Need Help! MP 2013 no normal shut down

[Riwam]

I cannot imagine that this problem affects all MacPros end 2013, but it certainly affects my one.
Upgraded several weeks ago to 10.11 and had the same day to downgrade back to Yosemite.
The Mac could only be shut down by the power button (or by pulling the power supply cable).
Clicking in the apple menu to shut down (or to restart) made only disappear the menu bar.
The El Capitan background image and the dock remained.
Waiting brought nothing. Only the On/Off power button allowed to close the operation of the MP.

Now I have just tried the 10.11.1 version (but this time to avoid the past problems I did it not in the inner drive but in an external USB 3 HD).
Besides that everything took of course much, much longer (!) than when using the inner drive, I found no change to the lack of possibility of a normal "booting down" of the OS.
Still the only way is by cutting the power supply.

On this occasion I received from Apple a software update.
However to install it required that the computer restarts, as often is the case.
Since restarting requires finishing first the computer's operation, and, as already explained this is not possible in my case, this update could not be installed.

Under Yosemite I never experienced anything of this kind and the same applies to Mavericks and previous OSX I had.
It ONLY happens now under El Capitan, so there must be something in this OSX which causes at least in my specific MP 6.1 (since I don't know how other MPs 6.1 manage with 10.11) this very serious problem...
I must confess I lack the knowledge to develop a strategy to deal with this.

Any help how to find out the reason (or reasons) behind this strange situation, the necessary first step to find the solution to it, will be very warmly welcome.
Thank you very much in advance!
Ed

 

[pat500000]

I cannot imagine that this problem affects all MacPros end 2013, but it certainly affects my one.
Upgraded several weeks ago to 10.11 and had the same day to downgrade back to Yosemite.
The Mac could only be shut down by the power button (or by pulling the power supply cable).
Clicking in the apple menu to shut down (or to restart) made only disappear the menu bar.
The El Capitan background image and the dock remained.
Waiting brought nothing. Only the On/Off power button allowed to close the operation of the MP.

Now I have just tried the 10.11.1 version (but this time to avoid the past problems I did it not in the inner drive but in an external USB 3 HD).
Besides that everything took of course much, much longer (!) than when using the inner drive, I found no change to the lack of possibility of a normal "booting down" of the OS.
Still the only way is by cutting the power supply.

On this occasion I received from Apple a software update.
However to install it required that the computer restarts, as often is the case.
Since restarting requires finishing first the computer's operation, and, as already explained this is not possible in my case, this update could not be installed.

Under Yosemite I never experienced anything of this kind and the same applies to Mavericks and previous OSX I had.
It ONLY happens now under El Capitan, so there must be something in this OSX which causes at least in my specific MP 6.1 (since I don't know how other MPs 6.1 manage with 10.11) this very serious problem...
I must confess I lack the knowledge to develop a strategy to deal with this.

Any help how to find out the reason (or reasons) behind this strange situation, the necessary first step to find the solution to it, will be very warmly welcome.
Thank you very much in advance!
Ed

I would try to go to recovery mode and reinstall OS X el capitan without formatting the drive...it worked for me when i had a similar problem.

 

[Riwam]

I would try to go to recovery mode and reinstall OS X el capitan without formatting the drive...it worked for me when i had a similar problem.

*********
Thank you very much for your suggestion.
However it does not seem to work in my case and reinstalling the OSX10.11 takes also too much time.
I cannot imagine that it might be suffered by many users of the MP End 2013 since in such a case Apple would have known about it.
Thank you again
Ed

 

[Riwam]

I would try to go to recovery mode and reinstall OS X el capitan without formatting the drive...it worked for me when i had a similar problem.

*******

Hello pat500000

I noticed strange things!
First of all I tried again your suggestion of reinstalling 10.11.1 over an existing one and it worked... I could normally shut down the system...
but only once, directly after reinstalling!
Any following new attent to shut down or restart, failed as in the past.

Strange also is the high activity inside the El Capitan drive (a spinning magnetic hard disk I used since I do not risk again the inner drive of the MP) activity which continued and continued after the unsuccessfull command of shut down.
I have no idea what was going on, but according to the noise it made, a lot of continuous activity began to take place in the system...

When asking to shut down, as in the past, just the title bar disappears, but the sunny mountain image of the El Capitan desktop as well as the dock with all its icons remain, and waiting brings nothing.
However (since I had volunteered to try the public betas), when I clicked on the icon of the assistant to report results of the public beta, the title bar reappeared.
(However it changed nothing regarding lack of possibilty of shutting down or restarting).

I used the report field available for public betas to write my problem, clearly stating it has nothing to do with the public betas.

Very strange situation in my humble opinion... don't you think so?
Ed

 

[pat500000]

*******

Hello pat500000

I noticed strange things!
First of all I tried again your suggestion of reinstalling 10.11.1 over an existing one and it worked... I could normally shut down the system...
but only once, directly after reinstalling!
Any following new attent to shut down or restart, failed as in the past.

Strange also is the high activity inside the El Capitan drive (a spinning magnetic hard disk I used since I do not risk again the inner drive of the MP) activity which continued and continued after the unsuccessfull command of shut down.
I have no idea what was going on, but according to the noise it made, a lot of continuous activity began to take place in the system...

When asking to shut down, as in the past, just the title bar disappears, but the sunny mountain image of the El Capitan desktop as well as the dock with all its icons remain, and waiting brings nothing.
However (since I had volunteered to try the public betas), when I clicked on the icon of the assistant to report results of the public beta, the title bar reappeared.
(However it changed nothing regarding lack of possibilty of shutting down or restarting).

I used the report field available for public betas to write my problem, clearly stating it has nothing to do with the public betas.

Very strange situation in my humble opinion... don't you think so?
Ed

Could you post the pictures? Also have you tried pram reset?

 

[Riwam]

Could you post the pictures? Also have you tried pram reset?

******
Thank you very much for your goodwill pat500000

I will follow your advice and try PRAM/NVRAM resetting.
However this procedure (as well as repairing permissions) is, as far as I know intended just for "small repairs".
I am afraid that the lack of possibility to shut normally down a Mac involves deep sitting system operations in El Capitan, responsible for many other and different bugs reported by different users in this forum involving other hardware and other software.
Unfortunately I have no knowledge to get "inside" the system and monitor what is to be found deep there.

Regarding your request of pictures, unfortunately I would not know what to post. It is just the known mountain photography of the desktop and below it the dock and its icons, the whole remaining forever whenever I try to shut the system down.

I am presently trying a different approach (just to try something ) and will report in case it succeeds:

First I did a "clean install" of 10.11.1 in an external USB-3 HD.
Just the OS and the apps coming with it.

Presently I am trying to "migrate" (with the "migrating assistant") my whole data, apps and user accounts from the inner drive of the MP (which is still under Yosemite) to that clean installed external El Capitan.
(By using an external drive I leave untouched my running system).

When finished I should (hopefully) have:
a) a "clean" installed 10.11.1
b) on top of it all my previous applications and data, but now in 10.11.1 instead of in Yosemite.

Maybe it brings a solution to my non-shutdown-bug (although not knowing why...)
In any case it eliminates the usual accusation that "I should have installed the new OSX in a clean way"... once I get in touch with the tech people of Apple Care. I have heared that often in the past as supposedly the cure for every problem of an user they don't know how to solve.

Thanks again for caring
Ed

 

[Riwam]

Could you post the pictures? Also have you tried pram reset?

*************
Hello pat500000,

PRAM reset, as you kindly suggested, brought no result.
The migration of apps and data to a clean installed El Capitan I tried, did not work either.
Still no normal system shut down possible.

I finally contacted Apple.
A tech, after having me do the SMC (taking away the power supply cable for 15 secons before pluging it again) and the PRAM resets, both with no success, asked me to install just the OS in a 32 GB USB pen drive.
According to him I could migrate all apps and data to another (larger) partition drive.
I do not understand how this dual procedure might work but he said that that was what he himself had done when installing El Capitan.
Presently the 32 GB size USB stick is installing the naked OS 10.11.1.
Let's wait and see...
Thank you again for your suggestions.
Ed

 

[Deeznuts.]

I have this bug in El Capitan, when I shut down, the dock disappears half way & freeze then the computer shuts down. Is it suppose to do that? I'm running the latest version of El Capitan.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP & Deeznuts:
I, too, have shutdown problems with El Capitan.

I've come onto a workaround which I'd suggest you try (please report here if anything changes for you).

Do this:
1. When it's time to shut down, choose "Log out" instead.
2. Do you successfully get to the logged-out screen?
3. If you do, there should be "restart" and "shut down" buttons at the bottom of the screen.
4. NOW try the shut down button.

What happens next?

 

[Deeznuts.]

When I try to log out too, the dock disappears half way then freezes.

 

[pat500000]

*************
Hello pat500000,

PRAM reset, as you kindly suggested, brought no result.
The migration of apps and data to a clean installed El Capitan I tried, did not work either.
Still no normal system shut down possible.

I finally contacted Apple.
A tech, after having me do the SMC (taking away the power supply cable for 15 secons before pluging it again) and the PRAM resets, both with no success, asked me to install just the OS in a 32 GB USB pen drive.
According to him I could migrate all apps and data to another (larger) partition drive.
I do not understand how this dual procedure might work but he said that that was what he himself had done when installing El Capitan.
Presently the 32 GB size USB stick is installing the naked OS 10.11.1.
Let's wait and see...
Thank you again for your suggestions.
Ed

If you have a time...i say try reinstalling one more time over existing data.

 

[Riwam]

OP & Deeznuts:
I, too, have shutdown problems with El Capitan.

I've come onto a workaround which I'd suggest you try (please report here if anything changes for you).

Do this:
1. When it's time to shut down, choose "Log out" instead.
2. Do you successfully get to the logged-out screen?
3. If you do, there should be "restart" and "shut down" buttons at the bottom of the screen.
4. NOW try the shut down button.

What happens next?

************
Thank you very much Fishrrman for your kind proposal.

However I cannot log out either, so no way to use your suggestion.
I can shut down in the way you suggest BEFORE I log in, but once I am inside the account (no matter which user account I log on) I cannot log out and therefore not even in this way "boot down" the MP end 2013.


In any case I appreciate very much your goodwill to help!
Thanks
Ed

 

[Riwam]

If you have a time...i say try reinstalling one more time over existing data.

*******
Believe me.
I tried it more than once with no result.
I thank you very much, pat5000000, for trying again and again to help me.
I appreciate it very much.

Ed

 

[pat500000]

*******
Believe me.
I tried it more than once with no result.
I thank you very much, pat5000000, for trying again and again to help me.
I appreciate it very much.

Ed

Yeah...the reason i was suggesting that was i had similar problem before...i didn't have problem anymore.

 

[Riwam]

When I try to log out too, the dock disappears half way then freezes.

*******

Hello Deeznuts

Did you find any solution?
If not, do you intend to get in touch with the Apple techs?

I did contacted them once but received just the usual suggestions to reset PRAM and reset SMC.
Then a true genius told me to install just the OS in an USB pen drive and I could migrate all the software and data to a larger place and still have one working system.

I was stupid enough to try it and, as I thought, the migration assistent wanted to migrate everything to the 32 GB pen drive and "informed me" there was not enough space.

As to the "resetting bla bla", since I have not the guts to reinstall El Cap in the drive inside the MP but only do "experiments" in external drives, things like resetting the PRAM and SMC have no effect on any external drive.

On the other side I prefer a Mac working OK under Yosemite than a Mac with El Capitan... unable to shut down the system.

I do not see how to find a solution to this El Capitan "adventure" of Apple taken without enough preparation to ensure that it should "somehow" work with the different models of Macs and "at least" with most of the usual software.
Ed

 

[Riwam]

Yeah...the reason i was suggesting that was i had similar problem before...i didn't have problem anymore.

*********
You are more lucky than me.
Good for your system
...and bad for mine
Ed

 

[Riwam]

When I try to log out too, the dock disappears half way then freezes.

**********
Hello Deeznuts
I still don't know if you found a solution.

I deeply regret no more reactions from owners of the black MP.
I assume that a considerable number of Mac users, use that computer.
No doubt that much more MacBooks and iMacs are in all the world in daily use.
Still I cannot imagine that at least 1000 black MP 6.1 might be sold and in tegular use since its introduction almost 2 years ago.
A certain number of those users certainly read the MacRumors Forum.
I would be very grateful if owners and users of those Macs would tell their experience, good or bad, with El Capitan.
Thank you very much in advance!
Ed

 

[MacGizmo]

Similar experience here with two different iMacs, including a brand new 5k model. Since I set these two iMacs up myself, I'm confident there is nothing wrong with configurations, etc. HOWEVER:

A) iMacs are connected to a server. A very slow server running windows. A very slow server running windows and administered by complete jack@sses in the I.T. dept.

B) There is an external 3TB USB drive connected for backups.

Removing either of these two things helps, but doesn't cure the problem. Hitting shutdown can take 15 minutes, or never happen at all. Using the "Log Out, then select Sleep or Shut Down" method actually does work, but not ideal.

 

[Riwam]

Similar experience here with two different iMacs, including a brand new 5k model. Since I set these two iMacs up myself, I'm confident there is nothing wrong with configurations, etc. HOWEVER:

A) iMacs are connected to a server. A very slow server running windows. A very slow server running windows and administered by complete jack@sses in the I.T. dept.

B) There is an external 3TB USB drive connected for backups.

Removing either of these two things helps, but doesn't cure the problem. Hitting shutdown can take 15 minutes, or never happen at all. Using the "Log Out, then select Sleep or Shut Down" method actually does work, but not ideal.

*******
Thank you very much for telling your experience MacGizmo.

I must confess I do not see either in a server or in an external USB drive an explanation why a system should not normally go down.
In my case the log out trick brought no result but my Mac is not an iMac and a different machine could react a bit differently...
However since the problem to shut it down never happened as long as I run Mavericks and later Yosemite, there must be some kind of relationship to the new OSX 10.11.

Reasoning by simple elimination (for lack of deeper system information),
1) no new hardware (none in my case) and
2) no additional software (unchanged in my case)
the only thing that actually changed when upgrading was the OS.
That leaves just that element as the cause of the problem, even if it makes little sense. since Apple should have noticed an important bug like this before releasing the OS to the public...
Very strange.

Again thank you very much for your post MacGizmo
Ed

 

[Riwam]

I am still hoping to receive some more feedback from kind forum users of the MP End 2013 regarding their experience with OSX 10.11 El Capitan.

Thank you very much in advance!
Ed

 

[AlteMac]

I have had this issue and so far have fixed it with a reinstall from the recovery partition. But here is something to try to diagnose: set up another user as an administrator and login in to that account. Then try to shut down as normal. If it works, it means something in your user files is preventing shutdown. The only solution I know would be to do a clean install on a newly formatted disk, then reinstall all apps and migrate data. I am considering doing this because I have other issues not cured by reinstall and there is a lot of old stuff on my drive, having done updates over many years. A huge PITA to say the least.

 

[Riwam]

I have had this issue and so far have fixed it with a reinstall from the recovery partition. But here is something to try to diagnose: set up another user as an administrator and login in to that account. Then try to shut down as normal. If it works, it means something in your user files is preventing shutdown. The only solution I know would be to do a clean install on a newly formatted disk, then reinstall all apps and migrate data. I am considering doing this because I have other issues not cured by reinstall and there is a lot of old stuff on my drive, having done updates over many years. A huge PITA to say the least.

********
Thank you very much weinschela for your feed back.

I had another account for my wife and login through it did not solve it.
I have also tried a clean install and migrate everything (not just the data) to it. Still no normal shut down possible.
I did the migration also for the software because I have not the patience to install again all my applications. If they worked under Mavericks and still work presently until Yosemite, it is ridiculous to have to install all of them again just because they will be running in a new OS version.
That would take me many, many days and I have not enough patience for it although I agree with you that it would be a cleaner situation.
I entirely agree with you that successive upgrades increase the presence of old and unnecessary remnants of applications (and even entire unnecessary old applications or versions of applications) but I cannot believe that that should not let a normal shut down.
If it would be so harmful, the problem should appear in any OSX. For instance right now under Yosemite.

However in order not to risk a second time my system in the only HD that a MP end 2013 has, I try everything in an external USB HD.
This is of course not the ideal way to test it but I assume that since an external drive has no processor, no RAM. no graphic cards and so on (all that coming from the computer) it should be "almost" like doing the installation entirely inside the computer, e.g. in the inner drive.
It simply works much, much slower. I can live with that.

I am expecting the next update of El Capitan to try it again but I must do my "trial and errors" in an external drive.
I was once lucky to recover my whole system thanks to a Yosemite booting external clone drive and cloning back from it to the inner drive and have not the guts to risk again any experiment in the only inner drive.
A second time I might not be so lucky again.

I hope that one day there will be an update of El Capitan which will finally allow me to shut normally down the system from the external drive. Then I will do the upgrade to 10.11 in the inner drive as well.

Again thank you very much weinschela for your help!
Ed