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I would pay a lot of money to have a streaming service based on iTunes' movie library. All this original content crap is just a content filler because no one in the industry can offer a proper streaming service.

What is "a lot of money"?

For many around here, a lot of money is maybe 2X or 3X what Netflix charges because we view the value of ALL video content through a Netflix pricing lens. Some of us will even toss around the idea of Apple buying Netflix, believing that if that happened, Apple would leave Netflix pricing where it is (the Apple target margin is not baked in already) and maybe offer more content via Netflix.:rolleyes:

From my perspective, we can look at traditional cable/satt as a guide to a definition of a "lot of money." Last I checked the national average cable/satt monthly bill was about $73/month. If that buys the much slung 200+ channels with about 18 hours of programming on them each day: 200 times 18 times 30 days = 108,000 hours of programming for that $73 or so monthly bill. Cable/Satt also generally offers some VOD as part of their subscriptions but I'm not factoring that in.

Does $73/month buy ready access to about everything in the iTunes library? No it does not. For that you would need to add on movie channels, add on new release VOD, add on regional sports, etc. That can make a cable/satt bill rise up above $120. Is $120/month a "lot of money"?

Last I checked commercials basically cover a other-peoples-money subsidy of about $54 per month PER HOUSEHOLD. This dream of an iTunes everything offering generally means commercial-free everything. Yes, I want commercial free too but do we want the starting price of a "lot of money" for zero programming to be about $54 per month to make up for all that lost revenue that doesn't even come out of our pockets?

What we tend to do is imagine that there is going to be an iTunes video version of Music at a relatively dirt cheap price. However, that would basically slash the revenue throats for pretty much everyone else in the chain. Even Apple would make much less than they would make by getting a piece of something more traditional (and traditionally priced). In short: not gonna happen.

Now, if a "lot of money" is up in that well above $100/month range, there's potential for something like that. Perhaps you personally would even equate "lot of money" to north of $100/month. But to be a worthwhile foray, lots of other people would have to do that too. Would they? Most of these threads dreaming about an Apple cut of a Netflix-like subscription service and/or an Apple cut of a PS Vue-like subscription service revolve around a delusional price point of $10, $20, $30 and maybe $40 per month. It's unusual to see anyone showing much enthusiasm for pricing of some iTunes everything offering at much above those levels.

All of the other players in this chain want changes to how they offer their products to yield MORE money, not less-to-substantially-less. The cable company (which is also typically the broadband company) doesn't want to take the hit on lost cableTV revenue, so they can just flex their broadband monopoly/duopoly to make up for any cableTV subscription losses with higher broadband rates. Apple wants it's 30% on the highest monthly rate it can sell, not the lowest possible price point that we consumers believe this kind of stuff should cost. In other words, there's no motivation anywhere else in the chain to make a "lot of money" = $10, $20, $30 or maybe $40/month.

Conceptually, if the average cableTV revenue flow is indeed about $73 and commercials running on channels "I" watch and channels "I" don't watch toss in about $54 per month per household more, $127/month is about the bottom of what makes it all run now (plus broadband fee). Any "new model" replacement is motivated to replace it if it shows all the players how more than that $127 or so is going to be realized. Else, why should they be interested? Any "new model" that has the source of the bulk of that money- us- dropping their contribution from about $73 to about $40, $30, $20 or $10/month is likely DOA (especially if we also expect to suck $54/month out of it by it being commercial free too)... which is why we've been whining for it for what seems like 7+ years and still don't have it.

Some cord cutters are indeed beating $73 or $127 right now, while sacrificing simplicity (having to hop app to app or even box to box), dolby digital surround sound on any of the cableTV-like services, real DVR functionality, etc... or just by doing without some desired programming and/or being satisfied to see some content a day or more after others have seen it. But that won't work should the masses move on it. As soon as there is enough cord-cutter profit pain, prices will rise to make up for the shortfall. Look around already. Disney is exiting the Netflix deal seeking more money. Starz already existed their Netflix deal seeking more money. There's only more of this to come as more people cut the cord.

Where does it lead? I suspect in the end the cord-cutting option will have cord cutters paying about the same or more for access to considerably less, probably not getting some of what they used to watch when they had cable or satt. Then, cue whining for more content/channels eventually giving way to talk about the "good old days" when one could get 200+ channels- most in HD with surround sound- in one package with a real DVR and unified on-screen guide for about $73 or so per month... heavily subsidized mostly by commercials running on 180 channels that "I" never watch... and not burning a byte off of ever-tightening broadband caps.
 
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I would pay a lot of money to have a streaming service based on iTunes' movie library. All this original content crap is just a content filler because no one in the industry can offer a proper streaming service.

While you make a good point, a lot of good content has come from the streaming original content war.
 
Absolutely agree. Don't WANT original content. Just take that money Netflix and Apple are wasting on original content and let me stream all of my favorite shows like "Wild, Wild West," 1960's "Batman," all of the Warners' cartoons and so on.

I'm the reverse of that I really do like Netflix's original content it's the bulk of what I watch on that site.
 
So would I!

I cancelled my Netflix subscription because I got tired of all of the original content. I had originally signed up for all of the content from different networks, but at least in Europe much of that has disappeared (or simply not been updated) in recent years while they have been pushing their own content (which I don't care about).
I am thinking of doing the same thing, unfortunately.
I am paying full 4K subscription and the content I get in comparison to USA is just to funny.
I am a huge SciFi fan and for example shows like Killjoys and Dark Matter which are already in the 3rd season, we in Europe get only season 1. Unreal crap, if you ask me :mad:
 
Absolutely agree. Don't WANT original content. Just take that money Netflix and Apple are wasting on original content and let me stream all of my favorite shows like "Wild, Wild West," 1960's "Batman," all of the Warners' cartoons and so on.

...except the owners of that content seem to have an inflated (or is it?) idea of what it is worth, and/or want to maintain artificial scarcity to keep that value high. If you could get a $20/month subscription that let you stream virtually every TV show or movie ever made, then what does that say about the value of any individual show?

Or, maybe, some of the shows are so bound up in rights issues that they're nigh on impossible to license for streaming.

Also, since the content owners are mostly huge conglomerates with massive back-catalogues they can also dream of starting their own $xx/month streaming service (See: Disney) - which is now a lot easier than starting a cable/satellite/terrestrial channel was in the past.

Then, finally, if all of old TV was available to everybody, what is that going to do to demand for new material?

So far, streaming does seem to have brought a rush of decent quality programming with solid production values: not sure that (say) American Gods or the upcoming Altered Carbon would have got made for terrestrial TV or theatrical release (remains to be seen how much it gets bowdlerised although, frankly, American Gods and Game of Thrones* seem to have been made more contentious than the books...) Possibly an over-abundance of riches, though... do we really want (e.g.) Good Omens starting while American Gods is still running? (Sorry - can't stay, need to go and binge watch Iron Fist before Defenders starts... :) )

*OK, so Game of Thrones wasn't supposed to be a streaming show, but, ahem...
 
What is "a lot of money"?

For many around here, a lot of money is maybe 2X or 3X what Netflix charges because we view the value of ALL video content through a Netflix pricing lens. Some of us will even toss around the idea of Apple buying Netflix, believing that if that happened, Apple would leave Netflix pricing where it is (the Apple target margin is not baked in already) and maybe offer more content via Netflix.:rolleyes:

From my perspective, we can look at traditional cable/satt as a guide to a definition of a "lot of money." Last I checked the national average cable/satt monthly bill was about $73/month. If that buys the much slung 200+ channels with about 18 hours of programming on them each day: 200 times 18 times 30 days = 108,000 hours of programming for that $73 or so monthly bill. Cable/Satt also generally offers some VOD as part of their subscriptions but I'm not factoring that in.

Does $73/month buy ready access to about everything in the iTunes library? No it does not. For that you would need to add on movie channels, add on new release VOD, add on regional sports, etc. That can make a cable/satt bill rise up above $120. Is $120/month a "lot of money"?

Last I checked commercials basically cover a other-peoples-money subsidy of about $54 per month PER HOUSEHOLD. This dream of an iTunes everything offering generally means commercial-free everything. Yes, I want commercial free too but do we want the starting price of a "lot of money" for zero programming to be about $54 per month to make up for all that lost revenue that doesn't even come out of our pockets?

What we tend to do is imagine that there is going to be an iTunes video version of Music at a relatively dirt cheap price. However, that would basically slash the revenue throats for pretty much everyone else in the chain. Even Apple would make much less than they would make by getting a piece of something more traditional (and traditionally priced). In short: not gonna happen.

Now, if a "lot of money" is up in that well above $100/month range, there's potential for something like that. Perhaps you personally would even equate "lot of money" to north of $100/month. But to be a worthwhile foray, lots of other people would have to do that too. Would they? Most of these threads dreaming about an Apple cut of a Netflix-like subscription service and/or an Apple cut of a PS Vue-like subscription service revolve around a delusional price point of $10, $20, $30 and maybe $40 per month. It's unusual to see anyone showing much enthusiasm for pricing of some iTunes everything offering at much above those levels.

All of the other players in this chain want changes to how they offer their products to yield MORE money, not less-to-substantially-less. The cable company (which is also typically the broadband company) doesn't want to take the hit on lost cableTV revenue, so they can just flex their broadband monopoly/duopoly to make up for any cableTV subscription losses with higher broadband rates. Apple wants it's 30% on the highest monthly rate it can sell, not the lowest possible price point that we consumers believe this kind of stuff should cost. In other words, there's no motivation anywhere else in the chain to make a "lot of money" = $10, $20, $30 or maybe $40/month.

Conceptually, if the average cableTV revenue flow is indeed about $73 and commercials running on channels "I" watch and channels "I" don't watch toss in about $54 per month per household more, $127/month is about the bottom of what makes it all run now (plus broadband fee). Any "new model" replacement is motivated to replace it if it shows all the players how more than that $127 or so is going to be realized. Else, why should they be interested? Any "new model" that has the source of the bulk of that money- us- dropping their contribution from about $73 to about $40, $30, $20 or $10/month is likely DOA (especially if we also expect to suck $54/month out of it by it being commercial free too)... which is why we've been whining for it for what seems like 7+ years and still don't have it.

Some cord cutters are indeed beating $73 or $127 right now, while sacrificing simplicity (having to hop app to app or even box to box), dolby digital surround sound on any of the cableTV-like services, real DVR functionality, etc... or just by doing without some desired programming and/or being satisfied to see some content a day or more after others have seen it. But that won't work should the masses move on it. As soon as there is enough cord-cutter profit pain, prices will rise to make up for the shortfall. Look around already. Disney is exiting the Netflix deal seeking more money. Starz already existed their Netflix deal seeking more money. There's only more of this to come as more people cut the cord.

Where does it lead? I suspect in the end the cord-cutting option will have cord cutters paying about the same or more for access to considerably less, probably not getting some of what they used to watch when they had cable or satt. Then, cue whining for more content/channels eventually giving way to talk about the "good old days" when one could get 200+ channels- most in HD with surround sound- in one package with a real DVR and unified on-screen guide for about $73 or so per month... heavily subsidized mostly by commercials running on 180 channels that "I" never watch... and not burning a byte off of ever-tightening broadband caps.

Spot on! People who claim to want this are the first to complain about spending $10 a month for such a service because it's "too much" and would still complain about "nothing being on." I mean let's face it between all the various "premium" apps "Starz," "Showtime," "HBO" and "Epics" you have a large percentage of the iTunes Catelog, you just don't get "first run" stuff at the same time as a theatrical release. Which is what most people who constantly complain about no movies on these services. They think they'll get Blockbuster movies on opening weekend. It's the "I want it now, for free and how I want it" Generation.
 
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Honestly, the Marvel shows are the only reason I 'had' Netflix. I'm debating on whether or not Defenders is worth my $10/month. Still not sure.
 
...except the owners of that content seem to have an inflated (or is it?) idea of what it is worth, and/or want to maintain artificial scarcity to keep that value high. If you could get a $20/month subscription that let you stream virtually every TV show or movie ever made, then what does that say about the value of any individual show?

Of course, counterpoint is who are we to judge that the correct value of someone else's product is $20/month instead of the approx. $127/month they get via the traditional cable/satt channel? Does that have us- the buyers- undervaluing the idea of what it is worth? For example, change the subject matter...

...except Apple seems to have an inflated (or is it?) idea of what Apple products are worth, and/or want to maintain artificial scarcity to keep that value high. If you could get the next iPhone for $150 outright and the next MacBook Pro for $375 instead of about $1000 and about $2500 respectively, then what does that say about the value of Apple products?

In other words, it's easy for us to revalue products not made by Apple. We think we should get a video everything streaming service for $20/month instead of $127/month or more. So why not think we should get iPhones and MB pro for 15% of what Apple wants for them too? That gets us the very same discount percentage for some other company's products. So why not?

Of course, as soon as we frame it like that, it becomes practically abhorrent. How dare some consumer argue that Apple should drop their prices by 85%. But video products? Oh yes, they should be 85% off. And my next car. And my next house. And food. And clothing. And everything else not made by Apple. Apple deserves every penny they ask for their products but everyone else's are over-inflated ripoffs.

Now who's the richest company in the world again?
 
Netflix knows if they want to survive, original content they control is going to be the reason, don't expect them to stop anytime soon.
 
I would pay a lot of money to have a streaming service based on iTunes' movie library. All this original content crap is just a content filler because no one in the industry can offer a proper streaming service.

if you're thinking $80/month, you may as well rent the movie? probably cheaper that way.
 
I would pay a lot of money to have a streaming service based on iTunes' movie library. All this original content crap is just a content filler because no one in the industry can offer a proper streaming service.
Cool. Would you pay $200-$500/month? Because that's likely not far off from what all the studios will collectively want, in exchange for handing over unlimited streaming rights to all of their just-out-of-the-theaters $100+-million-budget movies.
 
Then why spend any there money at all? Apple should either do it right or leave it alone. You know, like they used to do.
The first iPhone was only available on one carrier, and lacked important features like cut and paste. It took several years for them to “do it right”. So it appears that Apple’s foray into original content will be just, you know, like they used to do.
 
Of course, counterpoint is who are we to judge that the correct value of someone else's product is $20/month instead of the approx. $127/month they get via the traditional cable/satt channel? Does that have us- the buyers- undervaluing the idea of what it is worth?

If you read my post - it was talking about old, back-catalogue material. Nobody in their right mind pays $127/month for back-catalogue content unless its bundled alongside channels offering first-run shows, recent movies and/or live sport - in fact, a problem with the cable/satellite companies is that they force you to buy a $127/month bundle rather than choose the channels you want.

We know the value of back-catalog material when you can buy it from 3-for-$10 DVD bargain buckets or $20-$30 complete-series box-sets. We know that it should be cheaper on streaming with no manufacturing and physical distribution costs, no nice limited-edition packing or extras, plus a guaranteed income stream for subscriptions. We know how much we used to pay for video rentals. We know how much of that you already get from $10/month subscriptions, and how much extra we'd pay for a better range (or for things that were there not to vanish before we got round to them). It's not too hard to work out that if you watch more than $20-$30 worth of bargain-bin DVDs (not counting any more expensive recent releases you buy) each and every month then you need to get out more.

...except Apple seems to have an inflated (or is it?) idea of what Apple products are worth, and/or want to maintain artificial scarcity to keep that value high.

Yes we are paying Apple a premium for artificial scarcity. Many people here would choose to buy cheap-and-cheerful generic PC hardware - even if it wasn't like-for-like equivalent to Apple hardware - if they could legally run MacOS on it. Other manufacturers have a range extending from cheap, commodity $300 PCs to $2000 MacBook/iMac wannabees - Apple have quite deliberately stayed out of the low-end market - MacOS is the main reason that they can get away with that. If I need my employer to replace my computer I can justify a $2000 MacBook over a $1000 Lenovo if I need MacOS - good luck with justifying a $2000 surface over a $1000 Lenovo.

Apart from that, its a completely spurious counter-example. Computer makers don't have a back catalog - a >5 year-old computer (apart from the odd working Apple 1 or signed-by-Steve-Jobs Mac Plus) is landfill. If you want a $300 Mac, eBay will oblige - but there's no comparison between a 10-year-old computer and a 10-year-old movie. There's no computer hardware equivalent of never releasing a particular movie on DVD or streaming, or pulling Firefly from Netflix.
 
Pretty sure this is their total content budget for 2017 - not just original programming. The title is misleading.
 
The belief that Apple will keep paying the exorbitant contract prices to have network shows and film distributed is dubious at best. We've come full circle with almost every published and or studio releasing their own streaming network.
 
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