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So you're saying that the league needs more revenue sharing? Because that isn't the same thing as saying that players need to be paid less.

I'm not saying either. Not sure why you think I am.

And what makes you think the players' salaries are "out of hand"?

I never said they were. I said the league has a salary cap to prevent it, because they're too small for market conditions to prevail.
 
I'm not saying either. Not sure why you think I am.

I see. Then what measures do you think the league should take "to ensure some level of parity"? And what type of parity do you mean? Parity in the quality of the team they can put on the court? Or parity in how much money each team makes? A lower salary cap means more teams can afford players, but creates far bigger profits for the teams in larger markets.

There are quite a few large-market teams (Knicks, 76ers, Rockets, Suns) that don't field contenders as often as one would guess. And there are small-market teams (Spurs, Trailblazers, Thunder) that "over-achieve" too. That would seem to indicate that parity isn't as much of a problem as the owners claim it is.
 
I see. Then what measures do you think the league should take "to ensure some level of parity"? And what type of parity do you mean?

They're already doing it with the salary cap, luxury tax, and the draft. And I'm talking about competitive parity on the court - you know this, because you addressed it yourself. This isn't hard, I'm not sure why you're having such a complex. :confused:
 
They're already doing it with the salary cap, luxury tax, and the draft. And I'm talking about competitive parity on the court - you know this, because you addressed it yourself. This isn't hard, I'm not sure why you're having such a complex. :confused:

If they're already doing it, then why lock out the players? All three of those things are already in place to try to improve parity. And if parity were the actual issue, then the players would be playing right now. The league wants to cut the amount of revenue that the players receive. The other things are window dressing.

You're right. It isn't hard. If you want to buy into the line that the owners peddle, then you're welcome to. I guess I should have just assumed that you were venting instead of analyzing.
 
The current contract has the players getting what 57% of revenue, the owners want to cut that to 50%. The star players will still get the mega millions but why should a rookie make so much right out of the gate.
 
The owners are trying to force the players to agree in advance to not get as much money as the owners are actually willing to pay them. The owners want to be saved from themselves. Not a single one of them has ever been forced to give a huge contract to a player. There is no minimum payroll requirement, so a team can trot out a dozen rookies making the minimum salary if they want to. But no team does this. They can afford to pay the contracts they agree to, but they want a guarantee that they won't have to pay market value. How would you like it if engineers had a maximum salary that was less than some engineers were worth? And your skills will probably decline so fast that you won't be able to do the work ten years from now and you'll need to find a new career?


The claim that most of the teams lose money is a lie. It's an accounting trick. Teams claim depreciation from the cost of purchasing a team, even though most of the franchises' values go up over time. So on paper they can claim to lose money, but most teams do not have an operating loss. Even the ones that do are usually playing a shell game by using separate companies that own the arenas, TV rights, etc. The team loses money but the owners' other subsidiaries make big profits. Every corporation does these things and professional sports teams are no different.

There may be a few teams that really are losing money. But if that's the case then why not pay off those owners and eliminate those teams completely? Then the remaining teams would be splitting the pie fewer ways. The answer is that they don't feel they have to. Better to claim you're losing money and it's the players' fault. It's just a money grab.

I would rather athletes not be paid like superstar entertainers, but since that's the world we live in, I would rather the players get paid their market value instead of owners being able to buy a few extra private jets.

Honestly, I don't fault the players for making that kind of money. If someone wanted to pay me that much for doing a job, I would take it. The average career of most professional athletes is very short, so I don't hold that against them. As you said, the owners are the ones dishing out the money and the ones with no self-control. This is especially true in MLB, since it doesn't have all the controls that the NBA and NFL have. I read an article a while back talking about some of the crazy contracts in MLB. The Mets, for example, were still paying a player (I forget who it was) who hadn't been with the team for 5 years or so. Gotta love guaranteed money if you're the player.

As far as teams losing money, I can see it. By the time a team pays travel costs, facility costs, etc, in addition to salaries, I can see teams in smaller markets with lower attendance losing money. Yeah, a lot of the talk is just an accounting tap-dance, but I can see how they lose money. Last season, my alma mater played in a college football bowl game with a $1 mil+ payout and lost money overall. One of the beat writers did a breakdown of costs, and the travel costs were insane. Yeah, an NBA team isn't going to be flying 100+ people around, but they do travel 40 or so times during a regular season.



The current contract has the players getting what 57% of revenue, the owners want to cut that to 50%. The star players will still get the mega millions but why should a rookie make so much right out of the gate.

This is one of the things that led to the NFL lockout. Rookies were getting insane contracts and signing bonuses without ever having played a minute. Then you wind up with someone like Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell. I can't say I blame the veterans for getting so ticked off.
 
The current contract has the players getting what 57% of revenue, the owners want to cut that to 50%. The star players will still get the mega millions but why should a rookie make so much right out of the gate.

In the NBA, there are not only maximum contract limitations, there are even stricter rookie contract limitations. Generally, rookies can only sign three-year contracts and although they make a lot compared to when they were in college, many of the young stars are very underpaid because of the limit. And by limiting the contract to three years, the top young players go into free agency early in their careers.

The NBA's biggest issue actually isn't the maximum contracts because only a small percentage of players get those. It's the "middle-class" players who get grossly overpaid. That's where the really ridiculous contracts get paid out.
 
Here we go:

NBA Commissioner David Stern said early Saturday morning that, if the tentative agreement reached between the owners and players is completed and ratified, he is hopeful of having a 66-game season, beginning on Christmas Day. Below is a general breakdown of how the 2011-12 NBA Season schedule will be structured. The five-game Christmas Day slate is also listed below.

Full details of the schedule will be released on NBA.com upon its completion.

2011-12 NBA Schedule Breakdown

Regular Season Start Date: December 25, 2011
Regular Season End Date: April 26, 2012
Playoffs Start Date: April 28, 2012
Last Possible Finals Date: June 26, 2012

2011 Christmas Day Games

Boston Celtics at New York Knicks, 12 p.m. ET | TNT

Miami Heat at Dallas Mavericks, 2:30 p.m. ET | ABC

Chicago Bulls at Los Angeles Lakers, 5 p.m. ET | ABC

Orlando Magic at Oklahoma City Thunder, 8 p.m. ET | ESPN

Los Angeles Clippers at Golden State Warriors, 10:30 p.m. ET | ESPN

Individual Team Schedule Breakdown

Conference Games: 48
• Play 6 teams 4 times (2 home, 2 away)
• Play 4 teams 3 times (2 home, 1 away)
• Play 4 teams 3 times (1 home, 2 away)

Non-Conference Games: 18
• Play 3 teams 2 times (1 home, 1 away)
• Play 6 teams 1 time at home
• Play 6 teams 1 time away

Back to Back to Backs: All teams with at least 1; no more than 3
Playoff Back to Backs: Possible in second round
NBA.com
 
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