National Association of Broadcasters Again Urges Apple to Add FM Radio to iPhones

[techwhiz]

I love my iPhone but...It's all about choice!

There is plenty of quality programming on worldwide FM...and it's all FREE! Considering what consumers pay for these devices and how easily this feature could be enabled, the intentional omission of FM radio is a huge letdown. Most people don't walk around with a separate FM receiver. In a major emergency (not exactly unforeseeable nowadays) FM radio is far more resilient and robust than the cellular system or WiFi.

IMO, the reason Apple cripples the capability is threefold:
1. Reception requires at least an 18" external wire antenna (EarPods would work fine) - but this would directly contradict Apple's leading the charge away from wired anything.
2. They have a vested interest selling paid streaming services in Apple Music.
3. Customers listening to free radio spend less time making purchases in the iTunes and App Stores.

In other words....There's nothing in it for them!

You actually left out one important thing.
The carriers themselves don't want FM Radio included.
Verizon phones that would normally have the function have it crippled.
The unlocked LG G6 (US997) has FM fully working including the tuning app.
The same phone, with the same hardware, does not include the app or software drivers to make it work.
Was this LG? Nope Verizon.
So before we all start blaming Apple, Samsung, LG, etc. The carriers have a lot to be accountable for because they ask that the functionality be turned off. Here again, they don't get money from you listening to FM, but they do earn money directly from TuneIn Radio and iHeart Radio because it uses data.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Depends on the timeline; if Apple obliterated it going forward and removed such a redundant thing from the iPhone and all thing going forward then yes you'd would say it's dead to them.

However if a CarPlay system that's supported by Apple has FM (even by proxy, you think Apple are unaware?) then they can't pretend they don't have an obligation to support it on one devise but not another.

You're trolling me right? You think because a device that Apple doesn't manufacture has support for an old tech Apple hasn't spec'ed but happens to run Apple software on top of the software native to that device, that Apple then has to support that system everywhere else in their ecosystem??? Just wow.

So by your "logic" Apple should also support Android on the iPhone because many of those same third party manufacturers also support Android Auto on the same devices. Or since Safari used to run on Windows, then Apple must support write operations to NTFS from MacOS. At this point you've gone so far into the ludicrous I can't even continue with you. It's a pointless endeavor.

 

[ghettogodzilla]

I find the governments push for this alarming, as if there is an alternative motive. Doesnt seem to be about "security" or it would be a push across the majority of electronics, and as described there are already multiple security offering on the device. This makes me want apple to not add this in any models and will make me think twice before buying products that do.

 

[s15119]

Going with a logical fallacy to imply a logical fallacy...best of luck to you.
[doublepost=1508449727][/doublepost]
Kind of like could have been done with the flashlight, and yet it's there.

WOW - Just wow. hint: apple is NOT going to add a radio to your phone and they didn't need to add a flashlight. Have a nice life. WOW!

 

[smashmarc]

You actually left out one important thing.
The carriers themselves don't want FM Radio included.
Verizon phones that would normally have the function have it crippled.
The unlocked LG G6 (US997) has FM fully working including the tuning app.
The same phone, with the same hardware, does not include the app or software drivers to make it work.
Was this LG? Nope Verizon.
So before we all start blaming Apple, Samsung, LG, etc. The carriers have a lot to be accountable for because they ask that the functionality be turned off. Here again, they don't get money from you listening to FM, but they do earn money directly from TuneIn Radio and iHeart Radio because it uses data.

Great point! And it makes perfect sense - from the carriers' one-sided perspective.

 

[falainber]

You actually left out one important thing.
The carriers themselves don't want FM Radio included.
Verizon phones that would normally have the function have it crippled.
The unlocked LG G6 (US997) has FM fully working including the tuning app.
The same phone, with the same hardware, does not include the app or software drivers to make it work.
Was this LG? Nope Verizon.
So before we all start blaming Apple, Samsung, LG, etc. The carriers have a lot to be accountable for because they ask that the functionality be turned off. Here again, they don't get money from you listening to FM, but they do earn money directly from TuneIn Radio and iHeart Radio because it uses data.

Government can help Verizon understand their mistakes too but not before Apple enables FM in iPhone.

 

[C DM]

WOW - Just wow. hint: apple is NOT going to add a radio to your phone and they didn't need to add a flashlight. Have a nice life. WOW!

WOW indeed. Enjoy.

 

[Williesleg]

An ideal FM ¼ wave antenna is about 2.5 feet. Anything smaller will result in poor signal performance, and likely a host of complaints to Apple. Sure you can pick up signals with a nail, however they will need to be strong, and very susceptible to interference.

AM however, could be achieved with a bar antenna housed inside the device, but, that would take up considerable space by itself.

Besides that, is there a straight passthrough connection through the lightning connector that would allow such a signal? I think the only way that Apple could do this is to have a special lightning cable that would allow antenna signals through the port. Remember there are chips / micro-circuits in lightning cables. They aren’t straight wires like the old 30 pin connectors. Perhaps they could use the shielding or GND lead, but there would need to be circuitry added to protect the SOC from ESD and other risks.



Actually AM radio antennas could likely be in device. A small Bar antenna for AM reception can be made small, but, still take up a sizable space in modern devices.

We can argue semantics all day but the fact of the matter is a properly tuned antenna is essential for transmission. Reception is a whole different thing. I can receive a ton of frequencies on my RTL-SDR with any arbitrary wire plugged into the antenna port, including FM. Sensitive receivers compensate for crappy antennas. I'd be willing to bet the chipset has one heck of a nicely engineered receiver. Now would I actually use an FM radio in my iPhone? Probably not. But it would be nice in an emergency. I think that's how this whole adventure started. Someone said turn them on and we got into this whole political pissing match, and we all suffer. Thanks Obama
[doublepost=1508459804][/doublepost]

Do you know where your wired earbuds are?

Hee hee yeah, plugged into my DJ Ditty with FM receiver built in. Thanks Dell Dude!

 

[s15119]

WOW indeed. Enjoy.

Sorry, it's just that your "logic" is laughable. I know, you thought it was quite clever. You're wrong. Peace and love.

 

[C DM]

Sorry, it's just that your "logic" is laughable. I know, you thought it was quite clever. Your wrong. Peace and love.

Yup, you too.

 

[chelsel]

I purchased a Sagem phone in the late 90's (in France) that was GSM, supported Bluetooth and had a built-in FM radio. It was smaller than an iPhone. I don't see any technical reason Apple can't do this. I can only see a business reason, which is to not cannibalize Apple Music streaming and subscriptions. The FM capability is also I believe already built into the radio chipset that Apple is using in the iPhone (too tired to double check this reference, but I'm quite certain).

Cliff

 

[840quadra]

We can argue semantics all day but the fact of the matter is a properly tuned antenna is essential for transmission. Reception is a whole different thing. I can receive a ton of frequencies on my RTL-SDR with any arbitrary wire plugged into the antenna port, including FM. Sensitive receivers compensate for crappy antennas. I'd be willing to bet the chipset has one heck of a nicely engineered receiver. Now would I actually use an FM radio in my iPhone? Probably not. But it would be nice in an emergency. I think that's how this whole adventure started. Someone said turn them on and we got into this whole political pissing match, and we all suffer. Thanks Obama

That’s great, but your RTL-SDR isn’t also sending and receiving multiple bands of LTE, CDMA, Wifi, Bluetooth, and NFC, as well as dealing with wireless charging. All of those items have to be factored in when enabling sections of bandwidth on the DSP.

And with regards to what you are commenting on , it is called gain. Sure you can receive strong signals with a basic wire, but it is incomparable to a proper antenna tuned for the spectrum you are attempting to listen to. Also, while you can turn up the sensitivity, such a general DSP is also going to struggle handling spikes in the spectrum, thus being more susceptible to intermodulation interference. In general terms, you will amplify noise, and produce clear audio of that strong interference.

Radio waivelengths are relative to the frequency, and receiving such frequencies is dependent on fractions of that wavelength. There really aren’t good ways around that. A strong signal, like strong interference, will work close range, outside of that it is a total crapshoot based on many variables.

All of this aside, we are limited (on iOS phones) to the Lightning port, a port that utilizes cables with small imbedded SOC systems, and IIRC they don’t pass through a contiguous line that could act as an antenna.

 

[kdarling]

...
So before we all start blaming Apple, Samsung, LG, etc. The carriers have a lot to be accountable for because they ask that the functionality be turned off.

That only excuses phone makers who customize per carrier.

However, Apple is famous for supposedly NOT catering to carrier whims.

 

[steve333]

Really. Tell me why Mr. Cook spends many many millions of dollars each year developing new Ax processor chips, producing the industry's best and fastest, year after year? Apple is so far ahead in that area it sure would be easy to significantly roll that development back and put those saved development and older parts dollars into profits.

Really? Tell me why Apple discontinued the still popular ipods?
Stop drinking the Cook Koolaid

 

[T.j.p.]

Dear NAB. Please add cell tower capabilities for emergency use to all your member radio stations. Please include LTE or better data. This will save lives. And there are fewer radio stations than cell phones, and there are known solutions for you to accomplish this. It will be cheaper overall, and have a more positive effect on emergency response.

Oh by the way, the FCC precipitated this at your behest in a natural disaster that took out every single FM station in the disaster area, after months before the FCC neutered the AM station that was the islands long distance station over an administrative error. While the FM stations were down the now limited range AM station was up.

And as cell phones would be dead within about a day, and there was no power on the island still available, the cell phone with an FM radio would be useless. USELESS.

A better alternative would be to set up temporary communications "islands" where people could meet, recharge portable devices, obtain batteries, etc. Oh, and communicate about the situation.

I personally have a Crane hand crank radio (led flashlight on a long lead and USB charging included). It receives AM, FM some shortwave, and the all important, much more so than FM thank you very much, WEATHER 'band'. I recommend one for every one.

Crane doesn't seem to have the cell charger model on Amazon anymore, but a competitor does.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A21DQA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AMH4W1K8OCGMX&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WS6SKTM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
or a different Crane one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F5II1I?psc=1

Solves the radio problem and the cell phone charging problem at the same time.

FM receiver without FM station is useless. NOAA weather (in the US regions at least) is more important than FM.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

You're trolling me right? You think because a device that Apple doesn't manufacture has support for an old tech Apple hasn't spec'ed but happens to run Apple software on top of the software native to that device, that Apple then has to support that system everywhere else in their ecosystem??? Just wow.

So by your "logic" Apple should also support Android on the iPhone because many of those same third party manufacturers also support Android Auto on the same devices. Or since Safari used to run on Windows, then Apple must support write operations to NTFS from MacOS. At this point you've gone so far into the ludicrous I can't even continue with you. It's a pointless endeavor.

Oh poor little you, you come across an opinion that doesn't jive with yours and you come to the conclusion you're being "trolled".

 

[ErikGrim]

Much simpler with ~ 5 million people and the size of New Mexico.

That might be true, but it’s also showing where the world is going. FM is a dying tech.

 

[cube]

Many millennials in the US don't even know you can just connect a cheap antenna to your digital TV to get major broadcasts for free (and in Full HD).

More generally, many people don't know that some tube TVs have non-curved screens, Full HD, HDMI, or a digital tuner (availability of each of these features varies by country).

 

[BiggAW]

Have you used a portable radio? I don't know where you live, but the wire in a headset is plenty to pick up radio effectively. Works fine on my Note 8.

Yeah, I have a Sangean radio that actually has a metal antenna and can pick up radio stations that are ~40 miles away just fine. My SGS 7 is pathetic, it barely gets anything. Radio makes sense in emergencies, it just doesn't work well on mobile phones or iPods or whatnot.

This just isn't going to work on iPhones or iPads.

It actually wouldn't be that hard. The Lightning Dongle has a DAC and an ADC on it (I though it was just an adapter, but Lightning is all digital). They could make new Lightning headphones or a new Lightning Dongle with an FM chip in the dongle, and sell it for $9 for any Lightning equipped iPhone, and use the headphones as an antenna.

You should look at how small a fm radio can be. One is a few atoms. Power draw is very very low. And on any phone the power cable could be used easily for a antenna not just headphones. It would literally cost pennies to add fm radio to a phone. People didn't ask for a fm radio on the many Android phones but it is there.

The thing is, probably no one uses it. I'd be shocked if more than 5% of SGS 7 users have ever tried it, and those that have find out it works very poorly.

It absolutely is outdated and poised to be disrupted out of existence.

Radio reaches more people than TV or streaming, it's over 90% of the US population that listen weekly. I don't think anything else reaches 90% of the US population. Lots of people listen in their car daily, including myself (along with entertainment on my phone for longer trips).

The carriers have a lot to be accountable for because they ask that the functionality be turned off. Here again, they don't get money from you listening to FM, but they do earn money directly from TuneIn Radio and iHeart Radio because it uses data.

On Android phones. You do realize that Apple tells the carriers how their hardware and software will work, not the other way around, right?

 

[bobob]

If it is so unconscionable to not have FM functionality, how come nobody noticed and made a fuss for a full ten years?

The only ones who noticed were the National Association of Broadcasters who are witnessing plummetting ad sales and an even more grim future. It is purely financial self-interest that is driving this misguided campaign against Apple.

 

[citysnaps]

Really? Tell me why Apple discontinued the still popular ipods?
Stop drinking the Cook Koolaid

Low demand due to phones. And, there's also the far more capable iPod Touch. Simple as that.

Koolaid? No, just business sense. Try some...

 

[webbuzz]

That might be true, but it’s also showing where the world is going. FM is a dying tech.

That might be. It will be a decade or two before it is gone.

 

[KPandian1]

Many millennials in the US don't even know you can just connect a cheap antenna to your digital TV to get major broadcasts for free (and in Full HD).

... people don't know that some tube TVs have non-curved screens, Full HD, HDMI, or a digital tuner (availability of each of these features varies by country).

Most old adults familiar with OTA TV, moved on to cable TV, and currently have no clue that OTA HD reception is the same as their former free TV; with a newer receiver in most TVs bought in the last decade. Or a set top box that actually time-shifts via a DVR, for free after the equipment purchase!

Beating up on the millennial is stupid, as most of them did not know anything about the rabbit ear antenna times, their parents controlled the media channels. The X and Y generations (and older) who used them are the clueless ones, about the free broadcast TV norms today.

Most of the latest generation (millennials!) use their 21st century screens for every thing - be it a 4 inch cellphone or a 13+ inch laptop.

Real big screen TVs are still in the homes of the older generation (like me), and they are the ones ignorant about the OTA free TV.

I am all for discussing current events, without meaninglessly putting down entire generations, current or old, to TRY and make a point.

 

[cube]

Many millennials in the US don't even know you can just connect a cheap antenna to your digital TV to get major stations for free.

Most old adults familiar with OTA TV, moved on to cable TV, and currently have no clue that OTA HD reception is the same as their former free TV; with a newer receiver in most TVs bought in the last decade. Or a set top box that actually time-shifts via a DVR, for free after the equipment purchase!

Beating up on the millennial is stupid, as most of them did not know anything about the rabbit ear antenna times, their parents controlled the media channels. The X and Y generations (and older) who used them are the clueless ones, about the free broadcast TV norms today.

Most of the latest generation (millennials!) use their 21st century screens for every thing - be it a 4 inch cellphone or a 13+ inch laptop.

Real big screen TVs are still in the homes of the older generation (like me), and they are the ones ignorant about the OTA free TV.

I am all for discussing current events, without meaninglessly putting down entire generations, current or old, to TRY and make a point.

I am not beating up millennials, I am repeating something I read. That same article mentioned it happening too with some old people, but it was not very clear about it.

 

[steve333]

Low demand due to phones. And, there's also the far more capable iPod Touch. Simple as that.

Koolaid? No, just business sense. Try some...

Still selling millions of them, Apple wants people to buy the HIGHER MARGIN iPod Touch
Like I said, only interested in margins not their customers. Is pissing off millions of people good business sense? I call it arrogance that will eventually bite them in the ass