Navy Seal's Team Six, 9 - Somalia Pirates, 0

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Original poster
Mar 22, 2008
16,532
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On tenterhooks
I can't believe this story only rated mention in two posts in the PRSI thread about the State of the Union speech.

You flag-wavers are slacking-off. :rolleyes:

God/Allah bless those unnamed "elders". :cool:

MOGADISHU—U.S. special operations forces swooped into Somalia on Wednesday and rescued two hostage aid workers after killing their nine kidnappers, a rare and daring raid in the Horn of Africa nation to free foreign captives.

Continued.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
May 7, 2004
13,790
2,873
Sod off
Now, if only Seal Team Six could develop an equitable, bitpartisan deficit reduction plan for us...then again, no amount of military hardening can prepare one for such horrors as that.
 

James L

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
850
1
I'm all for more military action like this when called for, but I'd hardly call the US Navy Seals going up against a bunch of common kidnappers a "daring" raid. It's like Michael Jordan going up against the 8 year playing ball at the school.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
May 7, 2004
13,790
2,873
Sod off
I wouldn't call it pedestrian. And, to be fair, the whole point of using special forces is to make it an unfair fight, if fighting is necessary. Why would we want it to be otherwise?
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Original poster
Mar 22, 2008
16,532
18
On tenterhooks
I wouldn't call it pedestrian. And, to be fair, the whole point of using special forces is to make it an unfair fight, if fighting is necessary. Why would we want it to be otherwise?
Exactly.

This isn't some playground game, this involves people lives, and the American woman was going down-hill, fast.

Deep inside a lawless country is hardly safe, by any stretch of the imagination.

So, instead of paying $1.5M ransom, we pay for this raid.

There can be little doubt which will have the more long-lasting effect. ;)
 

sk1wbw

Suspended
May 28, 2011
3,483
1,006
Williamsburg, Virginia
I'm all for more military action like this when called for, but I'd hardly call the US Navy Seals going up against a bunch of common kidnappers a "daring" raid. It's like Michael Jordan going up against the 8 year playing ball at the school.
Spoken like someone with zero military experience.
 

firestarter

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2002
5,498
116
Green and pleasant land
I'm all for more military action like this when called for, but I'd hardly call the US Navy Seals going up against a bunch of common kidnappers a "daring" raid. It's like Michael Jordan going up against the 8 year playing ball at the school.
Yeah, these Somalis don't know what they're doing.

Seals will always kick their ass.

----------

I wouldn't call it pedestrian. And, to be fair, the whole point of using special forces is to make it an unfair fight, if fighting is necessary. Why would we want it to be otherwise?
James needs to read his Sun Tzu.
 

James L

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
850
1
Yeah, these Somalis don't know what they're doing.

Seals will always kick their ass.
Wow. You are comparing a small group of kidnappers (the article says nine), the same ones that:

"the Pentagon said there were no known links between the kidnappers and Islamic militant groups in the region. Kirby said the U.S. military had no evidence to connect them to piracy."

... to a battle that had the US soldiers (less than 200 of them) fighting an enemy force that was estimated to be upwards of 4,000 strong ( a 1:20 ratio)?

An enemy force that was not only 20 times larger, but had a defined plan on how they wanted to attack the American soldiers.... a very different scenario than a group of nine people getting raided with the element of surprise, 3 months after they kidnapped somebody.

Seriously? That is your comparison?

Or, are you merely suggesting that every native citizen of Somalia is exactly the same... therefore if the ones who were involved in the Battle of Mogadishu were badass and dangerous that they all are?

I'm trying to follow your logic, but there is so little of it that it is difficult.


James needs to read his Sun Tzu.
Right back at ya apparently. ;)


......


I really don't know why people are getting uptight about my original post. The SEALS conducted a well planned and executed raid. That's their job, and they did it well. Let's be realistic about it though.
 
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firestarter

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2002
5,498
116
Green and pleasant land
... to a battle that had the US soldiers (less than 200 of them) fighting an enemy force that was estimated to be upwards of 4,000 strong ( a 1:20 ratio)?
I don't believe the US mission was to take on 4000 people. Their plan was to sit safely in a couple of helicopters and let off some rockets. That all went kind of wrong.

Or are you merely suggestion that every native citizen of Somalia is exactly the same... therefore if the ones who were involved in the Battle of Mogadishu were badass and dangerous that they all are?

I'm trying to follow your logic, but there is so little of it that it is difficult.
The message is - don't underestimate unconventional forces.

Right back at ya apparently. ;)
Really, ignorance is nothing to be proud of - and you can't hide that with a couple of childish comebacks.

You should try reading The Art of War. It sets out fundamental military theories. As Lord Blackadder pointed out to you - the purpose of using special forces is to make a fight unfair and use decisive force... strategies set out by Sun Tzu.
 

James L

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
850
1
The message is - don't underestimate unconventional forces.
These were 9 kidnappers according to the original article, who had been under surveillance for a significant period of time prior to this raid.

Again, night and day different to the battle of Mogadishu.

...ignorance is nothing to be proud of...
Devil's advocate, but could it not be considered ignorant to compare a raid on 9 kidnappers to the battle of Mogadishu?

You should try reading The Art of War.
How do you know I haven't read it, you know nothing about me at all. Aren't you just make assumptions?

It sets out fundamental military theories. As Lord Blackadder pointed out to you - the purpose of using special forces is to make a fight unfair and use decisive force... strategies set out by Sun Tzu.
Your comment only serves to highlight my point. Once you have made the fight unfair and have used decisive force (including using some of the world's best soldiers, supported by the world's most modern military technology, against 9 kidnappers three months after they did the kidnapping) is it really appropriate to use the word "daring" to describe the raid?

Well executed yes... but daring?


..............


On a different note: You and I have been on here longer than probably 90% of the members on this site. Surely we both must know by now that arguing on the internet is stupid? :D
 
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kapolani

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2011
264
557
USA
Easy to sit behind a keyboard and belittle going into battle.

I'm sure I know some of these people.

Going out and doing bad things to people while they try to do bad things to you is never pedestrian.

BUD's class 195.

Hooyah 195!

James L - why don't you up into the service so you can see how tame battle can be?
 

steve2112

macrumors 68040
Feb 20, 2009
3,023
6
East of Lyra, Northwest of Pegasus
These were 9 kidnappers according to the original article, who had been under surveillance for a significant period of time prior to this raid.

Again, night and day different to the battle of Mogadishu.



Devil's advocate, but could it not be considered ignorant to compare a raid on 9 kidnappers to the battle of Mogadishu?



Your comment only serves to highlight my point. Once you have made the fight unfair and have used decisive force (including using some of the world's best soldiers, supported by the world's most modern military technology, against 9 kidnappers three months after they did the kidnapping) is it really appropriate to use the word "daring" to describe the raid?

Well executed yes... but daring?
Yes, I would call it daring. Going across borders into a hostile country, with a small team, to rescue two people? Yes. Any number of things could go very wrong, and turn that scenario into a repeat of Mogadishu. Angry, armed locals could get alerted to your presence and attack. A helicopter goes down and you have serious injuries. It's probably not as dangerous as flying into an active combat zone, but it is still very dangerous.
 

BanjoBanker

macrumors 6502
Aug 10, 2006
354
0
Mt Brook, AL
ALL combat is dangerous. I don't care what the mission is, if it involves hostiles, it is dangerous. 9, 10, 100, 200: the number of hostiles merely changes the amount of ammo needed.
Kapolani, good on you for making it through BUDS. A SEAL buddy told me it was almost as hard as the Special Forces selection course! Just kidding, congrats on a job well done. All of the SOCOM community knows that their jobs are very dangerous by their nature and we signed on with full knowledge of the risks. Personally, give me a jungle op any day. I have not done time in-country in the desert, I just have heard what a b**** it is on the equipment.
"Quiet Professionals" De oppresso liber!
 

aarond12

macrumors 65816
May 20, 2002
1,100
49
Dallas, TX USA
Well executed yes... but daring?
Not to jump into the flame war, but these were far from 8-year-olds on the basketball court vs. Michael Jordan. The pirates have machine guns and RPGs. This wasn't a pop-in-unannounced, scream "GIVE MY BACK MY DAUGHTER HOSTAGES", and rescue them. I would say it's fair to call it a daring rescue. Any instance where you're taking fire could be called "daring".

"The Art of War" by Sun Tzu is a great read if you haven't already read it. It's a great strategy book that even works in the business world.
 
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