Need help with iMac G3s, mac os 9 and mac os X tiger

[MacHamster68]

you can put them into the same partition


and panther doesnt need to be installed in a small partition , only os 9 needs to be in a less then 7gb partition

 

[lyam]

Thanks, i'm all set to go now

One question though which i off topic, is there a way of getting garage band for free on panther, as in later operatinfg systems its included in for free? There probably isnt a legal way, but i was just finding out before concluding.

 

[Cox Orange]

Hello,

can someone make this VERY clear, again. The answers seem contradicting each other. Does MacHamster say PurrBall is wrong?

Which of the following examples would work for which iMac?

example 1:
First 8GB Partition: OS 9 + OS x
Second 110GB Partition: something else

example 2:
First 8GB: OS 9
Second 110GB: OS X and other stuff, like media

example 3:
First 8GB: OS X
Second: OS 9 and other things

example 4:
First 2GB: OS 9 (because system plus Apps is 400MB large)
Second 5GB: OS X (about 1,5-3GB large dependign on what X-Version)
Third 110GB: other Stuff



MacHamster says:
Slot-Loader:
6,5GB first for OS 9
Second Partition: OS X and other things
but you can put OS 9 + OS X in the first 6,5GB as well (see last post)
(did this apply to the trays as well?)

PurrBall says:
Tray-Loader:
first 7GB for OS X
Second for OS 9 and other things


I read from lowendmac.com that the slot-loaders don't have an issue with 8GB, but the tray ones have to be aware of the 8GB.


On another page regarding the tray-loader I read, that you have to choose the 8GB as last partition, when sizing in the diskutilities window. (another page didn't say anything about it, whether the 8GB have to be at the beginning of the partitition scheme or at the end.

Your help would be very welcome!

PS: excuse my grammar, I'm german...

 

[Cox Orange]

here are the source for my above mentioned things.

Her one explains the hole process for tray loaders. See step 2 "formatting & partitionioning" he mentions the 8GB, and forwards (I think one of the links in his text) he tells about structuring the partitions.
http://www.djonmac.com/drive/upgradedrive.html

Here is one who maxed out the iMac tray loader (in fact he forgot to upgrade the VRAM ;-) and said the 8GB partition must be the last created. (note djon doesn't!)
http://www.katorlegaz.com/tutorials/new_life_bondi.php

Finally a text about upgrading possibilities, where one mentions the 8GB restriction. See "Tray Loading G3 iMacs" and scroll down to "cons" and thenn scroll to the next time, where you can read the word Pros: ... Cons
http://lowendmac.com/musings/08mm/used-imac-g3-value.html

So, what is the must-do on both models, when thinking about partitioning and choosing which partition gets which OS?

 

[MacHamster68]

i installed os9.2.2 on a 6.5 gb partition and osx 10.3.9 on a 121.5gb partition

you need to installe os9 frist to see if you have the right firmware installed otherwise you wil get problems installing osx panther or tiger

the amount vary from website to website and user to user some say it works with up to 8 gb some with lower then 7 gb

 

[lyam]

yeah on that low end mac website, they said originally that under 8gb would be fine, but after more research, problems had occured with 8gb and even 7.X (cant remember exactly), so they recommended 7gb or lower instead.

 

[95527]

One question though which i off topic, is there a way of getting garage band for free on panther, as in later operatinfg systems its included in for free? There probably isnt a legal way, but i was just finding out before concluding.

i still operate an older mac and i have garageband installed on it, but it did not come as part of the original operating software package - i had to buy an older copy of iLife on ebay.

(it's been a long time since i installed it, but i think you might also need a DVD drive to install it.)

 

[Cox Orange]

ok, thanks for the answers!

Did anyone so far read any place else, that the small Partition has to be put in the end of the partition-sceme? (as I mentioned before the one under the second link given above says he found out he had to put the small one at the end of the sceme to have it work).

 

[lyam]

ok, ran into a few problems, but all i have sorted except this.

*install new hard drive, everything fine
*partitioned, first 6500mb, second around 30000mb (changed setting to partition with zeros or something and partitioned using os 8 (couldnt find borrowed os 9 disc)
*upgraded to mac os 9 when disc was found
*THEN went to install panther on the large partition (which i named Mac OS X) but it said: "You cannot install Mac OS X on this volume. This destination is not within the first 8gb of the hard disk".



So what do i do???

If that involves repartitioning the hard drive, do i have to partition using zeros (i think that was what it was called) because that is what that dj website said to do, but it take up so much time?

It would be great if i get a reply before torrow morning as i will probably set up the partitioning tomorrow

Lyam


EDIT: i can put a picture up on request, but that would mean putting it on photobucket, although i wouldnt mind if it helps people

 

[lyam]

and

EDIT: sorry for the image size

 

[lyam]

Still need help, I would be grateful for any suggestions or advice that could help me.

Please help

 

[Cox Orange]

Hi lyam,

I did the first step of my project, too.

This is what I did:

1. Put new HDD in an external enclosure
2. bootet my ibook G4, then plugged in the firewire cable of the external HD.
3. opened "Festplattendienstprogramm" (Harddrive Service Application???, you know that thing with the HDD and the doctors-stetoscope on it) under OS X 10.4 on my ibook.
4. partitioned the HDD with "Festplattendienstprogramm": choosing "Apple partition" from the "Options" Button (enabling it to be used with HFS+ (journaled) and as boot for PowerPC Macs). Doing this I had to face, that the numbers are not direcrly automaticly calculated right. When I put 6,5GB in the first, the second showed something higher then 140GB (being a drive with just 120GB). I typed it several times and jumped from on to the othe rpartitition, till suddently it showed the correct ratio.
5. started my iMac G3. pluged in the external HD. Drag and droped the system Folder, Library, Applications, Documents on the first partition. (while being in OS 9.1 on my iMac G3
6. while still being on OS 9.1 on my iMac G3 I clicked on the apple in the menue, then on "Kontrollfelder", then on "Startvolume". Waited a bit and then it showed: Macintosh HD (which is the OS on my iMac G3) and OS 9 and OS X 10.4, which are the partititions on my external HDD. Choosed OS 9. from the external. Clicked on "Neustart" (Reboot). And it the iMac started from this partition on the external HDD.

The next step (for me) will be, opening my friends second iMac G3, putting in the new HD (with two Partitions). powering on, and waiting what happens. If the Folder with the "?" comes, I will start it up again holding dowwn "alt". If this works. I will install the latest firmware (I can drop this, because the owner of the iMac had allreday installed 10.3, so the firmware should be the right one). At least I will put in the Tiger CD and install on the secons partition and, will see, if I get the same problem like lyam.

But I unfortunatly can only do this on the next weekend...

 

[lyam]

Ok, the only problem i have is that i do not have an external hard drive enclosure, but surely it should work without having to have one as i dont need to back anything up. What i will try is partitioning in panther rather than classic. I might make a new thread, as this is off topic to the original post and also there must be a solution. Do you know a way to do it without using an external hard drive enclosure? I'm now making a new thread.

EDIT: I hope it works i'll be waiting to hear the results

 

[Cox Orange]

Still need help, I would be grateful for any suggestions or advice that could help me.

Please help

someone here http://www.katorlegaz.com/tutorials/new_life_bondi.php said, you have to choose the big first, then the small, and install OS 9 in the small (last) partitition. I don't know, if this is the reason. But have a look at the link how he explains it.

The partitioning with Zeros is the savest way to erase data completely, because normally, the computer just "forgets" where he had put the data, when you delete something, allowing to overwrite it the next time you save something. But the old data can still be there in parts. The computer fills in the "holes" piece by piece. With Zeros, the computer writes constantly the same trash data. So that it gets a big consistent deleted block. If you do it without Zeros the Computer will put something there and something there just where he finds a place ("hole") to fit it in. (putting these pieces spread all over the HDD in the right order is called Defragmentation, and takes up time again).
I would do Zeros, just to be sure (but I am no Pro, so better wait for the others to answer).

Well, see it as a sport ;-) put on the formatting and go drink a coffee

 

[lyam]

someone here http://www.katorlegaz.com/tutorials/new_life_bondi.php said, you have to choose the big first, then the small, and install OS 9 in the small (last) partitition. I don't know, if this is the reason. But have a look at the link how he explains it.

The partitioning with Zeros is the savest way to erase data completely, because normally, the computer just "forgets" where he had put the data, when you delete something, allowing to overwrite it the next time you save something. But the old data can still be there in parts. The computer fills in the "holes" piece by piece. With Zeros, the computer writes constantly the same trash data. So that it gets a big consistent deleted block. If you do it without Zeros the Computer will put something there and something there just where he finds a place ("hole") to fit it in. (putting these pieces spread all over the HDD in the right order is called Defragmentation, and takes up time again).
I would do Zeros, just to be sure (but I am no Pro, so better wait for the others to answer).

Well, see it as a sport ;-) put on the formatting and go drink a coffee

yeah, i'll have to try that then.

 

[Cox Orange]

Can you put the link here to your new thread (allthough I don't think this is off topic, since it all has to do with installing the OS...)

I will put the following with some explanations you might allready know, but I think, if there is someone else who joins latwer, he can benefit from it.


Other ways:

1. scenario (you have 1 iMac G3 and a OS 9 CD and Panther CD):
put the OS 9 CD in and install, then connect to the internet and check for the latest firmwareupdate (needed to install OS 10.2, 10.3 or 10.4, not needed for 10-10.1), it is a newer one then that linked to on djonmac.com For safety reasons first install the one linked to at djonmac.com, then after that download this one http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75130
Easiest way to connect to the internet would be plugging in the LAN-cable (ethernet). (If you have another Mac at hand it maybe possible to download the firmware-installer on this and then transfer it to the other mac (viaburned CD or target mode, for explanation of target mode see scenario 2).
If you have then updated the fimrware, you can just put in the CD of Panther and partitition the HDD. Then install Panther in one of the partitions (because OS 9 doesn't need to be on it).
Reboot. then insert OS 9 CD and install on the other partitition.

Scenario 2 (you have two Macs).
Plug firewire cable into both. Start one. Start the second while holding down "T" on the keyboard of Mac No 2.
A purple screen appears (this is target mode).
On Mac 1, you will see an external harddrive. now you can partition the "external" Mac and after partitioning drag and drop the systemfolder on your Mac 1 on the partition of Mac2.
This will only work on firewire equipped Macs.

Here is something really helpful:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1335173

PS: !!! I forgot something important, you will have to start from the panther CD, when one wants to use the Partititioning Application.

Note: Apple says, updating the firmware can cause some RAM to not work anymore http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26424 (so maybe, if you mac won't start up after updating, you should change the RAM) (?)


IMPORTANT !! Read this first, to get the right firmware http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1395?viewlocale=en_US

 

[lyam]

I've decided to post the new thread after i've tried the other possible solution as i dont want to post a pointless thread, this should be done by the end of the week at the latest so i'll inform you. Thanks for the information.

 

[Cox Orange]

added a link at least, which lists available firmware updates, and what Model they are for. (Slot Loading iMacs need firmware 4.1.9, and tray-loaders need 1.2)

 

[Cox Orange]

Today I had the chance to go farward with my friends iMac.

Installation of the HDD into the iMac G3 housing worked fine and the iMac started directly from the new hardrive showing OS 9.1, which I had installed on the HDD, before I had put it into it.
Then I did target mode and move the firmwareupdater from the ibook G4 (which I just used to download it) to the iMac G3. I opened the firmwareinstaller and followed the instructions.
Now, having done this. The iMac shows the following behavior everytime I start it up. It first shows an empty folder, which changes to a folder with a question mark, the two show up ones. Then the iMac starts into OS 9.1. When the desktop can be seen everytime again, it shows the message "firmware successfully updated". There is nothing like "don't show this message again" or so. So everytime there is a "beep" and this message. Also, since I have changed the HD the clock nags that it is not synchronous. Which is normally because of an empty Puffer-Battery. Which I will replace. But I am wondering, that it didn't appear before changeing the HDD.

Anyways, I tried to install Tiger. But I only had an Image. Which I opened and I could go to the Install screen, which said I should "restart". I did, but the iMac did start into OS 9 all the time never giving the possibility to do something with the DVD. I also tried holding dowwn "alt" or "c", but had no success. I will now try it with the original Tiger DVD.

There is another thing. I don't know wether I just didn't notice it, the first time I started up in OS 9.1 with the new HDD, but today, when I started it to do the firmwareinstall and Tiger, it seemed to me, that after the firmwareupdate it is constantly going very hot. I'm wondering if this could be because of the HDD, a WD with 120GB, 7200rpm, 8MB Buffer, from 2004. I heard from other people using 7200rpm HDDs that they had no Problems and less people who reported the heat issue. I will now have to test, wether the heat doesn't slow the iMac down. (I had my own iMac G3 stoping from doing anything in the hot summer of 2003, where there was 40C all over europe, when I used it during daytime, at nights it was cold enough, that it worked fine. By the way the iMac had the original HDD with 4200rpm).

 

[lyam]

hmmm, well that seems weird, now formatting new hard drive again which the large partition first. my iMac gets quite hot and i decided to clean the fan out when i purchase and install the ram. i will let you know how i get on

 

[lyam]

i had to make three partitions

mac os x 1 (7gb)
mac os x 2 (20-30gb)
mac os 9 (6.5gb)

i could find a way round that problem, i tried putting the bigger os x partition first, but it said it has to be within 8gb

 

[MacHamster68]

my osx panther partition is 121.5 gb big and my os9 covers the rest of 6.5
and i did install os9 first to see if the firmware is uptodate
and after i installed panther in the first 121.5 gb and the os9 at the rest
ok now as i have two iMac g3's i installed tiger on the fast 700mhz imac using the whole 120gb harddrive

 

[lyam]

my osx panther partition is 121.5 gb big and my os9 covers the rest of 6.5
and i did install os9 first to see if the firmware is uptodate
and after i installed panther in the first 121.5 gb and the os9 at the rest
ok now as i have two iMac g3's i installed tiger on the fast 700mhz imac using the whole 120gb harddrive

how did you do it? seriously, you must have done something different? now making a new thread


NEW THREAD ===== https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=9097039&posted=1#post9097039

 

[Cox Orange]

Hello guys,

I am in a hurry and will report how my project worked out soon. But I just wanted to tell you, that I have found the reason, for the flashing question mark (which appears just one time).

Apple Support reports, that this can be the case sometimes, if the PRAM Battery is empty for a long time and you have installed a new OS after that. Note it is not the Computer searching a long time, just shortly flashing once from an empty folder to a question mark and then to the Systemfolder-Symbol.

They recommend to reset the PRAM. I couldn't do this for now, cause I haven't come arround to my friend this week.

I hooked up an external drive to my ibook via firewire. Put in the ibook Tiger CD and installed a new Tiger from the optical drive in my ibook onto the external drive. After that I did a restart and the ibook started from the external HDD. I then connected the external drive to my own iMAc G3 just to test, if it would start from this external OS, holding down "alt" during startup. And it did. So I guess I can put Tiger on my friend's iMac this way, too. (I did this job, because my attempt to install Tiger from a retail DVD to my friend's iMac failed after half of the installation done.)

!!! But since then my ibook kept looking for the external drive first (until it seemed to some kind of "remember that it had its own HDD in it with an OS ;-), showing the same flashing question mark as my friend's iMac after installing OS 9.1.

So I did a PRAM reset on my ibook. It seems faster now (it had problems the last time, before the whole installation action) and after setting personal settings everything is fine and it keeps starting from the installed OS rigth away without first searching.

!!! Now, since I have done the PRAM reset my ibook doesn't find all documents via spotlight and I have not menaged to find a solution to this problem. Any guesses?

@lyam: did you check the HDD for failing sectors? Maybe the HDD is defective and the missing of some sectors is the reason it can't find a section bigger than 8GB? (just guessing, I am not profound on this things).

PS: found a work arround for the forgetting files Problem after resetting PRAM. It seems that only Apple Work files and Folders are affected and can't be found in Spotlight. I now found out, if you open the work files and save them again (it is enough just typing a spacebar or so and then clicking on save), they can be found in spotlight again. Folders have to be created newly and old ones deleted. Unfortunately.

 

[Cox Orange]

another important info iMac g3 can only see up to 128gb harddrives internal , but
external no limit

if you use a 160GB HDD it will use the drive (but still not recognizing everything over 128GB), but somewhen it will write out of the 128GB space and the drive will get problems. (I got an answer from hitachi, they confirmed that the computer will somewhen start writing in places over the 128GB and will get problems including not booting, corrupted data). You will not notice that in the beginning of use.

PS: edited my last post because of false information.