Netflix at it again

[zimv20]

And yes, i have time to easily watch 15+ movies a month.

which shouldn't be surprising, considering that the typical american home has the TV on for 7 hours a day (link).

at 2 hours/movie, the average american could theoretically watch 105 movies/month.

 

[FoxyKaye]

*shrugging* Our household (my parner and I) will use anything between 3-15 movies a month through NetFlix, so we're below the throttling limit, I suppose. My only complaint with NetFlix is shipping times, which is probably the fault of the Post Office more than anyone.

I suppose the guy has a point - he's paying for a service that advertises itself as having movies available "all the time," so theoretically everyone should have an equal shot at getting the movies they want. Whatever...

Aren't there so many more important and urgent issues in the world about which to get all worked up about?

 

[Thanatoast]

Here's my legal grey area scenario:

I'm paying x dollars a month to see any movie in Netflix's library. Netflix will send me my choices as soon as I request them. I can keep the movie as long as I want or I can return it and queue it again the very next day.

Here's where the grey comes in. What if I copied said movie to my hard drive, bypassing the need to re-queue it and have it re-sent? I would still be a subscriber to Netflix, paying my monthly fee. I could still request the movie I copied on DVD at any time.

It seems to me that as long as I pay the monthly fee, copying a DVD sent to me by Netflix shouldn't be any more illegal than copying a DVD I already own.

This would obviously not fly in court, but it's a fun exercise nonetheless.

 

[krimson]

Actually, their Terms of Use is pretty clear:

...

So, I'm not sure what you're complaining about. Netflix states that it's unlimited, with provisions for those who rent higher-than-normal volume.

As stated already, that wasn't in the TOU when i originally signed up years ago. While you have towed the Netflix PR line, you didn't address how it is abuse. 😕

 

[Abulia]

As stated already, that wasn't in the TOU when i originally signed up years ago.

Doesn't matter. They can change the TOU at their will. Your continued use of the service denotes acceptance of the TOU. Don't accept? Don't use Netflix!

While you have towed the Netflix PR line, you didn't address how it is abuse. 😕

I referred to a group that use Netflix solely to recieve and copy DVDs, then returning for their next movie. You don't consider that abuse? Considering Netflix pays the postage both ways -- plus the overhead of just running the business and buying the movies -- their model is build around the presumption of "normal" viewing habits, meaning renting 12 or fewer movies a month. I left an allowance for those, like yourself, who just watch a lot of movies.

Or is Netflix supposed to subsidize the pirating of DVDs in perpetuity out of the kindness of their hearts and hemorrhage money?

Bottom line is if you don't agree to the terms then you can vote with your wallet and leave the service and go to a competitor. But complaining that they changed the terms when they a) stated they can and will and b) state why they throttle and that you'll still recieve unlimited movies -- just not as fast as you'd like -- seems akin to making much ado about nothing.

 

[krimson]

Doesn't matter. They can change the TOU at their will. Your continued use of the service denotes acceptance of the TOU. Don't accept? Don't use Netflix!I referred to a group that use Netflix solely to recieve and copy DVDs, then returning for their next movie. You don't consider that abuse? Considering Netflix pays the postage both ways -- plus the overhead of just running the business and buying the movies -- their model is build around the presumption of "normal" viewing habits, meaning renting 12 or fewer movies a month. I left an allowance for those, like yourself, who just watch a lot of movies.

Or is Netflix supposed to subsidize the pirating of DVDs in perpetuity out of the kindness of their hearts and hemorrhage money?

Bottom line is if you don't agree to the terms then you can vote with your wallet and leave the service and go to a competitor. But complaining that they changed the terms when they a) stated they can and will and b) state why they throttle and that you'll still recieve unlimited movies -- just not as fast as you'd like -- seems akin to making much ado about nothing.

Right, as you said, what am I complaining about?
I'll put it into simpler terms, Im complaining because im being penalized for what others may or may not be doing. (I dont know since i dont have a magical mirror that shows how everyone uses the service. 😀 )

I can complain all I want, will i switch to Blockbuster, probably not. Akin to your ending statement, if you dont like my complaining dont read them, Im not holding a gun to you head and forcing you to read my posts ya know. 😛

 

[cycocelica]

In the beginning my roommate and I were watching over 15+ a month from netflix. Granted he would burn them but we watched the actual real disc copied it and sent it back the next day. Now that we are i guess what they would call a solid customer, they dont have to worry about us leaving there service. Last month is when they really started to go down hill. I just dont think it is fair to screw long time customers. Hell I have told at least 20+ people about netflix and everyone of them has tried it. So I am helping them out, granted they have no way of knowing that. But whatever, Ill still stick with them because I love movies and dont want to pay 15 bones for one when i can pay that for "unlimited" (used loosely)

 

[Abulia]

I'll put it into simpler terms, Im complaining because im being penalized for what others may or may not be doing.

No, you're being held to the same TOS as everyone else. It doesn't matter what you -- or anyone else -- is doing with their 12+ movies a month; Netflix doesn't care. They've stated the terms of their service and you agreed to them. It's not like "Bob" across the street is getting 20+ movies a month from Netflix and you're not; everyone is playing by the same rules.

Where's the grey line or the call of "foul?"

I can complain all I want, will i switch to Blockbuster, probably not. Akin to your ending statement, if you dont like my complaining dont read them, Im not holding a gun to you head and forcing you to read my posts ya know. 😛

Ditto. I have every right to participate in this thread as you do.

 

[krimson]

...

Where's the grey line or the call of "foul?"



Ditto. I have every right to participate in this thread as you do.

There is no grey line, there is only a green line, the line at which they can still make a profit, and if that's 12 movies, then make that the limit. 🙄


And you can't ditto me when I ditto'd you. 😡 😛

 

[emaja]

Netflix states that it's unlimited, with provisions for those who rent higher-than-normal volume.

Then it is not unlimited. They make a provision for high volume renters to get disks slower than other - therefore limiting the number of disks they can rent.

It is a matter of semantics, but unlimited means just that - unlimited. If they have a clause in the TOU that they can limit you if you rent too many disks, then they are advertising something that they do not deliver.

If they would drop the "unlimited" from their ads, then I would have no problem with it at all. Don't tell me that it is unlimited, but you reserve the right to limit me. I am an adult, so have the decency to tell me the truth. Say "up to twelve movies a month without limits" or something to that effect.

 

[Abulia]

Interesting to note that Blockbuster is adopting the same stance, so this will likely become an industry practice. I imagine in short time game rental companies (GameFly) will do the same.

 

[iGary]

Well I have sent and returned 6 DVD's this week (didn't watch) as an experiment to see if they throttle me.

That sounds kinda kinky.

 

[cycocelica]

wow good job iGary. Let us know how that goes.

 

[krimson]

I imagine if they are using some sort of formula, it'll take a few months of that level of activity before they'll throttle you.

 

[Jovian9]

Well I have sent and returned 6 DVD's this week (didn't watch) as an experiment to see if they throttle me.

That sounds kinda kinky.

Wow, 6 DVD's. I have returned 2 (one arrived Monday to Netflix and the other Tuesday to Netflix).....yet I haven't received one this week......at all. I'm still at a whopping 2 total DVD's that I have received in the last 2 weeks (and I get 2 at a time). Hmmmmmmm........

 

[iGary]

wow good job iGary. Let us know how that goes.

Yup, they throttled me...I sent back 3 on Monday, 3 on Thursday and got two back today. The third hasn't even shipped yet.

It's true then, but apparently Blocksuscker does this, too.

 

[hcuar]

Just a funny thing I noticed about the searching help in "My Account" on Netflix, the search "stop throttling me". The number one hit is "How do I cancel my membership".

😱

 

[theBB]

I see no problem here with Netflix. The problem is only with people who want to manipulate the system and try to get stuff for nothing, like many of the people who sue for exorbitant amounts these days. Okay, they say unlimited, but GET REAL!! You KNOW that Netflix gets screwed even by sending you 13 movies a month for that 18 bucks, and you KNOW that you are getting an extremely good deal. Stop being so selfish and trying to take advantage of others as much as you possibly can.

What is your problem? If they don't make money when people watch more than 11 movies a month, then they should advertise it as "up to 11 moves per month" not "Unlimited". If that's not false advertising, then I don't know what is. The customers have every right to feel cheated and complain. I don't care what the small print says. Small print or pages long compulsory user agreements should only make clarifications and some legalese, not changing the definition of "unlimited" to "11 movies max." What is to stop them from reducing that to 10 in the future? or 8?

I personally watch less than 10 movies a month, but there are a few movies in my queue that are on a wait list for months. Am I being semi-throttled? Longer wait lists, but quick turnaround on others? If that's the case, this is not unlimited. I may be sticking with them right now, but these tricks are not making me a loyal customer. I'd switch as soon as I hear about better service from somebody else. Great recipe for alienating your customers. I wonder if they'll still be a "successful" company three years from now. (PS: For the record, I do not copy of their movies and I am pretty sure most of their customers don't either.)

 

[e²Studios]

I will be canceling netflix this week. I have had movies that have been out for 3-4 weeks still stuck on short or long wait. I usually send back 2 movies a week so i can hardly think that is high volume. If any of you have seen my other posts around here i am avidly against the copying of any movie. I am really sick and tired of waiting and waiting for new movies. I will cancel my netflix subscription and add Starz to my channel lineup and between HBO and Starz i should be able to see what i want albeit a bit later. I am tired of waiting and never seeing new releases. Netflix used to be a great service but as of right now i am utterly disgusted with it.

Ed

 

[iBS23]

I referred to a group that use Netflix solely to recieve and copy DVDs, then returning for their next movie. You don't consider that abuse? Considering Netflix pays the postage both ways -- plus the overhead of just running the business and buying the movies -- their model is build around the presumption of "normal" viewing habits, meaning renting 12 or fewer movies a month. I left an allowance for those, like yourself, who just watch a lot of movies.

Or is Netflix supposed to subsidize the pirating of DVDs in perpetuity out of the kindness of their hearts and hemorrhage money?

It doesn't matter what you -- or anyone else -- is doing with their 12+ movies a month; Netflix doesn't care.

So how is copying the movie and returning it the next day any different than watching it and returning it the next day? How is one an abuse and the other somehow fair? The result, as you note, is the same . . . why sould netflix care?

The real problem is that despite their terms of use, their advertisements STILL say unlimited rentals. Even worse, when you are a new subscriber they have no problem shipping you all the movies you want. It is only after you've been a member for a while that their games begin.

And, if its a big enough problem that they've come up with the throttling solution, isn't the market-based response to simply adjust the business plan? If you're advertising unlimitied rentals and you're losing money on unlimited rentals, its time to change something. Maybe add a plan that says for $X you get unlimited rentals vs. the current plans which are limited to 10 rentals? Maybe ditch the unlimited rental ads?

The bottom line is that with my 1-at-a-time plan I was able to get 2 to 3 rentals a week since I watch them as soon as I get it. I don't like that I am now not getting new releases, and I don't like that my last movie came from California, and the previous handful came from Chicago even though I'm in Milwaukee (also a local processing center -- and where my first movies came from). 4-5 movies a month is much different than the 8-10 I was getting.

 

[Abulia]

You should take your ire with NetFlix, not me. Or, better yet, stop giving them your money if you're so unsatisfied.

NetFlix TOS (quoted earlier) clearly states that they reserve the right to throttle you. Any conversation beyond this point is, well, rather academic and pointless, I feel.

Note: I am not currently a NetFlix subscriber; I stopped about four years ago.

 

[aloofman]

So how is copying the movie and returning it the next day any different than watching it and returning it the next day? How is one an abuse and the other somehow fair? The result, as you note, is the same . . . why sould netflix care?

If the person copies it, watches it once, then throws away the one copy, then as practical matter there is no abuse. But copying it and keeping it for your personal movie library qualifies as piracy because you didn't legally buy the movie, you're just renting it.

Netflix probably wouldn't care, since you'd be unlikely to rent the movie again from Netflix in either case. And the result is the same as if the person watched that movie immediately and mailed it at the next pickup. It's

I still get throttled now and then, with bizarre claims that it takes four days to ship me a disc that's supposedly available now. But it happens less often if you avoid movies that have just been released. If you delay them a few weeks, most of them are available. (Although "40-year-old Virgin" has been on at least "long wait" status since it came out.) To me, using Netflix to get new releases is not really taking advantage of their huge selection. If just wanted new movies I could go to Blockbuster.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

i got 40 year old virgin the other day with no problem. is it still "long wait" for you? weird...