Netbook Market Leader Acer Not Planning to Compete With iPad

[carmenodie]

Somebody know they about to get fuuuuuuuuuuuuu************ uuuuuup!
Acer? Child Please! They suckle off of MS windows for life. They crank out netbooks like roaches crawling out of a New York sewage drain. Acer will eventually screw itself because they are going to be competing with their own netbooks. The after market ones. They will be cheaper and readily available. That's what you get, relative to this argument, when you flood the market with BS.And to add insult to injury, it is cheap BS. And of course there will be the after market rival's netbooks.
If the average, plain jane netbook is around $300.00 how much you think a used one cost? A lot less. What, like $150.00. Then how do you compete with a glut of used, cheap a** netbooks? You'd have to cannibalize the used stuff and the old stock by undercutting the new s***. But how low can you go?
This happened to the button industry. Glut of buttons in the hundreds of billions. who were their competitors? their inventory past and present. Years and years of it. They had to undercut what was already in inventory to make a profit.
This is just my 2 cents. Please criticize this scenario.
Love yall.
I can't wait for the ipad. YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Robbadore64]

File size limit downloading with iPad over 3G?

Off topic (but most of us are) but does anyone know or have a speculation regarding the ability to download LARGE files via the $30/mo 3G service? For instance on the iPhone we can't download an app over 10megs via 3G, we have to use wifi for that. Does anyone think such a restriction would be imposed on the iPad? If so, what is the point in the unlimited data plan?

If I were to buy a 3G enabled iPad it damn sure better be able to download anything I want via 3G - such as an iTunes movie.

Thoughts? Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, I haven't seen anything...

 

[JAT]

Am I the only one who thinks Acer is right and they are not worried nor expect the iPad to do little to no damage to their netbook market.

The iPad is basicly nothing more then a iPod touch with a bigger screen. Yes the bigger screen offers some extras stuff but still you suffer the same limitition of the iPhone/iPod Touch OS and are trapped in apple's sand box.

The iPad is not going to replace a traveling computer because it is just way to limited. It has piss poor way of connecting to USB/SD card. You are still required to carry a dedicated keyboard if you want to get much work done that way and so on.

The Netbook on the other had is a great for business travelers. It is a full flege computer. Yeah it has a small screen but it is the same size a the iPad and a full size keyboard and more powerful OS.

iPad is a consumer level devices. Netbook is a bussiness/Enterprise level device. That is 2 very different markets. The Netbook is not designed to replace a deticated desktop/Main laptop neither is the iPad. Netbooks are designed to make traveling with a computer a hell of a lot nicer.

Lets compare the 2.

Checking Email-- I give that to the iPad.
Responding to Email - Netbook due to keyboard.
Over all email - Netbook

Surfing the internet - Netbook due to flash support

Reading the news - iPad.
Reading books - iPad.

Getting real work done (word documents excel sheets ect.) -- Netbook.

iPad - Consumer device something apple has proven it is damn good at.

Netbook --Enterprise/ Bussiness device -- Something apple has shown time and time again it has craptactor support and does not really even bother making stuff to into that market.

Seriously? Your proof is that netbooks have good keyboards? Do you actually own one?

 

[SockRolid]

Lin noted that while an iPad-like product would be relatively simple technologically for Acer, such a device does not fit into the company's business strategy.

Like I keep saying, developing the hardware is the easy part. Developing great software is harder, creating a great user experience is extremely hard, and building an integrated software + commercial infrastructure and product suite is the hardest thing (and takes the longest).

Oh, and Acer's "company's business strategy"? I think there are just two parts to Acer's business strategy. And they're both closely related:

1. Keep cutting corners to make everything cheaper and cheaper.
2. No new ideas.

 

[Goona]

Am I the only one who thinks Acer is right and they are not worried nor expect the iPad to do little to no damage to their netbook market.

The iPad is basicly nothing more then a iPod touch with a bigger screen. Yes the bigger screen offers some extras stuff but still you suffer the same limitition of the iPhone/iPod Touch OS and are trapped in apple's sand box.

The iPad is not going to replace a traveling computer because it is just way to limited. It has piss poor way of connecting to USB/SD card. You are still required to carry a dedicated keyboard if you want to get much work done that way and so on.

The Netbook on the other had is a great for business travelers. It is a full flege computer. Yeah it has a small screen but it is the same size a the iPad and a full size keyboard and more powerful OS.

iPad is a consumer level devices. Netbook is a bussiness/Enterprise level device. That is 2 very different markets. The Netbook is not designed to replace a deticated desktop/Main laptop neither is the iPad. Netbooks are designed to make traveling with a computer a hell of a lot nicer.

Lets compare the 2.

Checking Email-- I give that to the iPad.
Responding to Email - Netbook due to keyboard.
Over all email - Netbook

Surfing the internet - Netbook due to flash support

Reading the news - iPad.
Reading books - iPad.

Getting real work done (word documents excel sheets ect.) -- Netbook.

iPad - Consumer device something apple has proven it is damn good at.

Netbook --Enterprise/ Bussiness device -- Something apple has shown time and time again it has craptactor support and does not really even bother making stuff to into that market.

Netbooks business class. Don`t make me laugh. Netbooks are garbage, what business user is going to be using a netbook to do real work squinting their eyes and using the crap keyboards. I`m sure you haven`t used a netbook for. The only thing netbooks are good for is their cheap price.

 

[ChazUK]

I have the nexus - flash doesn't work on it. There is a flash lite plug in, but most of the time the browser hangs/crashes and most flash content doesn't display or function properly. (I can't run farmville for instance)

Very odd, especially as flash 10.1 isn't even out for the Nexus One. you sure about this?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Off topic (but most of us are) but does anyone know or have a speculation regarding the ability to download LARGE files via the $30/mo 3G service? For instance on the iPhone we can't download an app over 10megs via 3G, we have to use wifi for that. Does anyone think such a restriction would be imposed on the iPad? If so, what is the point in the unlimited data plan?

If I were to buy a 3G enabled iPad it damn sure better be able to download anything I want via 3G - such as an iTunes movie.

Thoughts? Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, I haven't seen anything...

I don't think this has been conclusively determined, but based on how things are, I think you'll be disappointed. If part of the rationale for no isight camera is that AT&T wouldn't want highly compressed, small video chats running through the 3G network, a TV show, movie file, and maybe even a bigger song file is probably not going to be permitted either.

I speculate that bigger file limitations will still apply, and that THAT kind of content will be wifi only (preload it before you leave home).

But, I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case, as truly open, unlimited 3G is a winner... as long as it doesn't kill the network use for everyone (which is probably the main driver of why we won't get it).

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Netbooks business class. Don`t make me laugh. Netbooks are garbage, what business user is going to be using a netbook to do real work squinting their eyes and using the crap keyboards. I`m sure you haven`t used a netbook for. The only thing netbooks are good for is their cheap price.

and you missed the other thing about them from people I have talk with who travel a lot.
They love them for traveling. They are small and light. Laptops are good but still they are larger and heavier. Even the macbook air which is ultra light is still bigger than a net book.

They are good for getting real work done at lets say an airport or on the train, in a plane ect and plus if you loss one or get it damage it is not the end of the world. It is fairly cheap to replace.

To many people try to argument that net books are design to replace a computer. It is not.

 

[cmaier]

Off topic (but most of us are) but does anyone know or have a speculation regarding the ability to download LARGE files via the $30/mo 3G service? For instance on the iPhone we can't download an app over 10megs via 3G, we have to use wifi for that. Does anyone think such a restriction would be imposed on the iPad? If so, what is the point in the unlimited data plan?

Simply browsing the web, reading RSS feeds, reading email with attachments, streaming some music and videos, it would be easy to go over the $15 plan. That's the point in the unlimited data plan.

 

[Goona]

But virtually all video is flash. And any netbook can play flash content. And even a Mini 5 with OSx86 can play flash content, if you want the "whole experience".

Do ho ho ho.

The switch to HTML5 won't happen overnight either.

Netbooks struggle to play flash though.

 

[Eidorian]

Netbooks business class. Don`t make me laugh. Netbooks are garbage, what business user is going to be using a netbook to do real work squinting their eyes and using the crap keyboards. I`m sure you haven`t used a netbook for. The only thing netbooks are good for is their cheap price.

HP mini 5101 and 5102 or a Dell Vostro V13.

 

[Kar98]

Dude I swear that is a keyboad that I see on the ipad video on Apple`s site that they are typing on.

That's about as much of a keyboard as the DVD burner for a netbook is a "built-on optical drive." An expensive add-on.
Or are you talking about the on-screen keyboard? Right. I do not want to type as much as "kthxbai" using an on-screen keyboard.

 

[Arnia]

I completely appreciate the concept. But if we're going to rationalize it down to just e-books, then we're not comparing apples-to-apples. For example, one could say that e-books are selling at an extreme minimum compared to- say- e-music. But wouldn't that have a LOT more to do with the availability of music in iTunes for years and years now, compared to the general lack of availability of e-books?

One person countering my argument pitched a $400 book. Is that no an outlier too?

But e-media to e-media. Apparently, e-media TV shows are not selling very well within iTunes. Apple is apparently trying to pitch the industry on LOWER prices to amp up sales of that form of e-media. So, if the answer to low sales volume is lower prices, wouldn't lower prices be better for e-book media too? Or should we apply "economics of TV show production & distribution" to the discussion in support of charging 50% MORE for iTunes TV show media?

I'm actually IN the publishing industry. I work with publishers all of the time. But, while getting to price such stuff as the industry like it can be rationalized to even make perfect sense, why is it just THIS industry where this should apply?

The other e-media industries makes very passionate cases about how they (too) should be able to sell their content at the prices they want to charge. When Apple says no, they are couched as greedy, crooked fat cats. When Apple perhaps support higher prices for the e-book industry though, apparently even a consumer- like me- is wrong to want for established prices.

Do you not see the problem with that?

I have never criticised the music industry for wanting variable pricing. I have never lauded Apple for having fixed prices for so long. I generally believe fixed prices are bad.

I simply do not like the black-and-white populist way this is being presented. Yes, we'd all love to pay less for things we buy but that isn't always the best thing long-term; it can reduce choice. Personally, I'd like a world where I can continue to buy books from low- to mid-listers. If publishers cannot cover their large upfront costs in publishing of these authors (and they can't at current volumes from what I can see) then they won't try and publish them. I think that would be bad.

Yes, the example someone else gave of a $400 book was an outlier but I do not see how that materially effects the argument. Each book publishing decision is an individual act, and the publisher will look for a good ROI on that decision. If the book costs a lot to produce, and is expected to sell less, then the price must be higher to justify all that effort in the first place.

The second article I linked has a good discussion on why lowering prices probably won't significantly increase revenue at this time.

 

[Goona]

but that requires your carrier around a full size keyboard in a separate device plus having to buy the attachments for it.

The touch screen keyboard is just not going to cut it to replace a dedicated keyboard. Plus it eats up a ton of screen space.

The touchscreen keyboard on an ipad is a full size laptop keyboard which cannot be said of netbooks. They are about the same in terms of usability. You won`t want to be doing long typing on the ipad anyways. If you need longer typing you can get the dock.

 

[Disc Golfer]

I have a $300 acer and a $1500 macbook pro; the acer has better internet functionality, the mbp is made of aluminum.

 

[.Andy]

^^^Haha ^^^

It's refreshing to hear a president tell it like it is. Kudos to Scott Lin. I think it is a pretty accurate summary of the position apple is in with the ipad - both the closed nature of the ecosystem and the boon it has with iTunes, app store etc on it's side. Time will tell if he's right about the netbook comment. I'm inclined to agree though - for me I am doubtful a multitouch keyboard will ever come close to competing with a physical one. Including a 92% sized netbook keyboard. I think there will be a place in my life for both .

 

[Robbadore64]

Simply browsing the web, reading RSS feeds, reading email with attachments, streaming some music and videos, it would be easy to go over the $15 plan. That's the point in the unlimited data plan.

Thanks, and to HobeSoundDarryl thanks.

Guess the good news is I can buy the cheapest model. Hard to justify the extra $ for 3G when my iPhone can handle the internet needs when away from wifi. Happy and sad...

 

[Goona]

and you missed the other thing about them from people I have talk with who travel a lot.
They love them for traveling. They are small and light. Laptops are good but still they are larger and heavier. Even the macbook air which is ultra light is still bigger than a net book.

They are good for getting real work done at lets say an airport or on the train, in a plane ect and plus if you loss one or get it damage it is not the end of the world. It is fairly cheap to replace.

To many people try to argument that net books are design to replace a computer. It is not.

Dude what real work is being done on those tiny netbook screens. If netbooks are being used for real work, then the iPad can. Apple even built iwork for the ipad which was entirely desiged for the ipad. Netbooks aren`t being used for real work. They are mostly being used for watching youtube, facebook which the ipad can sufficiently do. If you need real work you get a proper laptop and not a netbook or ipad which is why and ipad isn`t meant to replace your Mac or PC.

 

[Goona]

That's about as much of a keyboard as the DVD burner for a netbook is a "built-on optical drive." An expensive add-on.
Or are you talking about the on-screen keyboard? Right. I do not want to type as much as "kthxbai" using an on-screen keyboard.

The on screen keyboard on the ipad is like a keyboard on a netbook. Not something you want to type your thesis on but for quick browsing on the net, some quick notes its sufficient. If you want to do some serious work get the dock keyboard.

 

[cmaier]

Thanks, and to HobeSoundDarryl thanks.

Guess the good news is I can buy the cheapest model. Hard to justify the extra $ for 3G when my iPhone can handle the internet needs when away from wifi. Happy and sad...

I paid $200 for a verizon air card with no contract. I connect only when travelling on business (a few days every couple months), and pre-pay $30 for capped access (the same cap that AT&T charges $15 for). So from my perspective, the iPad data plan is an awesome deal.

 

[Eidorian]

Dude what real work is being done on those tiny netbook screens. If netbooks are being used for real work, then the iPad can. Apple even built iwork for the ipad which was entirely desiged for the ipad. Netbooks aren`t being used for real work. They are mostly being used for watching youtube, facebook which the ipad can sufficiently do. If you need real work you get a proper laptop and not a netbook or ipad which is why and ipad isn`t meant to replace your Mac or PC.

You can almost make the argument on what kind of real work is being done on a dual core.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Thanks, and to HobeSoundDarryl thanks.

Guess the good news is I can buy the cheapest model. Hard to justify the extra $ for 3G when my iPhone can handle the internet needs when away from wifi. Happy and sad...

I'd say be sure about the memory in the cheapest model. I think this thing BEGS for even more memory than the highest-price model. If you think about it in very simple terms, one of the primary reasons to upgrade the size of iPods over the years was the seemingly consistent need for more storage.

This thing is going to hold music, movies, TV shows, books, apps, documents, etc. I look at it and wonder how quickly even the largest one will be "full" too often. Sure, we can use playlists, and carefully select what we want to take with us, etc, but I still look at storage as an issue (and one that will probably be strong rationale for version 2+).

So even if I dismissed the need for 3G (and I'd really give that thought as wifi does not tend to be as everywhere as we like to imagine it before we buy something like this), I'd probably give even more thought to just how much media I might want to take on a trip. I still lug along a 60 Gb iPod almost entirely for just music, yet often feel that is a bit too small.

 

[SockRolid]

But how low can you go?
This happened to the button industry. Glut of buttons in the hundreds of billions. who were their competitors? their inventory past and present. Years and years of it.

Well said! Acer and all the other netbook makers are basically building a commoditized, generic product. Apple is not. Each of their products is instantly recognizable and superior in nearly every way to their so-called competitors.

Acer and all the other netbook e-waste makers are all racing to push each other off the "low-price cliff." They are already operating in the netbook market at very low profit margins. All they can do to compete is to offer lower prices. There is zero brand loyalty and zero innovation.

So let's thank Acer and HP and Dell and the other clueless, brain-dead netbook makers. Their generic crap is no easier to use than any desktop PC, thanks to Windows. Their generic crap creates a sea of undifferentiated commodity products that can only compete on cost-cutting. And therefore, their generic crap just makes Apple look even better.

I am not sure of the exact figures, but netbooks are putting the hurt on the overall PC industry in hardware and software margins. Something like 20%+ of all PC sales were low-margin netbooks. But, due to their low margins, only about 10% of the PC makers' profits came from netbooks. Do the math.

And, because of the low selling price, companies that make money from software sales (looking at you Microsoft) are forced to lower their licensing fee on each copy of, say, Windows XP pre-installed on each netbook. Because Microsoft is competing against Linux, which is more or less free, in the netbook space.

All of this adds up to lower profits, increased pressure to lower costs, and therefore more urgency to make up for low margins with increased sales volumes. And pretty soon the low-end market will be saturated. Just like the "too many buttons" scenario carmenodie mentions.

Soon, all people who are technical enough to use Windows on a netbook will already have one. When that happens, companies will die off. Good riddance Acer. They won't be able to crack the far larger market of people who don't want to deal with the ancient 1980's office-productivity metaphor of desktop + file folders + files just to surf the web and check their email. Apple has aimed the iPad directly at that market (and at the rather large market of people who have netbooks, hate them, and are looking to get rid of them.)

Oh, and one more thing. I would expect Apple to wait, say, 6 months after the initial iPads go on sale. Then they could easily drop the price of just the low end model from $499 to $399. Right before the winter holidays. This would put even more pressure on the hopeless netbook makers, just after they've gotten used to competing against the $499 iPad.

BOOM!

 

[cmaier]

I'd say be sure about the memory in the cheapest model. I think this thing BEGS for even more memory than the highest-price model. If you think about it in very simple terms, one of the primary reasons to upgrade the size of iPods over the years was the seemingly consistent need for more storage.

This thing is going to hold music, movies, TV shows, books, apps, documents, etc. I look at it and wonder how quickly even the largest one will be "full" too often. Sure, we can use playlists, and carefully select what we want to take with us, etc, but I still look at storage as an issue (and one that will probably be strong rationale for version 2+).

So even if I dismissed the need for 3G (and I'd really give that thought as wifi does not tend to be as everywhere as we like to imagine it before we buy something like this), I'd probably give even more thought to just how much media I might want to take on a trip. I still lug along a 60 Gb iPod almost entirely for just music, yet often feel that is a bit too small.

Indeed. If you are going to be away from your "host" computer for long, these things will fill up fast. At about 1GB/hour of video, 10-20GB of music, a couple gigs of apps, another couple gigs for documents, etc. it will be easy to fill the thing up. In my case the thing wouldn't even hold my music library. It's bad enough having to juggle what songs I may want on a trip on my iPhone - now I have to do that on another device. (Though it raises the question - will I keep less stuff on my iPhone because the iPad will be around?) I really think 128MB is the sweet spot.

 

[Lara F]

Hulu has no relevance whatsoever to web users outside of the US. Silverlight even less.

According to Apple last financial call, 60% of Apple's revenue came from international sales.

Figure it out.

You're right, international users won't care about Hulu. But try watching CBC videos in Canada, or Channel 4 On Demand in the UK without flash.

Lots of countries upload videos or even have live streams. I watched a European skating championship live on Estonian and Turkish feeds just this month (at surprisingly decent quality) so it's definitely not only Americans impacted.