Networking a PowerMac G5 and Mac Pro 3,1

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Server, Xserve, and Networking' started by hartleymartin, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. hartleymartin macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    Jul 15, 2016
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #1
    Hi Everyone!

    I've got a 2008 MacPro 3,1 (OSX 10.11.6) and a PowerMac G5 (OSX 10.2.7) which I would like to network together.

    Basically, I tried putting an Ethernet cable from the second Ethernet port on the MacPro to the Ethernet port on the G5, but I cannot get it to work. Is it because the G5's OSX is too old?

    The MacPro is the everyday computer (and home media server), and the G5 is something that I am holding on to so that I can play Macintosh games which were never ported to the newer Intel Macs.

    Any help or advice would be much appreciated!
     
  2. organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

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    Aug 8, 2016
    #2
    The OS Version is not the problem! Apple switched in Mac OS X 10.9.x Mavericks from the Apple Filing Protocol (AFP) to Service Message Block (SMB) Protocol as the standard for file sharing. But even El Capitan can communicate through AFP. AFP is used to connect to older Versions like Mac OS X 10.2.7 up to Mountain Lion Mac OS X 10.8.x. Look at here and here!
    The problem in your case is probably the Ethernet cable! If you want to connect two PCs with just one cable, you'll need an Ethernet crossover cable. The other solution is to connect both Macs to an ethernet switch, hub or router and use standard ethernet cables.
    If you connect the G5 and the Mac Pro, you can reach Gigabit transfer rates (1Gbit/second), because both Macs are capable of this speed, but your switch and cables need to be compatible to Gigabit, too. That's why you should use at least Category 5 cables or better (Category 5e is standard).
    Personally I think that a 5-Port unmanaged Gigabit-Ethernet switch for around $ 30 is a good decision for your needs and will allow you to wire your printer and router with standard cables, too.
     
  3. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #3
    I'll see about getting a Cat5 cross-over cable. An ethernet hub won't help me much with regards to the printer though, as it is in another room in the house!
     
  4. chrfr macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    #4
    You don't need a crossover cable; the Mac Pro will automatically handle that for you. Edit: G5s also automatically handle crossover, so while you may be having a cable problem, it's not because you need a crossover.
     
  5. organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    #5
    That's cool! I never thought about the AUTO-MDIX feature. I've found a list of Macs which will need a crossover cable and which will work with a standard cable.

    Besides a broken cable...
    hartleymartin, sorry for the misleading info with the crossover cable. But did you set up the network manually since there is no DHCP server wired or as a software running? The network mask of ethernet should be 255.255.255.0 on both Macs and the first three of the four IP-adress numbers should be the same on both Macs (e.g. 192.168.1.10 and 192.168.1.20). If the cable is not the problem, you should then see the green light at the interface in the network settings.
    When I was running Mac OS X 10.2.x Jaguar, I also had to do some manually editing of the NetInfo database with CLI or the NetInfo Manager to get users, groups and mount points working like I wanted. I guess you could reach pretty much the same with the donationware SharePoints from HornWare.
     
  6. hartleymartin, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016

    hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    Jul 15, 2016
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    Sydney, Australia
    #6
    I'll take a look into the configurations. Still not figured it out.

    On the Mac Pro, I have a Yellow Light on the Ethernet 2, which is connected to the G5.
     
  7. organicCPU, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016

    organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    #7
    A yellow light usually means that connection is possible, but not configured (properly) or that the connection is simply inactive.
    Chances are high that the cable isn't broken.
    - Configure the G5:
    Network panel -> Show: Built-in Ethernet -> TCP/IP tab -> Configure: manual, IP Address (192.168.x1.y1 where x1 and y1 can be from 1 to 255) and Subnet Mask (255.255.255.0), leave blank everything else.
    Sharing panel -> Services tab -> Turn on Personal File Sharing; -> Firewall tab -> if firewall is on, turn firewall off to see if that's the problem
    - Configure the Mac Pro:
    Network panel -> Ethernet 2 -> configure IPv4: manual, IP Address (192.168.x1.y2 where x1 is equal to x1(G5) and y2 is from 1 to 255 and not equal to y1), Subnet Mask (255.255.255.0), leave blank everything else; Advanced -> DNS tab -> leave blank everything; Hardware tab -> Configuration: automatic
    If you want to access the Mac Pro from the G5, too: Sharing panel -> activate File Sharing ; Options: Share by AFP
    - If the light is green or yellow (inactive) you should be able to connect via afp://192.168.x.y1 and afp://192.168.x.y2
    - Jaguar sometimes had trouble in reconnecting after sleep. Is the light green, if you reboot the G5?
    - Did you you unplug Mac Pro's Ethernet 1 to see if that changes anything?
     
  8. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    Sydney, Australia
  9. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    #9
    Not managed to get file sharing happening though.
     
  10. BittenApple macrumors 6502a

    BittenApple

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    Nov 29, 2008
    #10

    is file sharing enabled in system preferences ?
     
  11. organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    #11
    Which direction are you trying to connect? From Mac Pro to G5 or other way? Did you try the other way, too?
    Can you provide more details of what happens exactly if you are going to press Command + K and enter the IP address of the Mac you want to connect to in the form of afp://192.168.x.y ? Do you get the login screen to enter username and password? Do you get the dialog to select specific Folders? What error message is thrown if you try to connect and wait?
    Do you get packet loss if you ping the other Mac from terminal?
    Code:
    ping -o 192.168.x.y
     
  12. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    #12
    I have activated file sharing on both computers, but no luck so far.

    I've got the Mac Pro connected to the home network (with internet connection) via ethernet, and I've got the G5 connected to the Mac Pro also via ethernet.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 1, 2016 ---
    For the time being, I am doing things the old fashioned way by burning stuff onto CD and then transferring it over manually. The G5 is primarily used for classic Mac Games. i've had a ball playing Age of Empires the past few days.
     
  13. LC Phil macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Location:
    Vienna
    #13
    Hi there,

    Could you plug both machines into your router via Ethernet then try? Make sure you dial back all the manual configuration and just have it set up as DHCP. It just will make troubleshooting this a LOT easier. Obviously see if you can bring up Google on the G5 so you know it's connected to the LAN correctly. Then you can get into pinging the Pro and setting up file sharing. Even if this is just a temporary relocation of the machine.

    Side note: have you thought of updating to 10.4.11 Tiger? I'm sure you can find a download somewhere (burn to DVD and install, BACKUP FIRST), and it will offer far more stable file sharing/system. 10.2.7 - blast from the past!

    Good luck,

    Phil
     
  14. organicCPU, Sep 1, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016

    organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    #14
    Upgrading to Tiger or even to Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard is probably a good idea for easier network setup. But there has to be a solution for Jaguar, too.
    Your hardware setup is quite clear. If you're talking about networking in general, you could also achieve an internet connection on the G5 by activating it on the Mac Pro -> sharing panel -> enable Internet sharing -> enable over Ethernet
    If file sharing is activated and you can successfully ping the other Mac, then my best bet is that the firewall is responsible for failure. Go to Mac Pro System preferences -> Security panel -> Firewall -> Firewall-Options -> disable block all incoming connections / Allow incoming connections for Filesharing (AFP) and AppleFileServer (in that dialog box you can also enable stealth mode, that prevents another PC to ping your Mac Pro successfully. Even though file sharing should work with stealth mode) then press OK. You should now be able to connect from G5 to Mac Pro if you enter your Mac Pro's username/password. If that works we could figure out, how to connect the other direction. If that won't work, try to be as detailed as you can to describe what steps you do, when the failure occurs and if there are any error messages.
     
  15. LC Phil macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Location:
    Vienna
    #15
    Completely agree that going to 10.5 Leopard would be a great idea, but he'll loose Classic support. So no more Age of Empires / OS 9 games :(

    Whilst there's a solution for 10.2, Apple only just introduced SMB in 10.2 and as you mentioned even AFP was still flaky. In fact it's probably the main reason behind the OP's headaches. :)

    Instead of spending hours troubleshooting it'll probably be easier to just update to 10.4.11 (I'm sure you can find a disc/download somewhere), connect directly to the switch/router, and go from there. At least then all the usual suspects are removed.

    Plan B:
    1. USB Stick?

    Best of luck, (probably will loose your Saturday, but when it works it'll all be worth it!)

    Phil
     
  16. organicCPU, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016

    organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    #16
    If support for OS 9 has relevance that's true that you can't run OS 9 from Leopard, just from Tiger. Unfortunately a G5 can't boot OS 9 (like most G4 can do) and just run Classic with OS 9.1 or higher in Tiger.
    So the G5 could have 2 or more partitions. One with 10.4/Classic, one with 10.5, one with 10.3 or the original OS. The network setup for OS 9 / El Capitan would then probably require the Apple Talk protocol to be enabled on the Mac Pro, if that's possible in El Capitan at all for filesharing. It's possible to network between OS 9 and Leopard if the password/username length is short enough. I've never tested with a newer OS.
    But I think the OP is not asking for connecting the Classic environment, but the original OS X 10.2.7 . That let's me think about, if 10.2.7 ever was the original OS for the MacPro 7,2 M9032LL/A (dual 2.0 GHz) 2003 G5 and not 10.3 Panther like for the dual 1.8 GHz G5. If that'd be the case that could also cause networking problems.
    I don't know where Apple has hidden that piece of information about the pre-intel area in the archives. Anyway, buying an original Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.x can't be wrong for a G5 with Classic for Age of Empires. I think Age of Empires II was already compatible with Mac OS X 10.5.

    Edit: Apple Talk is not needed, because Mac OS 9.1 can use AFP as well. Apple Talk support was removed in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. Up to Mac OS X 10.5 you can use Apple Talk to connect with afp://at/<AppleTalk name>:<AppleTalk zone> . That's useful to connect to Mac OS 8.6 or lower, that doesn't talk AFP.
     
  17. JamesPDX Suspended

    JamesPDX

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    Aug 26, 2014
    Location:
    USA
    #17
    Yeah, I can't screen share anymore to my 2003 DP G5. The internet works on it, but it just stopped "Sharing" -ehhh.
     
  18. eRondeau macrumors 6502a

    eRondeau

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Location:
    Canada's South Coast
    #18
    I know this isn't really helpful, but I've got a PowerMac G5 on my home network along with a dozen other current & vintage Macs. Never had any issues getting them to all talk to each other. In fact my PowerMac G5 doesn't have an Airport card installed, so it gets its internet via ethernet from a nearby iMac that has Airport. Just connect the ethernet cable, turn on Sharing, and away it goes. It really is that easy. If you're having issues it's definitely just a setting on your network preferences.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 4, 2016 ---
     
  19. organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

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    Aug 8, 2016
    #19
    Interesting. Maybe it helps to solve hartleymartin's issue, even though screen sharing is different and connects with vnc://IPADDRESS . When you're talking about screen sharing, your G5 is probably running 10.5 Leopard. Is that right? Are you also trying to connect with 10.11 El Capitan? Is your internet served by "internet sharing" from another Mac or is the G5 connected directly to a router? Did you also do "Filesharing" and it doesn't work anymore, too? If so, can you remember if there were any updates of Mac OS X when it stopped working?

    AFP itself should be in version 3.4 since Mac OS X 10.8 and shouldn't have changed since then. Maybe there were security features introduced in later OSs that prevents networking. For filesharing it could help to test what User Authentication Methods (UAMs) are disabled in El Capitan by default. Apple has a guide to connect to legacy AFP. Don't forget that changing settings will lower security and should be reversed if not needed.
    Another idea is to flush DNS-cache or reboot after network changes. One could also delete old entries in the Mac OS X keychain, to reauthenticate.
    Are you willing to share the OS versions you are using without problems, especially those of the G5 and the directly connected Mac?
     
  20. eRondeau macrumors 6502a

    eRondeau

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    Location:
    Canada's South Coast
    #20
    I'm running the latest version of OS X on all my devices. My Power Mac G5 is running the final version of Leopard (10.5.8) and my late-2012 iMac that's feeding it internet via ethernet is running the current version of El Capitan (10.11.6). Various G3/G4 Mac's on my home network are running Tiger (10.4.11).

    If you don't have install disks for Leopard, you can buy them on Amazon or eBay. Note that you DON'T want OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard" as it's Intel-only; you want OS X 10.5 "Leopard" which is the last OS supporting your Power PC architecture.
     
  21. organicCPU, Sep 5, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016

    organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    #21
    Thank you, that points to the direction that there should be a connection possible between latest El Capitan and Jaguar 10.2.7 by accurate configuring.
    As LC Phil already noted, hartleymartin wants to play Classic Mac OS games on the G5 and therefore will need at least Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger, too. If he wants to upgrade at all.
    If you have activated Internet Sharing on the Mac Pro, then you should set the Router IP Address in the G5 network preferences to the same like the Mac Pro's Ethernet 1 Router IP Address.

    It shouldn't be necessary, but for simplification the G5's and Mac Pro's manually configured Ethernet 2 IP Addresses should begin with the same 3 numbers like the Router IP Address. The 4th numbers should not be in the range of the DHCP server's IP address space (take a look into your router preferences) AND unlike any ending of other manual configured devices on your network.

    Because there is a green light in the Mac Pro's Ethernet 2, it should be configured (almost) accurate. By the way, do you also get a green light in the Mac Pro's Sharing panel -> Filesharing? If yes, what is there written of how you can connect?
     
  22. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    #22
    I'm waiting on an NOS Retail OSX "Tiger" Disc set to arrive. I'll try installing that (not had any luck with download versions for some reason). I am also expecting a MacMini G4 which I am going to also back-date to 10.4.11 for similar gaming.

    I suppose that this is a hazard of dealing with obsolete Macs that requires one to remain patient.

    That said, with 10.2.7 installed, I have been able to play most games as they are mostly for OS9 and so run nicely under classic environment.
     
  23. organicCPU macrumors 6502

    organicCPU

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    Aug 8, 2016
    #23
    That's a good choice and you'll have good performance on a G5, too.
    On a G4 Tiger will even run a bit faster than Leopard does and you could install a Mac OS 9 partition to run Classic Mac OS natively.
    In that case you'll then probably want an additional system extension to access more than 128 GB or so on the volumes.
    If you ever plan to experiment with even more obsolete Macs of the Mac OS 7.x and 8.x era, keep 10.2.7 (or 10.2.8) and install Tiger on a second drive/partition. Jaguar is the last system that fully supports the depreciated AppleTalk protocol for networking. Beginning with Tiger the AppleTalk connectivity was reduced to printers. If you've got the patience to look up those things: http://www.applefool.com/se30/ .
    I guess, by spending a little more time on it, you could also manage to setup filesharing between 10.2.7 and 10.11.6.
    But Tiger is more modern, thus easier to set up and should deliver the same Classic Environment experience you're used to have.
    It would be great to hear if everything works fine like expected then...good luck so far...
     
  24. hartleymartin thread starter macrumors regular

    hartleymartin

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    Jul 15, 2016
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #24
    I'll be installing a DVI switch box so that the PowerMac G5 and the MacPro 3,1 can share my 27" 1080p display on my desk. So far I have just been manually plugging and unplugging the DVI cable, which is getting to be a bit of a pain! The Mac Pro lives on top of the desk, and the G5 sits under the desk. I decided to put the G5 under the desk so that it acts as a small space heater in winter!
    --- Post Merged, Sep 8, 2016 ---
    By the way, the Mac Mini G4 is a no-go. Someone outbid me on eBay at the very last moment. I would like a MacMini G4, but I am not prepared to pay more than $100 (Australian Dollars) including shipping.

    I am also looking at getting one of the Intel Mac Minis that has an optical drive to set it up as a HTPC with my mother's Samsung Smart TV. She likes detective series like Elementary, Endeavour, Inspector Morse, etc. I want to set her up with a HTPC so that she doesn't have to keep hunting through the DVD libraries!
     

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