistake of getting a Fusion Drive, sacrificing internal storage for a 2 TB SSD.

This also meant my computers were always under warranty, which came in handy a few times, and I never spent any money on AppleCare.