Napster vs iTunes: Superbowl Ad

[dicklacara]

Well, maybe they're counting on stupid people who don't read the requirements. Imagine the millions of iPod owners seeing the "$15/mo" price tag and wanting to try it out. They pay the (possibly non-refundable) $15 to start it out, but then they learn it's not compatible. Times that by a bunch of stupid people and Napster will get tons of money.

The fact that Napster is marketing this as if people will actually buy 10,000 songs from the iTMS shows that they don't think consumers are too bright. When I bought an iPod, my objective wasn't to fill it immediately, it is to put the best songs on it.

Quantity over quality, the Microsoft business model. I just don't think these businesses "get it."

Fishes,
narco.

I found some other quotes that seem to cover it!

There are only two things of importance. One is the customer, and the other is the product. If you take care of customers, they come back. If you take care of your product, it doesn't come back. It's just that simple. And it's just that difficult.
-Stanley Marcus

and

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.
-H. L. Mencken

 

[macmax77]

OT

I think my nbrothers had it with the PC world, he just had his computer, if we can call it that , infected with 600, yes, 600 little viruses.

The thing is at the shop now, man how can people put up with this?

By the way , how do you start your own thread here?

 

[Savage Henry]

By the way , how do you start your own thread here?

Try the New Thread button at the start of the forum ???

Alternatively FAQ .....

 

[dicklacara]

How do you find those good tracks that stand the test of time without wasting vast sums on rubbish, or restricting music to that preselected for you by someone else?

My first instinct is to want own the songs I like....

But, sonething in your long post. and the (longer) responses caught my eye.

I am 65 (a '50s child), my daughter & her husband 70's-80's people, and their kids 5,6, and 9 (i guess that means they will be 2Kteens, or somesuch).

Over XMAS we got new iMac G5s & combined our iTunes libraries (we already have iPods).

So, now we have thousands of songs-- songs from the '20s thru yesterday. Genres from Beer Drinking Songs, Rock, Shrek, whatever....

I ordered a shuffle the day of announce.

When the shuffle arrived, I started to copy my favorite songs from itunes, then.. what the hell, let iTunes pick the songs...

When I turned on the shuffle, I selected shuffle play, and then...

...It was a magical experience, really!

I played (and listened to) songs/artists/genres that I never would have pre-selected: When, you wish upon a star, T-Rex, 1812 Overture, Peter Gabriel, Garrison Keillor, Shake Rattle and Roll, Norah Jones, Gene Autry, Blame it on the bossa nova...

I heard songs that I forgot I had. It was like twirling the radio dial, listening to a song, twirling the dial again and a totally different type song.

It was, like RRRR (Random Radio Russian Roulette)... I never knew what was coming next.... just pull the trigger, and Bam!

I (mostly) missed the Beatles generation-- I liked a few songs, but couldn't identify a song by any of the artists after they broke up.

Then, it happened! In shuffled: "Man, We Was Lonely", by Paul McCartney & Wings.

Never heard it before! Never would have picked it to play!

Now, it is my favorite song!.... Until...

<final reel, tie it all together>
The point is: I "discovered" a new song, that I like a lot!

I would never have dloaded it from the ITMS (or even listened to the 30-second preview).

To be honest, I prolly wouldn't have dloaded it from Napster either!

I would buy, it now, though!

I want to keep it!

Sure, I already have an mp3 copy (on iTunes) that was prolly captured from a CD of my daughter's...(or, whatever . but I'd certainly pay for the enhanced audio you get from ITMS. (I have no problem paying for things I use, but dislike paying for things I don't use).

But, it isn't available on ITMS.

OK, here's the real point:

It would be neat if you could dload a random selection of, say, 100 songs, pop them into your iPod shuffle & discover new favorites. Then, later, go back and buy the ones you want.

Currently, you can't do this with either Apple or Napster:

-- the ability to play on the iPod Shuffle is key
-- the random selection of full-length, high-quality, free (trial) songs is key
-- the ability to buy what you like is key

Anybody Listening?

</final reel)

 

[aarchitect]

OK, here's the real point

My first instinct is to want own the songs I like....

[snip]

So, now we have thousands of songs-- songs from the '20s thru yesterday. Genres from Beer Drinking Songs, Rock, Shrek, whatever....

[snip]
I played (and listened to) songs/artists/genres that I never would have pre-selected: When, you wish upon a star, T-Rex, 1812 Overture, Peter Gabriel, Garrison Keillor, Shake Rattle and Roll, Norah Jones, Gene Autry, Blame it on the bossa nova...

I heard songs that I forgot I had. It was like twirling the radio dial, listening to a song, twirling the dial again and a totally different type song.

[snip]

I want to keep it!

[snip]

OK, here's the real point:.................

</final reel)

A great example of why Napster will not succeed. You said it all when you say you want to keep it. None of this would have ever happened under the "rental" plan. All of your great old tunes that you juxtaposed would have disappeared long ago. With Napster, when you stop subscribing, your music goes away. You don't own anything and, therefore, would never have the opportunity to rediscover music from your past.

How many times have you pulled a record or cd off the shelf that you forgot you owned and found something great. Napster doesn't want you to think about that, only the amount you can consume in the here and now.

cheers,

the aarchitect

 

[narco]

i rekon apple should do a counter ad.

"who the hell would want to rent their bloody music, not own it!"

I don't think it's Apple's style to counter the ad. Usually when people use this method of advertising, it's free advertising for the competitor, and it shows desperation.

Fishes,
narco.

 

[dicklacara]

A great example of why Napster will not succeed. You said it all when you say you want to keep it. None of this would have ever happened under the "rental" plan. All of your great old tunes that you juxtaposed would have disappeared long ago. With Napster, when you stop subscribing, your music goes away. You don't own anything and, therefore, would never have the opportunity to rediscover music from your past.

How many times have you pulled a record or cd off the shelf that you forgot you owned and found something great. Napster doesn't want you to think about that, only the amount you can consume in the here and now.

cheers,

the aarchitect

Well, Yes and Yes!

I want to keep it!

But, I only discovered it because it came from "outside" my iTunes world, when I combined it with my daughter's and her kids iTunes.

I rarely listen to music on the radio or even on the stereo (thousands of LPs, cassettes, etc).

The song "Man We Was Lonely" isn't even on ITMS-- don't know about Napster.

I certainly wouldnt look for random songs in a record store or on a p2p network!

So how do i "discover" a new song?

And, when I do, How can I buy it and get it into my iTunes and on my iPod?

BTW, Shrek is pretty funny & so is Orson Welles doing a commercial on Frozen Peas... both discoverys!

 

[rjwill246]

Once you're hooked

Napster is counting on one thing... get you started and then 'hook' you forever. Once you have paid for six months or so and possibly downloaded a hundred tracks, the idea of losing 90 bucks of investment by NOT paying your next month's subscription will start to drive you crazy. Your choice is to keep on paying or cut your losses. Napster hopes you will keep on paying rather than throw away all your songs and your increasingly substantial investment. It is, in the long run, a very bad model for the consumer and a great one for Napster if they can sucker people in. Imagine having subscribed for two years and your computer goes belly-up... what's the remedy cause I couldn't find one on Napster with a quick perusal of their terms? Or you simply want to change computers or... platforms?
With iTMS you can have solid copies of your music, change platforms and computers. Anybody seriously arguing for Napster must really believe that casinos and race-tracks are a good way to protect and grow your investments.

 

[dicklacara]

..So, I shuffled over to Napster. To se what they had!

Couldn't find "Man we was lonely", Paul McCartney & wings...

... wouldn't have made my "discovery" there...

Tried searching for some specific songs/versions that I have been looking for forever:

-Lovey By the Clovers circa 1960

-Elusive Butterfly By Carmen McRae circa 1975

Or may be digital versions of songs I ripped from LP or got from p2p

-Let me be there By Olivia Newton John circa 1978

-Louis Collins By Jerry Garcia

No luck on any of these.... mmm...

Well, let's be fair... I'll download the trial...

Oops, PC only.

Not for me!

So the Napster marketplace is for:

100% of the personal computers, times:

1) 95% of the computers that are PCs
2) a% of these that are for home/personal use
3) b% of these which represent a household (you wouldn't buy napster for each pc you own)
4) c% of these who care about digital music
5) d% of these who aren't committed to iTunes
6) e% of these who aren't committed to iPods
7) f% of these who don't need/care to own their songs
8) g% of these who can find enough of what they are looking for to sustain a $15/mo subscription to Napster
9) h% of these who will

If one knew the percentages, it would be interesting to do the math...

From Napster's perspective it must look like the law of diminishing marketplace.

 

[wdlove]

I think my nbrothers had it with the PC world, he just had his computer, if we can call it that , infected with 600, yes, 600 little viruses.

The thing is at the shop now, man how can people put up with this?

By the way , how do you start your own thread here?

In this particular Sub Forum only staff can start a new thread. Every place else, it's no problem. Just be sure to check that your particular subject hasn't already been covered.

 

[billystlyes]

iTunes could add a sub/model plan easy! Apple should do it as well as movies!

 

[elgruga]

Currently, you can't do this with either Apple or Napster:

-- the ability to play on the iPod Shuffle is key
-- the random selection of full-length, high-quality, free (trial) songs is key
-- the ability to buy what you like is key



</final reel)

Good point!

Napster is a Gatesian crock.

But Apple could further improve the iTMS experience by creating a partial subscriber/trial service, much like what the quote above says.

That may evolve - we are still early in this whole digital music thing.
What I do know is that I am listening to more music than EVER before, and that is because of the iPod. I am on my third.
I actually have never purchased a song off iTMS, but I might in the future.

Napster's thing is also strangely short-term in feel; just the way Windows always seems to me - as if its going to break/disappear/cant be trusted kind of feel.
And if you stop sending them your hard-earned cash - it will just disappear.

Just the way bill gates took his cash and now wanders around the world playing the King of Philanthropy.......

Of course, napster is just a stock play, nothing to do with music at all, just a way for investors to get the share price up and cash in.

Or, as we call it in Canada, 'Pump and Dump'.

 

[elgruga]

So the Napster marketplace is for:

100% of the personal computers, times:

1) 95% of the computers that are PCs
2) a% of these that are for home/personal use
3) b% of these which represent a household (you wouldn't buy napster for each pc you own)
4) c% of these who care about digital music
5) d% of these who aren't committed to iTunes
6) e% of these who aren't committed to iPods
7) f% of these who don't need/care to own their songs
8) g% of these who can find enough of what they are looking for to sustain a $15/mo subscription to Napster
9) h% of these who will

If one knew the percentages, it would be interesting to do the math...

From Napster's perspective it must look like the law of diminishing marketplace.

Compliments on an excellent post!

Sell your napster shares soon!

 

[itsa]

I don't think it's Apple's style to counter the ad. Usually when people use this method of advertising, it's free advertising for the competitor, and it shows desperation.

Fishes,
narco.

I agree... very well put!

 

[Phobophobia]

Compliments on an excellent post!

Sell your napster shares soon!

Sell? I'd rather short the hell out of them once the hype dies down.

 

[dicklacara]

Compliments on an excellent post!

Sell your napster shares soon!

Compliments on your complements

This one of the best, most insightful threads I've seen-- MacRumors or elsewhere.

I am becoming convinced that the "rental" dynamic doesn't make sense for music.... rather the "try before you buy" seems like a winner.

That would be just a better way to reach more people & expose them to your product(s).

Another related topic. I did buy (and still have) some NetFlix shares when the Mac mini rumors started. Many (including me) perceive this to be Apple's entre into the home Video market.

I think Netflix has the infrastructure and could be bought by Apple for less than 1/2 billion dollars... giving Apple an instant Market presence and customer base.

We use NetFlix and it is great!

I think an electronic version would be fantastic-- dload Video ala the iTMS.

Now, this is where subscription rental seems to make sense:

-I prolly don't want to own most of the movies I see

-If several months later, I want to see it again, I just dload/rent it again

-Except for taking my laptop on a long plane trip, I really wouldn't view a movie on a portable player.

-I do want the convenience of getting movies on demand without the inconvenience of visiting the video store, wasting time & $ just to get there and back

- DVD (Download View Destroy) movie distribution would just be a more responsive & flexible implementation of the NetFlix model

On the occasion that I did want to own the DVD i would would be happy to have the option to pay additional to burn a real DVD. In addition I would like to be able to buy a digital copy of the album art so I could put it all in a crystal case.

I could even buy the option to give this movie to others (elecrtonically or burn another real DVD).

Lots of possibilities, here!

Dick

 

[paulsecic]

Can these Napster music files be shared with other computers? Apples itunes music files can be shared with other computers right? (limited number?)

I agree that not being able to use the downloaded music in any other app would really be a drawback for me. I use all my downloads in DVD's Movies etc.

I would think that this sales approach would benefit the average downloader who doesn't do much else but listen to there (ugly) mp3 music player.

Yes with Microsoft approved devices, but you still have to pay a monthly fee! CDS are a better value!

 

[billystlyes]

I agree... very well put!

"I don't think it's Apple's style to counter the ad. Usually when people use this method of advertising, it's free advertising for the competitor, and it shows desperation.

Fishes,
narco. "



I'll second that!

 

[paulsecic]

*shrugs* Don't really care. Apparently Napster wasn't paying attention during the Divxx vs. DVD wars. There WAS a reason why Divxx got stomped by DVD. Napster will just be another speedbump in the continuing spiral of pay to play services. Some people will use it because of their music preferences but most won't.

I really thought Divixx was stupid. And I was right!

 

[Calihafan]

Napster sucks...

Napster's ad campaign so blindly misses the point its like missing a wall from a foot away. First of all, anyone with a 10,000 song player is not someone who is going to be buying all of their music... they are audiophiles with a complete collection. So to say that someone who spends $400 on a player is then going to invest $10000 in music is completely insane.

Besides, the legendary ease of use that accompanies iTunes and iPod is what makes people pay the "premium," if such a thing exists. It could be argued.

If anything is going to take down the iPod, it has got to be something sexy, sleek, and usable. So far no company has managed to do this.

Calihafan

 

[newsound]

OT, But...

BTW, Shrek is pretty funny & so is Orson Welles doing a commercial on Frozen Peas... both discoverys!

Can you tell me where you got the Orson Welles Frozen Peas from? This was floating around recording studios decades ago, and my copy got destroyed. I would love to have it again. Also, Pinky and the Brains version of it it a scream!

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Here's a completely different perspective from someone that has no CD collection and no interest in P2P for sharing music. Neither iTunes nor Napster caters to my tastes in music - those being modules and video game music.

iTMS appeal (out of 10): 0
Napster appeal (out of 10): 0
Video Game Music (VGM for short) in original (ripped) format appeal (out of 10): 10
Module music (.MOD, .IT, .S3M, .XM, .669, .FAR, .ULT, etc.) appeal (out of 10): 10

Therefore, I keep the iTMS hidden in my copy of iTunes.

-wrldwzrd89

 

[QuiteSure]

The Art of the Seductive Mix Tape

In the great movie High Fidelity there is a discussion about the perfect mix tape to give to your girlfriend. A mix tape was always one of my favorite things to give to a girl I was interested in, hoping to share some feelings about the world around me in a non-threatening way.

Of course, iTunes has brought the mix to a new artform in its playlists. Truly wonderful opportunities to combine songs.

But with the Napster model, how can you combine the songs to impress the girl? You can't burn them because you would then be able to own them.

If you can't help me impress the girl then you can't get my money. It's as simple as that.

 

[dvdh]

[yawn] . . .and I still buy most of my music on vinyl . . .[/yawn]

Wake me up when something really ground breaking happens.

 

[dicklacara]

Can you tell me where you got the Orson Welles Frozen Peas from? This was floating around recording studios decades ago, and my copy got destroyed. I would love to have it again. Also, Pinky and the Brains version of it it a scream!

That's the beauty of it -- I don't know where it came from. It was on our combined library. It prolly came from p2p. There are lots of things like that, say, the Swedish Chef, Perry Mason, Wonder Woman, etc. that are floating around out there.

I never heard of Pinky and the Brains until your post??

I am looking for some old Jean Shepherd's America TV epesodes that I would gladly buy if I could find them: Beer; the mail-order house; Pogo; Wealth -- "Who's picture is on the $1,000 bill? You probably have one in your wallet. Pull it out now and look at the picture..."

Some of this stuff you can't find anywhere.

I googled for Pinky and the Brains and had lots of hits. Then I checked LimeWire for both Orson Welles & Pinky and the Brains-- hits on both.