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jettredmont said:
However, I do see the likelihood of people getting thoroughly duped by this, which I really don't like seeing.

I agree. I had to search for a bit before I figured out that you had to keep paying $15/month or else you'd lose *everything.*

Napsters tutorial site (About Napster To Go) has no mention of it. All it says is:

ABOUT NAPSTER TO GO™

With Napster To Go you can take your choice of over a million tracks anywhere. Fill and refill your MP3 player with music as often as you like.

With Napster to Go you can:

# Listen to, download and transfer an unlimited amount of music without paying by track or album
# Find your favorite artists and discover new music

System Requirements for Napster To Go:

# Windows XP and Windows Media Player 10 are required
# You will also need a compatible MP3 player

Click here to see the full list of devices.

Nowhere on that page does it say that if you stop subscribing, you lose the ability to play all of your downloaded music, or that if you want to keep any song you have to pay $1 each.

Kinda being deceptive to me. Probably hoping people won't notice before it's too late and they've already given Napster their $15.
 
HumanJHawkins said:
Seriously? I though Eminem was supposed to be pissed at Apple (and suing them) for using one of his songs in their comercial without his consent (and apparently after he flat out told them they couldn't use it)

Not sure which came first, but he used an iPod mini in the video. The song Apple used without permission was for a switch ad (which was a while back), so who knows. Plus Eminem isn't pissed at Apple, his lawyers are.

Fishes,
narco.
 
I've heard a lot about trying or testing out music with this subscription service. And primarily, this is what Napster/every other subscription service is claiming. The iTMS does this, but for only 30 seconds. What if Apple decided to give users the whole track preview? How big do you think the game would change if iTunes did do this?

Napster probably wouldn't be able to use the 'try out new music' point anymore. (This pertains if a person can stand to open up iTunes, go to the store, find the song, wait for buffering and sit at their computer for the whole song... some may not.)
 
sw1tcher said:
=Nowhere on that page does it say that if you stop subscribing, you lose the ability to play all of your downloaded music, or that if you want to keep any song you have to pay $1 each.

Kinda being deceptive to me. Probably hoping people won't notice before it's too late and they've already given Napster their $15.

Tis the ultra-small print.

"*It is necessary to maintain a Napster subscription in order to continue access to songs downloaded through the Napster service."

... and the computer illiterate says: "wha?"

Fishes,
narco.
 
Featured Napster players are 5GB models

The Napster site is prominently displaying two 5GB MP3 players for use with this service (don't forget your firmware/driver upgrades!).

So, only about 1200 songs (assuming 240 per GB) ... not really comparable to a 40GB iPod.

Being in Australia, still don't know what the fuss about downloading from iTunes is ... everything I get is on good ol' CD - nice & permanent.
 
narco said:
Tis the ultra-small print.

"*It is necessary to maintain a Napster subscription in order to continue access to songs downloaded through the Napster service."

... and the computer illiterate says: "wha?"

Fishes,
narco.

Yes, I know about the fine print. I found it eventually. Maybe I missed it when I was scrolling through the page quickly. But the point I was making is that it's not right there where it should be, at the top of the page where it tells you how to use the Napster To Go service.
 
gotta chime in

I usually don't say anything. I just read but in this case I gotta say something.

This Napster thing of "renting" your music for $15.00 a month is stupid. I would rather spend the money with iTunes so I can keep the music. Why would anyone want to "rent" their music? Especially if you are force to use a Windows based computer to play them?

Just my two cents.
 
stupid consumers

Ugh, who the hell would pay Napster so they can hawk your personal listening habits.

This may have already been mentioned, but the "service" uploads the stats of your usage at the end of each month.

You better believe that when Napster needs some profits, they will sell their consumer information to the highest bidder. -How often different artists are listened to in groups, how often certain artists are listened to each day, and that John Doe in Anytown is a big fan of these 10 performers. :eek:
 
retromac said:
Hey might as well do it. At least when they are MP3's they will want to buy the iPod, since the iPod rocks all players.

Which does Apple make more money on?

iTunes Songs or iPods? I'm thinking iTunes??... :eek:

whoa, i don't know if this isn't common knowledge or anything, but Apple makes almost zilch off of the iTMS. the reason they push it so much is because it sells ipods. and ipods sell apple. and apple sells a lot more than just ipods. The record companies want their money. In a related note, not to bring up old news, but I personally think Apple should buy out the Beatles' record label rights. just some food for thought.
 
Napster says:
"Do the Math. How much will it cost to fill up your player?"....

I think:
Well let's be real about it, for most users it costs NOTHING to fill up their mp3 players in one way or another.
So the way music is offered doesn't matter when you buy an iPod or similar, so you buy the player you like and most people prefer the iPod.

Only then they may start to use a online music service, and that service is iTunes.
 
Here's a horrible thought for those people who go with Napster....

What if it shuts down shop in a year or two or even more? All those songs no longer playable. All that subscription money wasted. And you'll probably go to an iTMS or CD retailer and grudgingly buy all the music you already had - swearing that you'd ever subscribe again.
 
Napster says:

Do the Math. How much will it cost to fill up your player?

What I hear:

Do the math. Do you really need a 20 or 40Gb iPod? You'll never fill it all with music. Get a mini or a shuffle if that's all you want it for.

:p :D
 
dejo said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Michael Jackson owns all the rights to the Beatles' music.

He does, but he's been slowly selling them off to pay his legal debts. But then again, since everyone knows Paul is the worst Beatle, I'd rather have Michael own them.

I say give them to Ringo. The only two good Beatles are dead, but at least Ringo was OK.

Fishes,
narco.
 
eradlmann said:
3. Napster's marketing will be $30,000,000. It will require roughly $90,000,000 in subscription fees to pay that off. That's about 500,000 subscribers for a year. My math isn't perfect, but is that what they meant by do the math?

This is what I don't get. Apple has said numerous times that iTunes stores only make a small profit, and it's main purpose is to sell iPods.

Napster are relying on downloads alone to make their money. With the running costs and the huge cost of advertising (I've no idea on the actual figures here), I would have though they need a serious amount of subscribers for the next 20 years just to break even.

I do think that this service will suit some people, and some will get duped by these adverts - but not the amount that Napster are hoping for or need.

Basically, Napster are offering a $15 a month, commercial-free radio station.
 
dejo said:
Wow. Who'da thunk it? ;)



Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Michael Jackson owns all the rights to the Beatles' music.

MJ doesn't own all the rights, he owns the publishing rights with Sony. Everytime someone wants to print the lyrics, maybe even the titles, to a Beatles song they have to pay MJ and Sony a royality. The recordings themselves I still believe are owned by Apple Corp and in North America, Capital Records has those rights. Now if Apple Computers bought Apple then they probably could sell the Beatles recordings online though they would have to pay Capital Records something. Owning the publishing rights would generate revenue and decrease the cost of selling the recordings but would do nothing more. Besides Sony has firsts dibs on buying MJ out regarding the publishing rights. Basically, the complete ownership rights to the collection is complicated. From what I understand the estates of the former Beatles and the remaining living Beatles currently do not want the music sold online which might preclude them from selling the company to Apple Computers.
 
If I know Apple, Steve Jobs is personally going over the final stages of editing one of the four ads, maybe people have died trying to get his information from the empire...

I can't help myself! :D

*breathes heavily*
 
Firstly, apologies, this is a long post!

Two separate issues are discussed here:

1) The implementation
2) The mechanism

While the first is currently pretty expensive and being offered by a company unlikely to find much favour on a mac bullitin board, the actual value depends on your attitude to music. Would you subscribe if it was $10 a month? How about $5? How about paying $0.10 for a track for a month? It's about finding the right balance so that the cheapest option for your music purchasing habits.

The second point is more important - Napster may come and go, other services be offered alongside, pricing structure and limitations can change, but the point about people wanting to (or not) rent music is one of perception.
For my own view, a subscription service is something that is actually quite temting, much more so that one like iTunes.

Thinking back to the heady, halcyon days of the original Napster, evolving to Kazaa, Gnutella et al. before they all got swamped and filled with poor quality and deliberately distorted garbage. Many people gorged themselves on limitless free music. This wasn't going to go on forever and sure enough the law has been catching up. But it instilled a new attitude towards music and one commercial ventures are trying to tame. Music is disposable - listen once, never again. If you are someone who still listens to all or most of the CDs you bought from a few years back, stop reading now. I don't. Very few people I know do. I have simply deleted hundreds of files I downloaded back then and I am very glad I didn't pay for them. Their value to me was $0.05 not $0.99 (not that there was the option of paying anyway!).

I look back on the music from just a year or two ago and genuinely fail, in 80% of the cases, the understand what I saw in it - like an ex that tore out your heart, you look back and see them for the slag or ****** they really are.

Music, imho, is becoming like the DVD you rent, I look at the DVD's I have bought (£10 - £15 a go) and there are maybe 2 or 3 I have actually saved money on. Entertainment for an hour, not for life. CDs I bought are the same, never listen to. Waste. Of. Money.

It is this attitude, not the music, that Napster is trying to sell. It makes sense to rent most of your music because genres, bands, songs are merely transient. (important Note : some are not, of course, there are classics but these survive the rental test and are worth purchasing in the flesh). Music provision is no longer a sale, it is a service, like cable, broadband, phone, electricity, or a mobile phone.

Lastly, consider the past and future of music.
Sony revolutionised music with the Walkman because it meant you could take your music with you.
Apple have revolutionised music with the iPod because it meant you could take all your music with you.
Over the next few years, with WiFi / WiMax access points everywhere, a WiFi enabled player and a subscription, you can take all music with you.

Using Crapster over a broadband connection is (OK, should be ;) ) not a matter of downloading some carefully selected tracks or meticulously building a playlist - music nerds have plenty on offer already, but you can still do that if you want - it is downloading 100+ tracks a week. It is unlimited broadband compared to dial-up. No planning downloads, no worrying about remote files or filesystems, it's "there" on your computer at the click of a mouse. Stop being discerning about your tastes and dive in, music is not a luxury, is not a quality product, it is cheap throwaway pap (broad generalisation, again!) - how many people archive their ringtones?

It is your radio, whatever music you want, whenever you want it.
Get the top 50 pop / dance / indie chart, get <your music hero>'s all time top 100. Get 100 recommended songs and rate them for next week's 100 personalised recommendations. Some may be on your hard drive already, some can be downloaded while you listen in a matter of seconds. Filled your hard disk? Just delete the rubbish you don't listen to (or even automatically by least last played and erase your cache) it only take a few seconds if you ever want it back. (Napster could even share the bandwidth, utilising people's own cache and upstream bandwidth DRM on P2P with $2 off a month if you do)

You simply browse the tunes and playlists, click on whatever you want to listen too and off you go. You want it, you get it. Want to fill up your tryPod for a weeks holiday? Grab a bunch of tracks and head off into the sunset. Having a party and getting abuse for your taste in tunes? Whatever your mates want to listen to, they can have ... no extra cost. Partner's parents round for dinner? impress them with the opera you would never buy in a hundred years. Writing a report? Grab a 'soothing' playlist and let it run while you type.
To me, the potential is there to return to the good old days of gorging yourself (in a slighty more honest fashion!).

Sorry, this has gone on waaaay to long but, actual implementation aside, I can see this could be a fantastic way to get music.
 
My Math

5 GB compatible MP3 players? That's not very large. And I don't think that's worth $15. So, that math is bad.

I also have over 80GB of music - ripping old cds, other methods, but almost none of it from iTunes (sure, I think I bought the single "Hey ya") So, I don't need to invest more. Apple is assuming most people have this library (gotten through one way or another) by the time they get a player...

As we move forward and as DRM becomes more important, or say the music players don't let un-DRMed music play on their MP3 players, new users won't have that large of library, and a subscription would make sense. Not over 30 years, but it makes sense.
 
i miss ascii art sometimes

VicMacs said:
napster?

keep on sleeping buddy... ZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZ

Z__________zZZZz__________zZZ__ZZz__________zZZZ
Z_________ Z____Z__________ZZZ_ZZZ__________ZZZZ
Z_________ Z____Z__________ZZZZZZZ__________ZZ
Z_________ ZZZZZ__________ZZ__z_ZZ__________ZZZZ
Z_________ Z____Z__________ZZ___ZZ__________ZZ
Z_________ Z____Z__________ZZ___ZZ__________ZZZZ
ZZZZZ_____Z____Z__________ZZ___ZZ__________zZZZ


took me a while to do it yeah...

:p

hey ascii art, retro cool, sweet dude :D especially since its a non-fixed-width font
 
AlmostThere said:
Typical, rant for ages and then an analogy pops into your head!

My view - Napster simply offers time-shifted TV with every programme ever made but with music. You want the service, you subscribe.

Is that something you would get if it was offered?

I say pretty attractive option.

I would.
 
I can't imagine that Apple won't counter this with the "you own your music" argument somehow, somewhere.

And yeah, I looked at the Napster site yesterday and tried to find ANYTHING about owning your music...it's apparently in the EULA.
 
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